Thyroid and adrenals and conflicting advice.

[Jollypolly]

..HOW MANY people are confused with what seems like conflicting advice....

You just get settled on thinking you kind of understand something,..and you are implementing that understanding as best you can...you gain confidence thinking you are on the right road and then OOPS ! You read yet another thing which appears to contradict what you think you know, or, at the least, tempers it with ifs, buts and maybes.

Everything re Thyroid and Adrenals seems to be so very complicated ,.and indeed subject to so many opinions. All the experts sound authoritative enough. Not all the advice concurs though.

Dr PEATFIELD has his very good book with advice...S T T M is a great book too ...and you get into Dr Rind and start using his method for determining thyroid/ adrenal status and thus adjusting medication and supps accordingly...

And then you come across Dr Lam..and he gives warnings aplenty about the use of glandulars and herbs etc...

Unless you are wealthy..

What do you do ?

It’s all very unsettling...and brings your confidence down ..

Has anyone worked all through this sort of thing and managed to work out how to get it right ....

Answers on a postcard....

Would love to hear from anyone who has made some sense of it all and can offer good ideas.

Thanks.

[shaws]

I know two doctors - one of whom believes adrenals have to be sorted out (I assume if you've been ill for a long time) and another who believes the adrenals sort themselves out once you are prescribed and gradually get to an optimum of meds.

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to shaws]

I personally found the second option true, but not until gluten free and vitamins optimal, as well as correct thyroid medication

[Jollypolly in reply to shaws]

I suppose you aren’t allowed to mention names are you ? I’d b interested in the doctor who thinks adrenals need sorting...if not first, at least in conjunction with thyroid. With Dr P not around, I feel on my own ..

[Kazbe in reply to Jollypolly]

Hi Jollypolly

I've recently seen Dr P, well last year and was following his instructions but as you say he's in hospital and very unwell! I felt panic immediately but I posted my worries and symptoms on here and the response was brilliant ! I still feel very unwell I think it's my Adrenals and Cortisol I'm thinking of going to another NHS Endo out of area or reluctantly paying private for tests and guidance !

The people on here have been a god send to me so ask the questions there always someone who will help you on here.

Take care

Kazbe 😀

[Jollypolly in reply to Kazbe]

Thanks Kazbe...

Yes, I totally understand,...it is extremely difficult knowing which way to turn...I do wish you well...

Are you on NDT ?

[Kazbe in reply to Jollypolly]

Hi Jollypolly

I'm still struggling on with Levo I started Adrenavive and then Metavive but I think the Adrenavive made me worst because I have high cortisol! Then the Metavive made me feel so undermedicated I had to start back in the Levo 😔 I am desperate to try NDT but I have Hashimotos and gut issues or T3 I'm Just very nervous buying online and self medicating! If I can get a reliable source I will do a trial and hopefully start my road to recovery.

Wishing you well

Kazbe 😀

[Jollypolly in reply to Kazbe]

Hi Kazbe

It’s hard to know what to say but I’d like to say something useful !

I do really think you need to get on NDT... I get it fro my gp on the NHS !! Yes ... it’s a wonder isn’t it ...

Could you get your go to prescribe it for you ?? Probably not...I’m travelling at the moment .. so bear with ... I may write again if I have SOMETHING WORTH SAYING !

[Jollypolly in reply to shaws]

Would you please give me the name of the doc who thinks adrenals will follow thyroid ? Thanks..

[Jollypolly in reply to shaws]

Hi Shaws

May I ask what you personally think of the above ? Do you take any adrenal support ? If so ..what ? Or what did you take?

Best wishes

Jollypolly

[Marz]

Good T3 levels for Adrenals resonated with me .... and Vit C. ☺

[Jollypolly]

Right...I’m trying to interpret that....

I’m on NDT...but I have indeed found it to be true that compromised adrenals prevent one’s being able to raise the dose...it’s only since I’ve been on adrenal cortex for some time that I have been able to raise from two grains to two and a quarter grains..and I somehow doubt I can raise anymore unless adrenals get stronger,,.

But reading Dr Lam rather pulls the rug from under your feet..giving the idea that you need personalised, Specialist help to sort out adrenals, and that it’s possibly damaging to be on too much cortex, say, and other adrenal helps, for too long.

I was told, conversely, , that I may need some cortex all my;life....what do you believe ?

It’s difficult and confusing don’t you think ..

[BadHare in reply to Jollypolly]

I couldn't afford any specialist help or private blood tests, as it was a choice of either one or the meds.

Fortunately, the medication made a difference so I didn't need to pay anyone, I just followed the best practice advice on here re what, when & how, with caution. What not to do re food & supplement clashes came a bit later. I've never medicated specifically for adrenals, despite extreme stress for decades, as the THs seemed to help with that too, especially with regard to improving sleep. However, I do make an effort to ensure my nutrient intake is good from food, & take micronutrients that I may be missing from my diet, as well as ensuring I keep my gut bacteria happy with pre & probiotics, & avoiding processed muck.

[Jollypolly in reply to BadHare]

Hi Badhare...

thanks for your reply..it’s interesting ...

I am having to manage myself now...had three private doctors..the only one that led me on to anything good was Dr PEATFIELD...he got me on adrenal cortex...and indeed it seems to help quite a lot...

but ive started reading Dr Lam and he warns of all the pitfalls of cortex and the like.

Dr P is out of action ....but anyway...I feel I’m on my own..and I reckon most people in our stat feel like that .

Treating the adrenals seems to be one of the hardest things....

The subject raises its head when you get onto natural dessixated thyroid and you try and raise to a better dose..

AND YOU FIND YOU CANT ! And then you learn it’s your adrenals...

Like you..I have had a lifetime of terrible stress...I’m 68 and happily married ,

but years of extreme stress since I was born...very extreme bad things in the family growing up...and then latterly as an adult ...all this has I’m sure weakened the adrenals...and boy it’s difficult to break these habits of the body and mind..

And certainly stress is like a habit...though not a chosen one.

So it’s all very tricky isn’t it....but am glad you are managing so well by yourself...well done ! You’re definitely doing the right things.

All the best .

Prettypolly

[Jollypolly in reply to Jollypolly]

To the that fact I feel on my own sorting out my Adrenal and thyroid problems..I should have also said...

IM NOT TOTALLY ALONE BEXAUSE OF THE WONDERFUL HELP AND SUPPORT FROM MEMBERS OF HEALTH UNLOCKED,..

THE HELP OFFERED IS NO MEAN THING...

THE MUTUAL SUPPORT AND CAMARADERIE IS UPLIFTING...AND THERE ARE SOME INTELLIGENT PEOPLE WHO GIVE GIVE VERY SOUND ADVICE,,

THANKS TO EVERYONE !

[BadHare in reply to Jollypolly]

I could hug everyone on here that's helped me over the past thee years as it's changed my life so much for the better!

[BadHare in reply to Jollypolly]

Hi Jollypolly ,

Dr P certainly soinds like a good'un, whenever I see him mentioned, it's positively. If it's working for you, then go along with his advice, unless your gut instincts & symptoms tell you otherwise. Every doctor's got different opinions, & there's no one size fits all with health or medicine, certainly not with the vagaries of our hormones!

I went straight on to NDT, & only tried T3 a year later. My issue is from a pituitary adenoma, rather than primary hypothyroidism, or hashimoto's. I've had to go with what feels ok for me between seasons, though I raised my NDT to 2.5 grains, which feels approximately the same as three 25mcg T3, but with more perks. I'm currently fine on 75% T3 to 25% NDT in winter as my skin & metabolism need a boost, & just T3 in summer. The type of NDT has been important, with WP being best, NT fine, & an itching reaction to Thyroid S & severe itching & burning from Thyro-Gold, & disturbed sleep with both the latter. If I'd tried either of those first, I'd probably have given up in a few weeks on a quarter grain. There's currently less choice, but perhaps a change in brand or make might allow you to raise dose effectively if you still feel you need more & the adrenal cortex isn't helping.

Mel

[Jollypolly in reply to BadHare]

Hi Mel..

Interesting post...

As it happens I am on WP and do feel confidence in it...Dr P likes it too...though I do have a slightly itchy neck every day...don’t know why.

Al the best

prettypolly

[BadHare in reply to Jollypolly]

I've always been itchy, & have very sensitive skin, but the effect of the Thyro-Gold was unbearable on even a tiny dose, & the Thyroid S was enough to scratch all night.

I'm rationing what I have left at half a grain of WP a day in the hope it'll last till there's more available, though the chance of that in a month is looking unlikely. I felt ok on the old NT, so hope I find the new version alright, too.

[shaws in reply to Jollypolly]

Dr Skinner stated the adrenals sort themselves out when optimally on thyroid hormones. The 10,000 testimonials the GMC received of the help/assistance/care Dr S did for them and made them well, speaks for itself.

[Jollypolly in reply to shaws]

Thanks...well..yes..but the problem is getting your thyroid dose optimal when your adrenals aren’t happy...it’s a vicious cycle it seems to me...I wonder what he advocated in that situation ? Any ideas ?

[shaws in reply to Jollypolly]

I saw both and looking back and with the problems I had, I now believe the main problem was caused by levothyroxine and as I was incapable of believing that a medication could make you feel much worse.

We're willing to try anything at all but when I took Adrenal Xtra my palpitations increased so I stopped A Extra. I was diagnosed when TSH 100 so was very unwell anyway. It took years for me to find a solution but as we have the forum now there's lots of answers/questions of how members recovered or are improving. If doctors or endocrinologists haven't a clue, how are we to follow their instructions?

[Jollypolly in reply to shaws]

Well I’m glad you DID find your solution ...wonderful !

I’m on NDT..every time I try to raise I get problems sleeplessness, fast heart rate and generally not much good...

I HAVe managed to get to 2.25 grains with help of Adrenavive..but feel I need to go higher. Will just have to try it very slowly indeed .

[shaws in reply to Jollypolly]

2.25 gr is a reasonable dose. Do you take once daily or split doses. Dr Lowe also states we have to look at other factors. I only have three episodes but you might find them helpful. You will have to copy/paste the link to open the tinyurl.

Chapter 2

tinyurl.com/ya5blrr2

Chapter 3

tinyurl.com/y7ejh9sh

Chapter 7

tinyurl.com/ycxpz565

[Jollypolly in reply to shaws]

Thanks very much for this I shall look at them

I take 1 and quarter grain at six and one at two pm...

[shaws in reply to Jollypolly]

You might find the following link helpful, particularly the ones dated July 15, 2006 and January 30, 2002.

The reason is that Dr L's patients took NDT at a starting dose once daily and every week or two added 1/4 tablet to their dose and so on until they were free of clinical symptoms. Taking pulse and temp before beginning. If either went too high they dropped back to previous dose.

web.archive.org/web/2010103...

[Jollypolly in reply to shaws]

Hi Shaws

Thanks for this...chapter three works but no 2 and 7 doesn’t..is it my iPad ...or could you send again and I’ll try again ?

Thanks.

[shaws in reply to Jollypolly]

I will try again. These links are now archived which may mean they will suddenly disappear.

web.archive.org/web/2010103...

web.archive.org/web/2010112...

[jgelliss in reply to Jollypolly]

Adrenals need to be up to par before T3 can be dosed . I found when I dosed with any T3 /NDT it unmasked adrenal insufficiency . Adding Vitamin "C" as Martz said in addition vitamin B-5 and Celtic Sea Salt . DHEA needs to be tested too if it's low . Lots of rest and going to sleep early is very helpful .

[Jollypolly in reply to jgelliss]

Thanks very much for this..very helpful...trying various things...will see how it goes.

[jgelliss in reply to Jollypolly]

Jollypolly

Granted It's not an easy road . It's a slow road to recovery . Persistence will get you to your optimal . This book helped me loads .

Adrenal Fatigue: The 21st Century Stress Syndrome .

amazon.com/Adrenal-Fatigue-...

[Danielj1]

forefronthealth.com/hypothy...

If you want the edited resume :

Remove all PUFA - far more important than anything else

Stabilise blood sugar

Address cortisol and estrogen and repair liver -magnesium oil is a good start

There are other articles from forefront on this and why do I follow them - because they are backed up with loads of research and they actually work

There are other things you can do and I started with this article and made plenty of progress.

Good luck !

[Jollypolly in reply to Danielj1]

Thanks for this DANIEL...will look at the link properly tomorrow...

tell me..what is PUFA ?

Best wishes,

Prettypolly

[Danielj1 in reply to Jollypolly]

forefronthealth.com/worst-f...

Better than I can explain - if I was only allowed to do one thing, giving up PUFA is the one I would do.

Poly unsaturated fatty acids

[Hillwoman]

Your own comments and those of BadHare about the effect of long term stress and trauma on adrenal health certainly chime with me, and I've seen the connection mentioned on the forum several times over the years.

I've found it hard to raise my T3 since I found I had very low cortisol throughout the day. I've just had to do it very, very slowly. Dr P advised Nutri Adrenal Extra when I first started seeing him way back in 2006, but that's no longer available. Neither that nor HC made more than a marginal difference. My other private doc, Sarah Myhill, advised taking pregnenolone, which made me feel much better - at least initially. Correcting nutritional deficiencies and taking plenty of Vit C seems to have helped generally.