Soya and hypothyroid?

[FIT2018]

I've picked up from the forum that gluten free is good but also to avoid soya? If this is the case for hypo, what is the reason (and that puts paid to my vegan diet!)

Any information gratefully received 👍

[waveylines]

Am afraid soya and goitrogen foods interfere with the conversion of the thyroid hormones so have to be avoided. Goitrogen foods such as brocolli, cabbage etc can be eaten but need to be cooked first. So no coleslaw!

Soya am afraid is a big no no!! Sorry....

[FIT2018 in reply to waveylines]

AAARRGGGHHHH!!!!!! (lol) Okayyyy that is massively important info as I eat mostly soya based foods - Thank you for the bad news, I am determined to get to the bottom of this thing and now can plan for a tasty meal of dust and toe nail clippings! Learned a new term Goitrogen today and will now go and read everything on your link... seriously, thanks

[waveylines]

A link:-

btf-thyroid.org/information...

[waveylines]

Sorry to give you the bad news. The link to the btf is not an organisation I am a big fan of but they do sum it up nicely. If you google brassicas and thyroid hormones theres loads on there. Mary Shoman has some good info.

Goitrogens are the harmful agents to the thyroid hormones in the brassicas which are destroyed with heat. Sad really as I like crunch veg!!

[FIT2018 in reply to waveylines]

Thank you, it will be interesting to see now what effect cutting soya from my diet achieves... One of the symptoms I have suffered from for years that I suspect is related to thyroid is cyclic intermittent hearing loss due to pressurisation in the head/ears... I noticed a year ago that if I used soya sauce (which I loved), I would get dizzy spells and positional vertigo, both of which stopped as soon as I cut that out of my diet. Hummmm. So soya products might explain the intermittent nature of this ongoing issue - fingers crossed. In this case, bad news could be very good news!

Thanks for the info

[SmallBlueThing in reply to FIT2018]

Traditional soy sauce is a fermented product, and so considered an acceptable form. Maybe you were getting too much salt?

The traditional (there's that word again) Japanese diet included good sources of iodine, which overcame the goitrogen problems.

A soymilk brand went overboard with including iodine, leading to thyroid health problems for its consumers: theguardian.com/world/2015/...

[greygoose]

Actually, I'm afraid that's not true. Goitrogens - and there are so many of them that I'm sure you don't know you're eating one, half the time - do not affect conversion in any way. What they do is impede the up-take of iodine by the thyroid gland. Iodine, as I'm sure you know, is necessary to make thyroid hormone - one molecule of T4 contains 4 atoms of iodine - so if not enough iodine is taken-up by the gland, there will be less hormone made, making you hypo - that's one of the reasons a goitre forms, to try and absorb more iodine.

If you are on thyroid hormone replacement, this will not affect you. You don't need that iodine to make thyroid hormone - what's more, you will be ingesting more iodine with the thyroid hormone replacement (levo, etc.) And, even if you weren't taking it, you wouldn't be susceptible to all the goitrogens, if any. It's a very individual thing. So, don't hesitate to eat them, cooked or raw.

The difference with soy is that it goes one step further, and stops thyroid hormone being absorbed by the cells. So, this does affect thyroid hormone replacement and not just the thyroid itself. And it will make you more hypo. The idea that you can adjust your dose to make up the difference isn't entirely practical, given the reluctance of the medical profession to actually prescribe the stuff!

There are a lot of misconceptions about goitrogens, I'm afraid.

[FIT2018 in reply to greygoose]

Thanks for that.. makes total sense - I am happy to have found the soya info as I have been eating SO much of it as a vegan, not realising/thinking/looking into this side of things.. I am perfectly able to change my diet and will be interested to see what this does, in combination of an increase in my Levo medication that was prescribed this week. If my ears improve = 12/15 years of ENT specialist time wasted.

Interestingly, since my 1st post (which you kindly responded to in detail) I have been scouring the internet for hearing loss symptom/fullness/tinnitus connections with hypothyroidism and there are now reams of evidence making this connection.. fingers crossed for change as this has been dogging me since... well since the beginning of hypo diagnosis - DOH.

Doctors, ENT consultant specialists,teaching hospitals, the full might of the ENT profession in the UK NEVER thought to ask the question: "Maybe this is connected to his Hypothyroidism... maybe we should check this out"?, no... a brain scan is far more useful...

[greygoose in reply to FIT2018]

That's just typical. No-one ever thinks of thyroid as being responsible in any speciality. They just do not consider it at all - which is one of the disadvantages of the specialist system. Which makes people think that a holistic doctor has to be a good idea! And, in theory, it is. The trouble is that most holistic doctors know nothing about thyroid either! So, I don't know where we go from there.

If it's any consolation, I'll tell you that at the end of last year, I went very deaf. It caused considerable tension in the family as everyone got fed up with having to repeat everything they said. So, in November, I took the plunge and went to see about my ears... taking my daughter to hear for me! lol After a lot of messing about, I finally spent several small fortunes on two hearing aids. I hated them right from the start. The ride home in the car was agony! I never knew my car was so noisy! And the rush-hour traffic was terrifyingly loud! And, I soon discovered that whilst these hearing aids augmented the background noises, I still couldn't hear what anybody was saying to me!!!

So, every week I was back to the... hearing aid man. lol Don't know what his real title is. To have the blessed things adjusted up and down, to try and find the right levels. But, it just wasn't working for me. One night in January, we went out for dinner in what looked like an aéroplane hangar - vast, high and metallic, full of people with loud voices and echoes, and I thought I was going mad! The noise was painful. After that, I didn't really wear them much anymore. Sometimes I would forget them for a week or so.

At the same time, I was tinkering with my dose of T3, experimenting with different supplements, and last night at table, it suddenly occurred to me that I was hearing perfectly well without the hearing aids! I think my hearing has improved by about... 25 %? I still need to have the television up quite loud - why do people mumble so much these days? lol But, normal conversation is getting easier and easier, and I really do think it's the results of getting all my thyroid ducks in a row. It can happen.

[FIT2018 in reply to greygoose]

Wow, that is such a similar story to mine.. Hearing aids on the NHS, but they are not massively helpful as they amplify all the ambient noise as you describe... And my wife turned around the other day to say that I may be deaf, but that she has to cope with living with a deaf person! Fair point.

So I'll let you know how this goes.. It all seems to point in the same direction.. Fingers crossed 💪💪💪

[greygoose in reply to FIT2018]

The hearing aid man said that he had lots of clients who were hypo, and he knew that hypo was the cause of their hearing loss - especially as I didn't fit into any of the other categories : never had a job with noisy machinery; never went to clubs with loud music; etc.

[FIT2018 in reply to greygoose]

Yep.. I have had some tinnitus causing activities but the pressurising ear stuff is something else (try explaining that to a gp)

The main question is whether it will improve as I properly address the hypo side of things, with an actual strategy. All my instincts and research are pointing in that direction.

My audiologist didn't think levo /thyroid was a factor! It's just a minefield out there and I'm pretty sure I will be 'tinkering' myself as you put it... As I make my way along the journey.. Bloods tests etc..

[greygoose in reply to FIT2018]

Audiologist! That's a good word!

Yes, we have to do most of the work ourselves. Doctors, for the most part, just aren't interested!

[BeansMummy in reply to FIT2018]

I wear hearing aids, and my audiologist very firmly blames my Hashimoto’s for it, as I was too young for natural ageing hearing loss.

I have to say that decent hearing aids do not amplify all the other sounds as others have described. My first ones did - they’re the sort where a mould is made to exactly fit your ear, horrible things. The decent ones, also available on the NHS, have a small bud which fits inside your ear, attached to a thin tube, which fits over the ear. My hearing is now like any other normal person, no amplification or anything.

[Mamapea1 in reply to greygoose]

Agree with everything you've said here👍The hearing aids make as much annoying noises as the tinnitus ~ no help at all😕. I also have the TV on loud (and subs if it something good), but the mumbling and poor recording (or dubbing, or whatever), really doesn't help😳. Hearing people have even complained about it.

What WOULD have helped is being listened to 10 years ago when I told GP I thought my head pressure/tinnitus etc. was due to still being hypo. She increased Levo to 300mcg, (which made me feel even more 'poisoned') and packed me off to audiologist for hearing aids! No mention of my low B12, etc., or T3! I despair! 😨 xx

[greygoose in reply to Mamapea1]

Yes, they don't seem to teach actors to speak in drama school, anymore. I don't exactly expect Henry Irving, but a few more Judy Denchs would be nice! She actually moves her lips when she speaks!

So to being listened to by doctors, don't get me started on that! I think a few of them need hearing aids!

[Mamapea1 in reply to greygoose]

Interesting point ~ I CAN actually hear when I go to the theatre👍although I do tend to sit near the front because I can't see either lol! Oh dear, the blind leading the deaf! lol!😄 True though, lots of mumbling with no lip movements ~ perhaps they'd be better as ventriloquists.🙊. Yes, I think I will suggest hearing aids to my GP if I ever see her again ~ wish I'd thought of it at the time ~ they would have been much more use in HER ears than mine! 😃 xx

[FIT2018 in reply to Mamapea1]

I'm just staggered that so many people are going through this noisy hell.. I'm determined to try and reverse the hearing loss and tinnitus as much as possible. I know this is a possible dream because I have good and bad days.. and I find that going to the gym often "clears" my blocked ears... So rabidly on this now as the added torture for 15 years has been the ceaseless and unanswered question 'why is this weird stuff happening to me? "

[waveylines in reply to greygoose]

Thats interesting greygoose why do all the big thyroid sites including thyroid uk tell you to avoid them then..... unless you cook them? Am confused.....though Ive a feeling we have had this conversation before....

[greygoose in reply to waveylines]

Probably have! lol I think it's the same thing as I was saying the other day about rT3. That's the way we used to think, but since then, there has been new research that show it isn't so. But, not everybody is up to date with new ideas. Yes, that used to be the way we understood it. I used to tell people they should cook their goitrogens. But, how many people cook strawberries? Now, we know better.

[Nanaedake]

An interesting article here about how soy supports bone health but has a detrimental effect on thyroid. researchgate.net/publicatio...

[Angel_of_the_North]

I am a gluten-free, soya-free vegan, so it doesn't put paid to anything. Just eat real, unprocessed food. If it isn't the way it grew - leave it alone. Soya is both a goitrogen that stop thyroid hormone from working properly and a plant oestrogen and oestrogen binds thyroid hormone. You might get away with a little miso or natto or wheat-free tamari (all fermented, which mitigates many of the problems), but most soy products are highly processed junk food.

[FIT2018 in reply to Angel_of_the_North]

Thanks, I have formulated a plan , you are right, just takes a bit more effort

[SlowDragon Administrator]

I have just read through your previous post

Has GP agreed to test vitamin D, folate, ferritin and B12?

As on vegan diet, what supplements do you take?

Low B12 and tinnitus are strongly linked. Obviously with vegan diet B12 supplements usually recommended

B12 needs to be near top orange, folate similar. Ferritin at least half way in range

Vitamin D around 100nmol

Soya is to be strictly avoided including soya lecithin as well

thyroidpharmacist.com/artic...

[FIT2018 in reply to SlowDragon]

Thanks, I have indeed requested test for these nutrient test (I printed out your previous posts!).

I in fact take no supplements, which is probably not a great idea, but although vegan, I eat a wide variety of fresh and home cooked foods - nothing processed ... other than soya! (no longer) - In fact my wife runs a healthy/vegan food business, so no issues with access to healthy food there.

It's actually amazing how much soya crops up in processed foods, lecithin etc... Hard to avoid the pesky stuff.

I am indeed thinking of taking a B vitamin supplement because of the tinnitus, but am holding back until I get the blood taken on Wednesday, as I am interested to see what the picture is without supplements/on a higher dose of Levo.

Will post the results when they come in and take things from there including all supplementation.

My strategy is to now eliminate all the known antagonists possible, get a full spectrum test view of the situation, see what the GP suggests... especially if the hospital refuses to do a T3 test - if they do = private test and then back to GP and insist on endo referral if T3 is needed and he won't help... in the meantime, use/add any needed supplements that show up in test to new diet. If tests show I need T3, I will see if I can get that prescribed - if not... well I'll cross that bridge if I get there.

Thanks for your comments and information

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to FIT2018]

Yes definitely no supplements before testing.

We are what are our gut absorbs, not what we eat.

[Mamapea1 in reply to FIT2018]

I'm sure your diet is excellent but as a vegan you absolutely have to take B12 ~ I'm sure you've seen this on vegan sites such as the vegan society, etc. I was a vegetarian for over 20 years (I also ate a lot of soy, unfortunately), and 2 of my daughters are vegan and have been for a long time. They also have a very healthy organic diet.

They both take B12 and B complex. One of them got seriously depressed recently, and was prescribed antidepressants ~ it turned out she hadn't been taking her B12 regularly! She is now fine ~ it can also play a major role in tinnitus🙉 ~ check out symptoms on here, and the PA site👍

I was always told my B12, folate, Vit D levels were FINE, but since acquiring my medical notes I can see they were anything but! In fact, the B12 tests that my GP did are completely useless, and I ended up being VERY deficient and developed terrible tremors ~ I shook uncontrollably and my family thought I had something even more terrible!

A folate deficiency EVENTUALLY showed up, and as soon as I followed advice from this forum💕and began taking B12, folate and B complex, the shaking stopped, despite the fact I still have adrenal problems, which I'd put it down to.

As far as I know, apart from PA, it can be caused by diet, (particularly vegan) deficiencies in other vits/minerals (Vit D etc.), being hypothyroid and having gut issues which can prevent absorption.

Anyway, my long and somewhat drawn out point is, I suggest after your tests, you investigate this and start on some supplements ~ there are loads of vegan ones to choose from ~ we use Better You mouth spray for the B12, but there's lots of good ones available🌻🐝

[BeansMummy]

I’m vegetarian, not vegan, but manage very well to avoid gluten and soya. I cook from scratch, just decent (organic-where-possible) food, and it is all doable. Good luck!