High antibodies feedback please

[KBL6]

New here and I have high antibodies?

TPO antibodies 271 (<34)

TG antibodies 358.3 (<115)

Advice please

[shaws Administrator]

Welcome to our forum,

You have an Autoimmune Thyroid Disease called Hashimoto's due to having high antibodies.

You need a TSH, T4, T3, Free T4, Free T3 test too. If in UK, GP usually only does TSH and T4. There is two private labs which will do the ones GP wont.

If you are having a test it should always be at the earliest, fasting (you can drink water) and if you were taking thyroid hormone replacement you'd allow a gap of 24 hours from last dose and test.

Some doctors, if the TSH is in a 'normal' range wont prescribe levothyroxine. According to an ex President of the BTA, when antibodies are present they should prescribe. For a copy of an article in Pulse Online by Dr Toft which confirms a prescription should be issued, email [e-mail] and ask for a copy.

[KBL6 in reply to shaws]

Thanks I take thyroid medication and I feel no better on it. Diagnosed 2013

[shaws Administrator]

Two links for you:

thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/about_...

thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/about_...

[KBL6]

I also supplement but feel no better on these either

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to KBL6]

If you post all your results, with reference ranges, and say what you are taking/doses then members can comment.

[KBL6 in reply to SeasideSusie]

On this thread?

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to KBL6]

Yes, keep it all together, less confusing when there's only one thread.

[KBL6 in reply to SeasideSusie]

TSH 7.4 (0.2 - 4.2)

FREE T4 13.7 (12 - 22)

FREE T3 3.4 (3.1 - 6.8)

Taking 150mcg levothyroxine, felt better with T3 added

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to KBL6]

KBL6

You are currently very undermedicated to have such a high TSH and low free Ts.

Ok, so you've had T3 given, had it taken away, give us the details.

Results when you were on Levo plus T3, why was it taken away and by whom.

And what about the supplements which you say aren't helping, post those details too. The more information we have, the more we can help.

[KBL6 in reply to SeasideSusie]

Thanks I had T3 taken away by endo due to thyrotoxic results and my results before this was

TSH <0.02 (0.2 - 4.2)

FREE T4 20.6 (12 - 22)

FREE T3 5.6 (3.1 - 6.8)

I was taking 100mcg levo and 10mcg T3

Vitamins and minerals

FERRITIN 31 (30 - 400)

FOLATE 2.8 (4.6 - 18.7)

VITAMIN B12 183 (180 - 900)

VITAMIN D TOTAL 55.2 (DEFICIENT RANGE)

Taking ferrous fumarate once a day for iron anaemia and 800iu vitamin D

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to KBL6]

KLB6

So on 100mcg levo and 10mcg T3 your results were:

TSH <0.02 (0.2 - 4.2)

FREE T4 20.6 (12 - 22)

FREE T3 5.6 (3.1 - 6.8)

You were not thyrotoxic. You have an endo who is most likely a diabetes specialist and hasn't a clue how to treat hypothyroidism but pretends he does.

Your TSH was suppressed, but you weren't overmedicated because both free Ts were in range, and FT3 is the most important one, you can only be overmedicated if FT3 is over range. If you felt well with these results and that level of thyroid meds, he should have left well alone.

So did he take away T3 and increase Levo to after these results? If so then your new results of

TSH 7.4 (0.2 - 4.2)

FREE T4 13.7 (12 - 22)

FREE T3 3.4 (3.1 - 6.8)

show that at present you are undermedicated.

However, you have high antibodies therefore you have autoimmune thyroid disease aka Hashimoto's which is where antibodies attack the thyroid and gradually destroy it. The antibody attacks cause fluctuations in symptoms and test results.

When the antibodies attack, the dying cells dump a load of thyroid hormone into the blood and this can cause TSH to become suppressed and Free T4 and Free T3 to be very high or over range. These are called 'Hashi's flares or swings'. You may get symptoms of being overmedicated (hyper type symptoms) to go along with these results that look as though you are overmedicated. Unless a GP knows about Hashi's and these hyper type swings, then they panic and reduce or stop your thyroid meds.

The 'flares' are temporary, and eventually things go back to normal. Test results settle back down and hypo symptoms may return. Thyroid meds should then be adjusted again, increased until you are stable again.

So, you can see that things can be very unstable with Hashi's, it's a bit like a yo-yo.

You need to read and learn so you can understand and help yourself, very few doctors attach any importance to antibodies and don't understand how Hashi's can affect the patient, the test results or symptoms.

You can help reduce the antibodies by adopting a strict gluten free diet which has helped many members here. Gluten contains gliadin (a protein) which is thought to trigger autoimmune attacks so eliminating gluten can help reduce these attacks. You don't need to be gluten sensitive or have Coeliac disease for a gluten free diet to help.

Supplementing with selenium l-selenomethionine 200mcg daily can also help reduce the antibodies, as can keeping TSH suppressed.

Gluten/thyroid connection: chriskresser.com/the-gluten...

stopthethyroidmadness.com/h...

stopthethyroidmadness.com/h...

hypothyroidmom.com/hashimot...

thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/about_...

**

TPO antibodies 271 (<34)

TG antibodies 358.3 (<115)

As mentioned, you have Hashi's and these results confirm that.

Hashi's and gut/absorption problems tend to go hand in hand and very often the result is dire nutrient levels, which yours certainly are.

FERRITIN 31 (30 - 400)

Taking ferrous fumarate once a day for iron anaemia

If you have diagnosed iron deficiency anaemia then your treatment is incorrect - see NICE Clinical Knowledge Summary for iron deficiency anaemia treatment (which will be very similar to your local area guidelines):

cks.nice.org.uk/anaemia-iro...

How should I treat iron deficiency anaemia?

•Address underlying causes as necessary (for example treat menorrhagia or stop nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs, if possible).

•Treat with oral ferrous sulphate 200 mg tablets two or three times a day.

◦If ferrous sulphate is not tolerated, consider oral ferrous fumarate tablets or ferrous gluconate tablets.

◦Do not wait for investigations to be carried out before prescribing iron supplements.

•If dietary deficiency of iron is thought to be a contributory cause of iron deficiency anaemia, advise the person to maintain an adequate balanced intake of iron-rich foods (for example dark green vegetables, iron-fortified bread, meat, apricots, prunes, and raisins) and consider referral to a dietitian.

• Monitor the person to ensure that there is an adequate response to iron treatment.

So you need to discuss this with your GP and ask for the correct treatment. Take each iron tablet with 1000mg Vitamin C to aid absorption and help prevent constipaton. Always take iron 4 hours away from thyroid meds and two hours away from other medication and supplements as it will affect absorption.

As for your ferritin level of 31, for thyroid hormone to work (that's our own as well as replacement hormone) ferritin needs to be at least 70, preferably half way through range.

It can be raised within 24-48 hours with an iron infusion so I would ask for one, that will be very much quicker than tablets which will take months to raise your level.

You can also help raise your level by eating liver regularly, maximum 200g per week due to it's high Vit A content, and including lots of iron rich foods in your diet apjcn.nhri.org.tw/server/in...

**

FOLATE 2.8 (4.6 - 18.7)

VITAMIN B12 183 (180 - 900)

You are folate deficient with extremely low B12. Check here for signs of B12 deficiency b12deficiency.info/signs-an... then go straight over to the Pernicious Anaemia Society forum for further advice healthunlocked.com/pasoc/po... I believe you may need intrinsic factor antibodies testing for pernicious anaemia, you may need B12 injections and you certainly need folic acid for the folate deficiency. However, if prescribed don't start taking folic acid until further investigations have been done, and B12 should be started before the folic acid.

I have read (but not researched so don't have links) that BCSH, UKNEQAS and NICE guidelines recommend:

"In the presence of discordance between test results and strong clinical features of deficiency, treatment should not be delayed to avoid neurological impairment."

And an extract from the book, "Could it be B12?" by Sally M. Pacholok:

"We believe that the 'normal' serum B12 threshold needs to be raised from 200 pg/ml to at least 450 pg/ml because deficiencies begin to appear in the cerebrospinal fluid below 550".

"For brain and nervous system health and prevention of disease in older adults, serum B12 levels should be maintained near or above 1000 pg/ml."

**

VITAMIN D TOTAL 55.2 (DEFICIENT RANGE) 800iu vitamin D

You wont get a higher prescription from your GP but that is not enough, it's barely a maintenance dose for someone with a decent level.

The Vit D Council recommends a level of 100-150nmol/L and to achieve that you should be taking 5000iu D3 daily then retest in three months.

As you have Hashi's, for best absorption you should use an oral spray. BetterYou do one which is 3000iu dose, so take two doses to give 6000iu daily until you retest.

When you've reached the recommended level then you'll need a maintenance dose which may be 2000iu daily, it's trial and error so it's recommended to retest once or twice a year to keep within the recommended range. You can do this with a private fingerprick blood spot test with City Assays vitamindtest.org.uk/

There are important cofactors needed when taking D3

vitamindcouncil.org/about-v...

D3 aids absorption of calcium from food and K2-MK7 directs the calcium to bones and teeth where it is needed and away from arteries and soft tissues where it can be deposited and cause problems.

D3 and K2 are fat soluble so should be taken with the fattiest meal of the day, D3 four hours away from thyroid meds.

Magnesium helps D3 to work and comes in different forms, check to see which would suit you best and as it's calming it's best taken in the evening, four hours away from thyroid meds

naturalnews.com/046401_magn...

Check out the other cofactors too.

BetterYou do a combined D3/K2-MK7 spray which will cut out one extra supplement if you prefer.

**

To address the Hashi's and the gut/absorption problem, check out SlowDragon 's reply to this post which has links and information which will help healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...