Balancing th1 and th2

[JennaShi]

I’ve been reading Dr. K’s book, “Why do I still have Thyroid Symptoms when my Lab Tests are Normal,” and in this book he talks about finding which TH you are dominant in and supporting the other so they are balanced. He also mentions vitamin D and Omega fish oil that neutrally supports the immune system and should be taken as well, along with adressing the gut as well as any anemia issues (all under Doctor’s supervision of course). Has anyone done this? Or tried it out?

[nerdess]

Hello,

I have th1 dominance symptoms like most hashi sufferers do. Curcumin and vitamin D supplements do have an anti inflammatory effect on me and make a difference. However I can't do too much since I've noticed that I become prone to kidney stones if I take them everyday.

[Sid_Arthur in reply to nerdess]

Hello Nerdess ;~)

Am wondering how you found out about your Th1 dominance ( - and whether you're in the UK too ?) ?

Also, you ( - & others) dabbling with prohormone "vit D" may like to carefully consider: fearlessparent.org/supplementing-low-vitamin-d-not-so-fast/ - for a basic intro. to the very complex functions, including immunological, of the calcidiol/calcitriol hormonal system. Will be interested to know what you make of this, . . . . . given your proclaimed nerdomhood !

IN PARTICULAR: Calcidiol levels alone, from the KNOWN biochemistry, its clearly reported, are NOT enough to assess what is happening in all of the population all of the time; other presentation and levels of the active calcitriol matter too, it is said !

CONSEQUENCE: Those clinicians without this knowledge ( - essentially ALL in the UK ?) are therefore BOUND to give inappropriate guidance to an identifiable sub-group of the population, whose depleted calcidiol (25D) and relatively elevated calcitriol (1,25D) levels are never reasonably assessed. A strange state of affairs given the reliably reported KNOWN biochemistry - and something to be aware of !

Best wishes,

Sid ;~)

Sat 23 June 2018

PS: Know of the 'Festival of the Spoken Nerd' ? You also may like QED 2018 in Manchester ! Details of both easily found !

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[nerdess in reply to Sid_Arthur]

Hi,

There aren't any specific tests for determining th1, th2 dominance here where I live in Iran. I usualy go by my symptoms .

Thanks for the link was an interesting read. Can calcitriol levels be tested for everyone? I think it would also be interesting if there were studies on the effects of olmesartan on Hashimoto's sufferers?

[Sid_Arthur in reply to nerdess]

Hmmm, . . . . I'd be interested to know how the symptoms differ btwn Th1 and Th2 dominance, . . . . as you're already aware of this.

Pleased you found the F Parent article of interest - its a good preliminary introduction ( - somewhat spoilt by the lengthy comments section with posts by people with pre-conceived ideas and therefore prob. their own agendas too !).

If the biochemistry made sense to you, . . . . . . you may like to wonder how it can be reasonably critiqued, . . . . . as it does seem to be established, and widely recognised as being correct on the whole ( - with finer details too complex to be understood by many, I'd say). An innate immune response CAN (& does) generate calcitriol, thereby reducing calcidiol levels - and the levels of the former can then accumulate if it CAN'T be used as the body intends, leading to chronic inflammation of a variety of types. In such a case, only measuring the calcidiol provides INSUFFICIENT information, . . . . it can be quite readily been deduced !

Where testing is available for calcitriol, it can be done. In the UK, it is rarely done ( - and certainly practically never to establish or rule out this VDR dysfunction). You'll find the refs. listed of interest, esp. the chapter in "Vitamin D: New Research" (2006) and the Blaney et al. paper (2009 - for which the date is misprinted as 209) - refs 9 and 5 in list, respectively.

There are only 4 NHS hospitals in the UK doing the calcidiol test, and I understand one or more of these may BE receiving requests for these from abroad. (Whether possible from Iran, . . . . . I don't know !).

Many may have chosen to start the olmesartan protocol as a trial or 'therapeutic probe' based on the presentation and history, even if a calcitriol test result is not available, I get the impression.

Plenty of leads for you to explore now with this (still too widely unrecognised !) immunological 'dysfunction' including cases of it found ( - or not) with Hasimoto's and a range of other conditions ( - including the Blaney et al. paper).

Happy pondering !

Cheers,

Sid ;~)

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[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to nerdess]

nerdess

Curcumin and vitamin D supplements do have an anti inflammatory effect on me and make a difference. However I can't do too much since I've noticed that I become prone to kidney stones if I take them everyday.

I don't know if you are aware, but when supplementing with Vit D there are important cofactors recommended by the Vit D Council -

vitamindcouncil.org/about-v... - in particular magnesium and Vit K2-MK7. Magnesium helps D3 to work. D3 aids absorption of calcium from food and K2-MK7 directs the calcium to bones and teeth where it is needed and away from arteries and soft tissues where it can be deposited and cause problems such as calcification of arteries and kidney stones, etc. If you don't already take K2 then you may find that if you start supplementing with it you may no longer have the problem of kidneys stones. 90-100mcg K2-MK7 is enough for up to 10,000iu D3.

[JennaShi in reply to SeasideSusie]

Thank you Susie! I will also look at this article. I remembered v K but order K1 instead of K2 🤦🏼‍♀️

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to JennaShi]

JennaShi

K1 aids blood clotting (important to avoid if taking blood thinners) so when taking D3 we need the K2 version.

[JennaShi in reply to SeasideSusie]

Thank you Susie👍

[silverfox7 in reply to nerdess]

Are you taking the co factorsof vit D-K2 and Magnesium? K2 takes the calcium out of your blood and puts it into the teeth and bones so it doesn't form stones. The Magnesium locks it in there.

[nerdess in reply to silverfox7]

Susie and silverfor thank you for pointing out at k2. Seems like this is the missing peice of my puzzle since I've noticed that my teeth are chipping and becoming translucent as well. The only form of k2 I can get here is a combination with vit d and calcium. Better than nothing but a good quality k2 would be much preferred. Do any of you happen to know of a good quality k2 supplement with minimal fillers?

Thanks

[silverfox7 in reply to nerdess]

I take one from Healthspan which is soy free but I read it's better to have capsules-this isn't but the first test I had after starting it my over scale calcium level had dropped back in the normal range sobi know it is doing as it says. I suspect K2 like Vit D needs fat to absorb it so take with most fatty meal.

[JennaShi in reply to silverfox7]

All of your comments are most helpful thank you for sharing your information with us!

[LindaC]

What is Dr K's book... is it who I think it is, Dr M K?

Thanks!

[JennaShi in reply to LindaC]

Hi Linda, it is Dr. Datis Kaharrazian. He wrote a couple books, one in particular about hashimotos.

[LindaC in reply to JennaShi]

Thanks you JennaShi - will check. Best wishes, take care and be well. X

[Marz in reply to LindaC]

His second book - Why Isn't my Brain Working ? - is also a good read - lengthy

[JennaShi in reply to Marz]

I agree! Have you read it fully? I had started but figured it would be good to read book 1 first :)!

[Marz in reply to JennaShi]

Yes - but it is a book you need to keep dipping into for reminders !

[JennaShi in reply to LindaC]

Thank you and to you as well!

[LAHs]

I Jenna, nothing personal intended here but the phrase, "(all under Doctor’s supervision of course)" pushed a few of my buttons. Vitamin C is in oranges and other fruits, you can get Omega fish oil out of fish and anemia can be avoided or fixed by eating red meat (esp liver). All of these things are common sense and we don't need to ask a doctor's permission to do them. When you think your progress is ready to be tested, get a blood test. If a doctor won't do it, do it privately and check it yourself. (True Health Labs out of Georgia via the Internet if you are in the US).

The reason I am so sensitive to this is because most doctors really do not know what they are talking about when it comes to thyroid issues, and while we should be able to trust them for the common sense issues of nutrition - I would still trust but verify/make that, verify and then maybe trust. i.e. DIY.

[Sid_Arthur in reply to LAHs]

. . . . how about editing ol' Ronnie R's (RIP) phrase to:

"Verify, . . . . and therefore trust (or not) !"

;~)

[LAHs in reply to Sid_Arthur]

Sounds good to me - I was just trying not to sound too obnoxious. Personally I don't trust any of 'em but you can't tell everybody that (that's just between you and me right?)

[Sid_Arthur in reply to LAHs]

Reminds me of a saying by one of our Uncle Als, who dabbled with matters like light, gravity . . . . . . . . and something about relatives too ?

When asked what might be infinite, Prof E. is said to have replied:

"Vell, I think there may be two things - a) the universe, . . . . and b) human stupidity . . . . but I am not sure about the first !"

Sadly, in retrospect ( - its said) he cocked up ( - as we all do !) by introducing "the cosmological constant" into his work, so that by his model universe did not continue to expand forever ! Some say it was his biggest error. I personally feel it might have been his choice of barber ! ;~)

To err is "humen", . . . . and sadly at present we can only recruit medical & health practitioners from the pool of these fallible beings we come from, a pool in which all are uniquely & perfectly imperfect in their own way !

Perhaps our telepathic robot companions-to-come will lead us to onward in leaps and bounds, . . . . . . towards a world of rapid diagnosis, treatment, far superior education, spotless home-making, . . . . . . . and a life of loving and leisure. Tempting dream ? (Or, a dystopian hell our puny minds cannot even conceive ?).

Wishing you a Saturday delightful afternoon !

Sid ;~)

23 June 2018

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[LAHs in reply to Sid_Arthur]

Hi Sid,

On the subject of Infinity, the Universe and all that. Do you remember when the world's theoreticians were starting to work it all out. The forward, optimistic Americans said the universe was expanding, the depressive Russian theorists insisted it was contracting while the non committal British luminaries said it was in an oscillating steady state!

Sorry, nothing to do with medics or thyroids, you just rang a distant bell.

[JennaShi in reply to LAHs]

LAHs, I couldnt agree more and have personally had some bad experiences myself in the past with doctors and agree that most often they dont know what they were doing. But has also had good experiences in which swinging both hyper (I had no idea what was going on and was supper spacey at the time) and hypo doctors have helped me get back to normal. Everyone is different and sometimes have different expereinces. I do want to point out this was in his book and what he is obligated to write, as a doctor.

I do also see you point about ordering labs online and supplements with food for nutrients. Im a form believer in food but am having a hard time to absorb nutrients. And as I am learning about what my body needs, i try order tests, this can get expensive paying out of pocket and I do often request tests from the doctor and a majority is cheaper with insurance for me personally.

[Sid_Arthur]

Hi JennaShi,

'Beware of supplementing with (prohormone !) "vit D" based only on measuring one of its (numerous !) metabolites', . . . . . is ONE well reported point of view:

fearlessparent.org/supplementing-low-vitamin-d-not-so-fast/ - I see important parallels between this complex multi-systems hormone, and the also very complex thyroid hormone system.

In this analogy, would it be sufficient ONLY to measure the T4 . . . . . in all cases ? ? ? However, this is the current & QUESTIONABLE widespread practice with the cholecalciferol/calcidiol/calcitriol system, . . . . . . where most commonly ONLY the calcidiol (25(OH)D) is measured. A word to the vigilant-minded: BEWARE !

Hope that helps !

Sid ;~)

24 June 2018

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