Hi...I have suffered with "daily hangovers" for years now....so much so i even gave up drinking a couple of years ago as that just added to my distress!I have had cat scans and mri scans that have brought up nothing apart from wear and tear in neck, and i have been to see chiropractitioners for manipulation and have had accupuncture and tried many other things including herbal supplements and magnesium.Pain killers do not work in any way to take these 'hangovers 'away.I am interested in knowing if anybody on here has suffered in the same way and found that maybe adressing thyroid/adrenal/vitamins was the solution??? Could feeling this way be because I have never yet got my bloodwork to optimal?? I have never got t3/t4 to higher than mid range(it's currently lower..)...and I am working on this by now self medicating ...has anybody felt like this and found a solution?
Daily hangovers without the drink!: Hi...I have... - Thyroid UK
Daily hangovers without the drink!
If you have constant pain, could it be fibromyalgia? In which case T3 only might be what you need although it is scarce at present, so I believe. You could also not be able to convert T4 into T3. This is just a supposition. I shall give you a couple of links which might explain it a little better.
web.archive.org/web/2010103...
web.archive.org/web/2010081...
Dr Lowe was an Adviser to Thyroiduk.org.uk before his death so his website is now archived and some links may not be accessible.
web.archive.org/web/2010103...
Thanks shaws...I will have a look at that.I think I've never got to optimal levels as my bloodwork was always' in range and as i was a novice and naive at the time never questioned it! In time i learnt more and persuaded my gp to raise a little to see if it could help my symptoms . I felt more hyper and anxious and not better in any way so dropped back.I started to think maybe these hangovers could be down to the medIcation ..so after a few years of taking levothyroxine decided to self medicate with ndt...I got up to 3 grain over a period of months ..certainly never felt worse than I had but still not feeling optimal and there was no changes to my hangovers.My bloods were still low on the 3grain so thought I should adress adrenals and dropped ndt back along side taking adrenal glandular. ..I'm confident i will get bloods right when I start raising ndt again ..just wondered if anyone else had experienced permanent hangovers till they were optimally medicated or perhaps I'm barking up the wrong tree and it's no connection to my hormones.
I have tried various hormone replacements from T4, T4/T3, various NDTs over quite a few years and it was T3 that made me well - it doesn't work for everyone.
On re-reading above, I do wonder if you don't convert T4 to T3. Our body doesn't work with low T3 as it is the only active hormone required in our billions of receptor cells. Have you had a FT4 and FT3 blood test? I'll give you a link which explains why these are useful if not getting better. Usually members have had to have a private test for the Frees as doctors/labs don't usually do them as guidelines state only TSH and T4 is sufficient but we know better. We have recommended labs who do home pin-prick tests.
thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/testin...
Yes Shaw I've had many ..I'm going to post later after work and I will look at old tests and see what t4 is and see if generally t3 was higher ...wouldnt this indicate if I am good at converting?..I know on my last ones t4 was under the range but t3 was a little on it although at that time I had dropped from 3 grain to 1 gain ndt whilst I introduced adrenal glandular. .
Shaws my last bloodtests was middle of may and lab actually did free t3 (probably as t4 was low)..at this point it was one week after dropping ndt from 3 grain to 1 grain as I was adding a glandular (wasn't progressing on the 3grain so thought I must adress adrenals )bloodtest was in morning and I had fasted...as follows. .
Serum free t3 4.6 (3.00-7.10)
Serum free t4 8.6 (10.40-24.50)
Serum TSH >0.01 (0.30-6.00)
Obviously low and needs adressing ..but do you think it looks like I convert?..
Thanks...previous bloods on levothyroxine have in the past been..
Free T3 5.1 (3.00-7.10)
Free T4 17.5 (10.40-24.50)
TSH 0.07 (0.30-6.00)
And again..same ranges
Free T3 4.6
Free T4 14.1
TSH 0.08
And again...
Free T3 4.1
Free T4 10.8
TSH 3.1
Does this look like I may have conversion issues?
Thanks x
I am not medically qualified - but I will state that levothyroxine (T4 only) was introduced along with blood tests in the 60's (I believe).
Before that we were given NDT (the only one which was available). We were diagnosed upon our clinical symptoms alone and given NDT and gradually increased until we were well. If we didn't it was assumed we didn't have a problem with the thyroid gland. At least we got a trial 
Therefore ranges cannot correlate when we take NDT or T4/T3 or any other combination.
The very best way of knowing if a dose or combination, or levo alone or T3 alone is working is by how we feel. i.e. have our clinical symptoms resolved? Do we feel well? Do we feel we've normal health?
web.archive.org/web/2010112...
web.archive.org/web/2010103...
To drop from 3 grains of NDT (approx 300mcg of levo) to 1 gr (100mcg levo) was quite a drop. Usually when adjusting it is by 25mcg at a time always being aware of how we feel or symptoms which we don't feel happy about.
Shaws.. know it was quite a drop but it was doc P who told me to do this when adding adrenal glandular as if they suddenly kick in I may have found i was having way too much thyroid hormone....ironically since I've dropped from 3 grain to 1 grain and then back up to 1.5 grain(still taking the glandular ) I've been monitoring my temperature and according to that I am less hypo than I was with the 3grain!..I just wondered if percentage wise and ratio wise it looked like I was converting..I think I may post this as a new question thread to see what answers it brings up ,thanks
Oh yes! Every day for years! I wake up every day feeling like I've been poisoned ~ I don't drink either and I will watch replies with interest as I'm sick of trying to explain this particular symptom to various Drs and Endos who look at me like I'm crazy or an alcoholic in denial! I always feel it MUST be indicative of something! I too have tried all sorts in the past to no avail. I hope someone out there has the answer ~ I'm sorry it's not me. Good luck x
Mamapea1 it's good to know I'm not on my own...although I feel your pain..!My experience is the same as yours ...people/professionals cannot grasp it...think your crazy or putting it on!....I have tried and exhausted everything...
I don't know if this will work or not but if it is something in the levo which is affecting you. Take one antihistamine 1 hour before you take levothyroxine and if you don't have the same affect, ask pharmacist to give you another make as sometimes it is the fillers/binders in the hormones which affect us.
I used to have this. I gave up drinking too, but continued to feel terrible. I have come to the conclusion that the cause for me is high cortisol. I took Holy Basil for a few months and reduced the feelings of being hungover all the time, although it did take a while. I stopped taking Holy Basil a few weeks ago because I ran out, and I still haven't bought more. In the last few days I have felt that perhaps I should do something about this ASAP because the hangover feelings are just beginning to come back this week.
I imagine low cortisol might have the same hangover effect as well, but that is just a guess.
Wow thanks humanbean....yes my cortisol is definitely low and I've started recently taking a glandular for that reason...still tweaking dose at the moment!..when you say 'reduce'..did it not go completely? ..mine is 24/7 without any relief ..I've even had steroid injections and bottox injections at the pain clinic and never got relief that's why I think its probably hormones.
I have other hormones that won't be at a healthy level. I had a hysterectomy many years ago and was unable to take HRT. I need to investigate this but money (or the lack of it) is a constant problem and I haven't been able to test myself yet.
Compared to how I felt about 5 years ago I am a huge amount better. But there is still quite some way to go. 
Glad to know I am not alone, it's the worst of my symptoms and improved in NDT but still wake up hungover and I am completely alcohol free. I'll give Holy Basil a whirl, anything that helps is welcome!
Do you know for certain that you have high cortisol? If you have low cortisol, taking Holy Basil will be a very bad idea!
Unfortunately, there is no obvious way of identifying whether someone has low or high cortisol based on symptoms, the only certain way of finding out is by testing. Genova Diagnostics UK do a saliva test called an "adrenal stress profile" which measures cortisol in saliva at 4 separate times per day, and also measures DHEA in the morning. For more information on how to order the test and how to get your results, see this link (Genova don't work in the same way as most other testing companies mentioned on this site) :
thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/testin...
The actual test can be found here :
gdx.net/uk/product/adrenal-...
For more info read the different tabs and read the Additional Resources down the right hand side of the page.
Humanbean...I had a synacthen test that showed mine was low in the morning..but was told to carry a steroid card but it didn't warrant daily steroids. I should do the test though as it could be up and down...is holy basil not an adaptogen and would balance low and high?I'm not sure ..just wondering.thanks for your information and glad youve found a solution. .it's debilitating and rules your life!!x
People say that adaptogens help to balance either low or high cortisol. Frankly, I don't believe it - I don't think a substance can work two different ways depending on the person who takes it.
stopthethyroidmadness.com/m...
draxe.com/adrenal-insuffici...
On the subject of low cortisol you might like this website :
Skyebeardie it's the worst of mine also!
Hangovers without the booze is my most recurrent symptom. I'm not entirely sure what causes it as I can be fine all week and then just wake up one morning with it. It doesn't make any difference whether I drink or not and some weeks it might happen a couple of days others none. Bloody annoying so if you find out the cause please let me know!!!
I've had this for nearly 2 years now, started happening once a month then fortnight, week then every single day. I've had a million tests which have all come back clear. Been put on numerous anti d's but none worked, not even beta blockers. My stomach would feel destroyed every morning, I'd have extreme nausea, titanus, tense face, neck and shoulders, teeth pain, mouth tasting horrible and full of saliva with bad breath, burning face attacks that felt like all the blood vessels in my face were going to explode (luckily that only happened 3 times but it was unbearable and each attack would last 4 hours) I've had really bad anxiety with it all (I think anyone going through that would)
But I'm a hell of a lot better now after taking magnesium glycinate 25mg twice a day and watching what I eat, I have rice crispies every morning with with lacto free milk, main meals are Bachelors super rice with chicken breast (not processed) , I add peas, red pepper, carrot, ginger, tumeric and a basil and thyme leaf, also don't drink alcohol (keep trying alcohol but it sends me back to square one)
Sip water constantly throughout the day.
Sitting slightly upright in bed helps, have your last drink and food 2 hours before you go bed.
I'm pretty sure it's a food intolerance that's causing it for me but it's hard finding all the triggers as it seems to be not the food itself but what's in the food (mine seem to be yeast, cornflour, starch, chocolate, tuna) I've cut down on gluten which has helped as well.
Keep a food diary for a few weeks with all your symptoms and see if there's a pattern.
Maze thanks for reply. .I'm glad you have found some kind of solution to it....I've had mine every day 24/7 for roughly 6yr now...also with the tinitus ,nausea,but no burning pains...I've had food intolerance tests... (I was a little intolerant to gluten and dairy so gave up completely for 4 months and I cut down on sugar too but no change)!..I've had my jaw looked at,(thought maybe it could be clenching and grinding)neck looked at,...I've stopped caffeine and drinking,added foods ,taken foods away ,had chiropractitioners, physio and accupuncturits look at it,ended toxic relationship,tried relaxation,meditation,had eyes tested,tried vitamins/supplements,hrt, detoxes, massage,counselling,beta blockers,anti convulsion medication,steroid injections..list goes on..I thought it could be coz of perimenopause and the hangover headaches would go once I had gone through it...well I'm post menopause (2 yr now)and still suffering ...I'm working on optimal thyroid and adrenal health now and hopefully it may help!
6 years! Don't think I could cope if it went on that long. It's horrible but I'm doing a lot better with the magnesium.
Before I took the magnesium I was spitting blood in the sink every morning and my body couldn't regulate my temperature properly (had freezing cold hands all the time but burning face and had flu symptoms with it, all that stopped since taking the mag. Which type of magnesium did you try?
My headaches seem to have stopped now.
I've cut out coffee and tea as well as they seem to make me worse. I did have some teeth grinding when It first started but don't think I have now (if I have its only mild) , Bought a mouth guard for £210! A year and a half ago, only used it 3 times as it made my teeth way worse. 1st time I woke up ill 2 years ago all my teeth felt funny then a couple of months later I woke up and nearly snapped all my teeth in half pushing my bottom teeth through my top ones (did chip a one) the pain was horrendous and I didn't know what the hell was going on lol. It happened again a month later but hasn't happened since.
You might find all of those food intolerances are a symptom of an underlying issue.
Have you noticed that the problems are much worse when getting up early for work compared to sleeping in on the weekend? Cortisol (cushing's or addision's disease) may be the issue.
I have a lot of the problems you described, my mouth/lips were actually burning continuously for months until I quit my stressful job and then it improved.
In my experience, if your immune system isn't functioning properly, you'll get strange problems that the NHS are not able to diagnose. The trick is to find the underlying problem and just manage intolerances, skin rashes, bacterial infections etc. until then.
I've been ordering tests privately and am currently awaiting my cortisol saliva results. My thyroid is slightly underactive but I do not have Hashimoto's so I believe the thyroid is another of these secondary problems that I just to ignore for now :S
Mazer ..I've tried tripple source magnesium from a very good herbalist that knew I wanted it for headaches, also tried magnesium in terramin mineral clay and magnesium spray.I dont drink tea and ivegiven up coffee for months and it doesn't help so went back to it .I think with me it's hormones and I'm working on optimal thyroid and adrenal health now to see if that works. ...It's interesting what you said about your teeth ....is that why you were spitting blood because of teeth clenching and grinding? The magnesium will help because it relaxes muscles...but something I looked into like you was having a mouth guard made but that only protects the teeth and doesn't stop the actual grinding and clenching.....So....I looked into a new private treatment called 'Cerezen '...basically they are ear plugs custom made to fit your own ear canals that when inserted put your jaw in a certain relaxed position (aparantly all the muscles are connected )that prevent you from clenching and grinding in the first place!...anyways I was sent for an Xray of jaw first and consultant said i had some root canal thatI needed doing and I had some wisdom teeth that haven't/won't come through and that's why maybe I'm having hangover headaches as I am constantly clenching unawares but I'd need to sort that before going for the cerezen as that could be causing it ...anyways. ..I'm wondering if it's something you may want to look into as to me it sounds like part of your problem??...Also someone I knew suffered terribly with tmj and had hypnotherapy that cured her ...anyways ..like I said before I'm glad that at least you have at least found some relief but for me I think it is adrenals/thyroid/hormones that need to be optimally treated plus wear and tear in my neck thrown into the mix!
I haven't a clue where the blood was coming from but the worse I felt the more blood there was and it appears on the roof of my mouth. Since taking the magnesium I've only had a tiny bit of blood once where as before it was every day.
But yesterday I'm pretty sure I found out what is causing all my problems!!
It's a Corn/Maize intolerance!
How did I find out?
I've only made gravy a few times myself but had a dodgy stomach each time, I dismissed it was the gravy as I'm fine when my mum makes it for the sunday roast but.... I've only just found out she doesn't use cornflour to thicken it up and I do!
This Sunday she made a beef casserole and a potato layer bake which I had along with a lactose free yogurt which I've not had before (cut out yogurts ages ago thinking I may have lactose intolerance)
30 minutes later I had a stomach ache and it was bubbling like mad which drained all my energy and I fell sleep for 4 hours. Woke up with stomach still going crazy and had titanus and face muscles were tense. I asked my mum if she had put cornflour in the gravy and she said no but she had put it in the cheese sauce for the potato layer bake!
Then I looked at the ingredients of the yogurt, CORNFLOUR!
I had been eating gluten free cornflakes for ages but had started eating rice crispies recently and had felt a lot better.
Then I checked the ingredients of all the tablets the doctors have given me over the 2 years (6 different ones) and EVERY SINGLE ONE has Maize in!!
I've also just realised that my user name is what I'm intolerant to! It's just missing the "I" lol
If your not having stomach issues with the hangover feeling then it's probably not a food intolerance but saying that I have been feeling pretty crappy my whole life with tiredness, lack of energy and random headaches without any stomach problems so it may still have been the intolerance causing all that.
Alternatives to maize for thickening include potato starch.
Just don't re-boil after adding it as that reduces its thickening power!
Obviously only applies if you are OK with potatoes.
Wow as if!! Well at least you can move forward now and hopefully start feeling a lot better!...I had my intolerances done couple of yrs back and it was the usual gluten and dairy. ...I did cut out for 4 months but there wasn't changes altough I might give it another try as even if I didn't feel any better at least it would of been lowering my antibodies x
Where did you have your intolerances checked? I was going to use York test but was skeptical when I read that one person took 2 blood samples then sent them as different people and the intolerance's came back totally different. Also read that it's impossible to test for all them intolerances using the tiny amount of blood you send them.
I went to a herbalist and went on a 'mora machine'...you get 'rigged up to it " and it reads frequencis and according to how they go on the scale shows you what your intolerant to!...it sounds a bit hairy fairy but a good friend of mine had been previously and gave up the foods that the mora machine had picked up on and she was a million percent better so it made me confident about the machine .
For me, it's the potatoes that are the problem. Try eating a load of roast potatoes and see if that causes the gut bubbling.
Well I've had a suspicion of potatoes as when I made my gravy with cornflour I allways had mashed potatoes with it.
I was also bad the day before yesterday, I had had 3 course meal at a restaurant, Veg Soup, Roast Chicken with roasted new potatoes and a mushroom sauce, then chocolate brownie with chocolate sauce and ice cream.
Most soups have cornflour in and also most sauces (mushroom, chocolate) and ice cream has fructose corn syrup in!
I've also been really bad a month ago after having rubarb crumble with custard, and whats in custard powder? Maize Starch!
Finding all this out now it's crazy.
I eat pizza most days, it's the safest food for me.
I've cut them out for ages but may give them another try in the future as I can't remember being that bad after eating one.
Chinese takeaway has wiped me out 3 times though, must be cornflour in the sweet and sour / curry sauces.
Supermarket brands like Goodfellas and Chicago Town are usually alright. It's just trial and error, once you find a decent few, you can buy a load and your week instantly becomes a lot easier not having to worry about stomach problems.
Domino's pizza is one to avoid in my experience.
Wow Simon..!all that bread base !...I'm suprised your not gluten intolerant...?Do you not have hashimotos as gluten promotes the auto immune attack on the thyroid.
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