How can I introduce Armour thyroid or NDT while I am on 50mcg Levothyroxine?Which is best Armour or NDT?Need advice

[Ari3]

Hi there,

Right I been on 50mcg Levothyroxine since start of January now .After I started this medication my joints and muscles started to hurt after a week of using this crap.It is slowly destroying my life my moves .I go now to the stairs with so much pain and difficulty (iam 31 and never had joint or muscle pains in my life or before starting this medication) .I am having endo appoitment in 7th March but on first appoitment I told him that Iam having pain which is going worse he said that can’t be side effect from Levothyroxine which I think is completely wrong.this medication has improved me a tiny bit but side effects and sadness iam going through is just affecting my daily life.These pains are killing me all over the body my wrists back bone shoulders neck my feet and feet joints are so much agony ;( nothing has improved or lessened.I remember when I was on almus Levothyroxine 50mcg I had exactly the same problem even worse when I went away from those I literary had such a relief all pains in muscles and joints were gone but of course all the hypo symptoms came back.iam on a mercurypharma and same thing me and hubby have decided to self medicate with Armour or NDT just wondered how to introduce them in my body slowly what is the best way?how much Armour or NTD should I take in grains to start with ?should I start with smaller dose first and than gradually build up?how does it work? Which is best Armour or NDT? We can get them from US so will need to wait for a bit to arrive! I can’t see any other explanation of these pains .Also one day I didn’t take 50mcg I straight away felt reduction of muscle pains ! Is this cooinsidence or is it me?i have read that many people can’t tolarate Levothyroxine maybe iam one of them because in side effects and warnings are muscle and joint pain.Actually with joint pain it says to go to hospital emergency.Can Simone share they expierence of self medication and tell me what and how should I start this? Many thank you and sorry for such a long post

[Mary-intussuception]

The fourth line of your post, your reference to Levothyroxine :

. . . since using this **** . . . .

How offensive to the many of us who take Levothyroxine every day.

You used to blame the Levothyroxine for Diarrhoea.

Levothyroxine has a five day life. So symptoms experienced the same day as omitting it, wouldn't be anything to do with the Levothyroxine. Read the leaflet. In the e event of an accidental overdose it lists symptoms that may occur over the next 4 - 5 days (or something like that).

Should be 75mcg by now anyway.

You need to talk to your Endocrinologist.

Might also want look into your nutrients deficiencies.

[Ari3 in reply to Mary-intussuception]

I didn’t mean to offence anyone or any medication it’s just iam in so much pain and I don’t know what else to do?! How can I keep taking medicine which makes me so ill with joint n muscle pains I can’t function now properly I feel iam falling apart

[Mary-intussuception in reply to Ari3]

You don't know what's causing the pain.

Keep going back to your doctor. Seek an urgent referal to Rheumatologist and or Orthopaedics.

[Mary-intussuception in reply to Ari3]

What dose of Vitamin D are you taking now?

You once had Vitamin D deficiency and now it is 85? When was it last tested?

Is your daily maintenance dose 1000 IU?

I think the daily maintenance dose is for life isn't it?

[Ari3 in reply to Mary-intussuception]

I am taking now 1200iU daily .my previous endo told me actually up it 2000Iu which I think is way too much .I was vitamin d difiiciant years ago was like les than 25 but now it is 86 which is improving I guess.

Iam not sure how much is daily maintenance I think it’s around 800iu as far as I have read .i will be testing those again soon but 86 was like couple of weeks ago.my frettin needs increase it has gone to 49 now and was 29 so I keep having liver once a week minimum.i also take perfectil vitamins .magnesium oil spray daily .Also what I have done is I ordered a home kit for testing my food intolerance and vitamin mineral testing included.I don’t have gluten now in my diet nor milk like cheese etc nor soy I try to avoid these foods as I have Hashimoto my thyroid antibodies were 344.I also read book about Hashimoto disease and how to minimise or even reverse it by changing diet and excluding toxins as much as I can chemicals .Today I will have my blood results for TSH ,ft4 and ft3 in my hand .I also am on 50mcg for quite a while now .

[Mary-intussuception in reply to Ari3]

Ayesha

The daily maintenance dose is at least 800 IU but can be 1000 or 2000 so yours seems OK. If you just had it tested I don't think you need to retest after only several weeks. You could leave it longer.

If you are on prescribed Vitamin suppements should you be taking multivitamins as well ? You maybe taking too many of some? You've done well with your Ferritin. It's higher than mine!

I'm not familiar with Perfectil.

If you are still having severe symptoms then I would keep going back to GP and ask your husband to go with you.

[Ari3 in reply to Mary-intussuception]

Today I also got a report from my endo and he is willing to help me with any other options Armour NDT etc t3 if other options won’t help me .i have constipation muscle pain and joint pain(this came just when I started Levothyroxine I never had pains and aches in my life ) dry hands and at times cold hands too muscle weakness I sleep more or less alright I don’t wake up at nights .At times I get flattering heart or skipped a beat which makes me worid.

[Mary-intussuception in reply to Ari3]

Ayesha - you didn't answer about why you are taking "multivitamins" as well as prescribed supplements.

I have looked up Perfectil and will put reply on your most recent post thread. I wouldn't take it.

[Hidden in reply to Mary-intussuception]

Daily maintenance dose is not for life. As our bodies change over time any med dosages we are on can also change. That's why lab tests are repeated from time to time-to see if our treatment incl medication and/or dosages also need to take a new direction. No medical care is static.

[Hidden in reply to Ari3]

Hi Ari. I have had the same problem with levothyroxine. Muscle aches and pains so bad one doc told me I had fibromyalgia. I don't. Am in the process of trying to find a way to get off the levo. Don't be disheartened by anyone who dismisses your sx. All meds work well for some and not for others. Stick to your guns as you know how you feel. I believe others who are doing well on meds that we don't handle well should understand we are not criticizing any one else's choices-just trying to find a way to feel better. A little compassion for patients still suffering is a good thing but sometimes hard to have when one is feeling fine and not wearing our shoes. Ignore criticism and keep on searching. Hoping you find solutions and begin to feel better soon. Take care. irina1975 (US)

[Ari3 in reply to Hidden]

Thank you it’s good to know that there is somebody who has the same problems.I have stopped Levothyroxine now for five days and guess what-the pain in muscles and joints are easing offf omg I feel so much better now I can not thank to God!ai was thinking that what is wrong with me and I was crying every single day! Now I have started to self medicated with Thiroyd and feel so much better even on a small dose.I have started with 1/4 grain now just to see what happens and slowly increase.i am so happy I left Levothyroxine this was the worse nightmare in my life.I emailed to my private endo Secretary saying that I can’t drink this medication it is poisoning me .I had such cramps in stomach so sharp don’t talk about joint n muscle pains (cracking sound) I do still have them as Levothyroxine will take some time to go off from my body(not sure how long) and my endo have said that I must stop this medication which I did.I still suffer hypo symptoms a lot but iam much better than I was trust me .We will see how NDT will work on me ! need just patience .Iam having endo appoitment next Friday ! Thank you once more for sharing your experience with me and it’s good to know that iam not the only one! What medication you will try now and how do you think to come off Fromm levoth? Do you have endocrinologist with whom you consultate? Is he understanding?My GP are totally nutters so they don’t get this all they have no clue about this illness or Hashimoto.I had to ready books myself and study be on this site -Thanks this site and people for support big or small doesn’t matter !I explained gp that Iam having side effects from a Levothyroxine he never heard of it and send me to reumotologist.

[Hidden in reply to Ari3]

Hi Ari. Thanks for telling me your experience. I have just about decided that when I see my PCP/GP in 2 weeks if it does not go well about getting off the levo (and I'm not hopeful) I am going to strike our on my own with NDT. I am armed with info from reading every related post I could find here and am ready for "battle". I plan to tell her before the visit is over that I will stop the levo on my own and try another way. She is a good doc in other ways and unless she 'fires' me I will keep her as my primary. I have disagreed with some of my other docs at times and done things my way. It has usually turned out well because I always tell them what I'm doing and keep them in the loop, I think they appreciate that tho I try to be honest and above board I will still do what I think is best. I try to be polite and not critical-just approach as a difference of opinion. So hopefully my visit with her will be positive. I don't want to try and find an endo that may agree with me. I'm 74 (on Mar 23) and Idon't want to start the 'hit or miss search for the right doctor' Too much wasted time. I want to get on with my own plan. PS I would skip the rheumatologist if it were me. I'm in the US and the odds are he/she would order more meds/tests for the aches and pains. Meaning more side effects and poisonous ingredients to the mix. REALLY! Doctors really hate it sometimes when we search online but really the internet is just a form of visual education (Like books) which is how we all learned anyway! irina1975

[Clutter]

Ari3,

Have you tried different makes of Levothyroxine to see whether that makes a difference. There are 4 makes in the UK. Ask your pharmacist to dispense a different make when your next prescription is due.

There is no 'best' NDT. You may have try several brands to see which suits you best.

Armour is the most expensive, NatureThroid, Acella NP and Erfa more affordable. Thai NDT Thyroid-S and Thiroyd are the least expensive NDT.

3/4 grain (45mg) is equivalent to 50mcg Levothyroxine.

[Ari3 in reply to Clutter]

Thank you for your ideas and answers .I have been on Levothyroxine 50mcg (but I have change and lowered the dosages during two months course which was my mistake ) but now for three weeks have been continues on 50mcg my blood results are :

18january

Tsh 9.8 ( 0.3-5.5)

T4 12.6 (12.00-22.00)

T3 4.3 (3.1-6.8)

After that did another bloods on 08 February

Tsh 6.42

T4 13.9

T3 4.5

My question is how do I or will I know if I convert efficiently t4 to t3?

Also could you advice me on my vitamin levels and minerals I took on 11 January:

Vitamin d 86.38 (>50)

Ferritin 49.61(15.00-150.00) currently eating liver once per week and spinach is in my diet too to increase levels .i used to be 29 two months ago.trying to increase my diet .

B12\folate :B12 636(191.00-663.00)

Folate >20.0(3.90-26.80)

Iron 22.4(6.60-26.00)

Liver function -normal(they did all liver function panel with results and ranges ) it’s a long list

Full blood count -normal ( again too many numbers )

Please could u comment where the improvement is needed if any!

Many thanks for your help and time x

[Clutter in reply to Ari3]

Ari3,

You won't know what sort of conversion you have until you are optimally dosed. Currently you are undermedicated on 50mcg to have TSH 6.42 and should request a dose increase.

The goal of Levothyroxine is to restore the patient to euthyroid status. For most patients that will be when TSH is 0.2 - 1.0 with FT4 in the upper range. FT4 needs to be in the upper range in order that sufficient T3 is converted. Read Treatment Options in thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/about_... Email [e-mail] if you would like a copy of the Pulse article to show your GP.

VitD, B12, folate and iron are good.

Ferritin is optimal halfway through range and yours has increased well in 2 months. Keep eating well.

[Ari3 in reply to Clutter]

Thank you Wishing you well Clutter X if iam allergic or still have joint pains on optimal dose of Levothyroxine can I go to pharmacy and tell them to give me different brand? Can I go to pharmacy and ask what brands they do because most likely they send electronically to Morrisons pharmacy (u will know if u r uk baced) or should I go to different pharmacies and ask for other make?what makes do they do could u please name them in uk?

[Clutter in reply to Ari3]

Ari3,

You can ask the pharmacist to change your make of Levothyroxine any time you present a new prescription. There are 4 brands in the UK:

Mercury Pharma 25mcg, 50mcg & 100mcg

Actavis (also known as Almus and NorthStarr) 50mcg & 100mcg

Wockhardt 25mcg

Teva 12.5mcg, 25mcg, 50mcg, 75mcg & 100mcg

If Morrisons can't order in an alternative to the one you are taking ask for the prescription back and take it to a different pharmacy.

[Ari3 in reply to Clutter]

I have also Hashimoto and thyroid antibodies 344 (0-50) and serum thyroglobulin level-not indicates no clinical details patient has got thyroid cancer.

My muscle aches and joint pains are easing down but some days they r terrible does it mean maybe I have to continue Levothyroxine till optimal dose and than see if they r gone completely? I got still sometimes buzzing in my head but they now come n go not as much as I had it was all the time buzzing and ringing in my ears.Also my eye pain has gone and lesser dry skin hairs are a bit falling still and constipation still.Endo told me to continue Levothyroxine 50mcg till I see him and bring him fresh bloods on 7th March and than we will go from there.Iam getting here and there acne and spots on my jaw line could it be related of hypothyroidism symptoms or could it be from Levothyroxine?will it settle down?

[Clutter in reply to Ari3]

Ari3,

What do you mean "not indicates no clinical details patient has got thyroid cancer."?

Elevated thyroid peroxidase and/or thyroglobulin antibodies indicates autoimmune thyroid disease (Hashimoto's). There is no cure for Hashimoto's which causes 90% of hypothyroidism. Levothyroxine treatment is for the low thyroid levels it causes. Many people have found that 100% gluten-free diet is helpful in reducing Hashi flares, symptoms and eventually antibodies. 100-200mcg selenium may also help support thyroid.

chriskresser.com/the-gluten...

thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/about_...

Your aches and pains could be due to undermedication. You're not going to know whether it is undermedication or Levothyroxine causing your symptoms until you are optimally dosed.

[Ari3 in reply to Clutter]

U r well informed Clutter thank u for ur feedback this website has given me so much like never before !

[Ari3 in reply to Clutter]

It says on my blood test sheet

Serum thyroglobulin level-Thyroglobulin not indicated -no clinical details to suggest patient has thyroid cancer.Throglobulin measent only indicated to monitor patients with thyroid cancer.

[Clutter in reply to Ari3]

Ari3,

That's fine. Thyroglobulin is usually only measured in thyCa patients after thyroidectomy.

[Ari3 in reply to Clutter]

Thank you so much once again and God bless u x