If T3 is a naturally occurring thyroid hormone how can it ever be something that damages the heart or whatever.
obviously it needs to be in "range" but why or how could they, the medics, deduce it to be " dangerous"..?? I just don't understand their reasoning.
I heard a radio programme in the middle of the night, 5 live, a while back now.
This female athlete said T 3,was commonly offered in the training arena .
I also believe some people use it to lose weight. Are these "users" who we are being compared with???
Maybe the docs are all down the gym and get their info there and think that we are all like that. I know many are advised to exercise more when unwell because they think we re lazy .
Jesus wept, it was a saying my Dad used, not PC I know, but I find myself using it often these days LOL
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The Endocrinologists' viewpoint appears to be lies and suppositions. After all the pharmaceutical company has made millions from levothyroxine and I've made a response in this post below.
Some people use T3 ie bodybuilders and others as weight loss. The following are excerpts:
"1. Needless Worry Over Potential Harmful Effects of Thyroid Hormone
The three main potential harmful effects from the misuse of thyroid hormone are bone thinning, heart problems, and acute adrenal crises.
2. Osteoporosis.
Through the 1980s and 1990s, doctors forced millions of patients’ to keep their thyroid hormone doses too low in order to avoid causing osteoporosis. In the early 1990s, studies began appearing in journals showing that TSH-suppressive doses
of thyroid hormone don’t cause excessive bone thinning, and certainly don’t cause osteoporosis or an increased rate of fractures
3.Heart Problems.
“You’re going to have a heart attack and die!” is the warning many doctors give their patients when they ask to be treated with desiccated thyroid—and especially if they ask for T3
(If you haven’t read the Foreword to this book by Vicky Massey, LMP, you may find interesting her experience with a doctor who bellowed this warning at her.)
4. Where these doctors get this idea is a mystery, but they certainly don’t get it from the scientific literature.The belief of these doctors that patients using desiccated thyroid or T3 run a high risk of heart attacks is clearly ignorance."
We've read on this forum quite often about osteo or heart said by doctors to members. They believe this and think they are giving us the right information to justify not increasing doses.
Are you able to expand on the acute adrenal crisis this is talking about? What do they mean by that? I take t3 only, for about 7 years now, and have had adrenal issues, but these have been due to major family grot and bereavements and such. And actually started years before I was given any t3! In fact was the lack of t3 and the toxicity of t4 that affected the adrenals!
Another misguided publication I take it!
No wonder we are fighting to keep t3 as an option.
And Shaws, I was confused with t3 being referred to as a 'blacklisted' drug in an earlier post about Amanda Doyle, following her 'performance' on the Radio 5 programme,. Are you able to confirm that t3 is a tried and tested drug that is licensed in the UK? How else would it have been an option at all? (even if a difficult one to obtain via NHS!) Would you know?
Wouldn't it be lovely to be realistically represented in all this?
Nos. 1, 2 and 3 are about the patients being told that these things may happen if we take T3 (which are untrue). To frighten us into submission I think. Doctors don't always know best but we, the patient, know full well what thyroid hormone replacements suit us.
I am not medically qualified but some people, due to being misdiagnosed/undiagnosed for a long time the adrenals can be affected.
One doctor advises assisting the adrenal gland but another doctor stated that the adrenals sort themselves out when we start on thyroid hormones.
If you are in the UK and are taking prescribed T3 - it is licenced (and the only one) , it has now been 'blacklisted' due to its cost alone. It has gone from about £30 per month to over £300 in the last couple of months. It is the only licenced T3 in the UK. Doctors can prescribe on a 'named-patient' basis for any other in the link below but wont as the onus falls on them should we have a reaction.
The 'blacklisted' T3 is because the BTA have taken the opportunity to 'blacklist' it due to the cost and many patients have been told to go onto levothyroxine which horrifies them who've been well on UK T3.
ah yes, I thought that was what was meant, wanted to check.
I saw Dr P several years ago, was in a right state, as many of us get to, I suspected adrenals affected, even Osteo came to same conclusion, without me needing to voice it. It made sense that to get thyroid sorted needed to get adrenals sorted first. And did work for me, that is when I ended up on t3 only too - as ever time tried to reintroduce t4 would be hit with fibro and migraines big time again, within a day or so - if I stopped t4, within a couple of days all gone -and stayed gone. Tried several times to take t4 - same thing. NOT going back there. Told 'supportive' GP what I was doing and why, and that I understand risks - (never had any adverse effect in 7 years!) GP allowed me space to find the right level, ended up on 60mcg per day. GP saw the difference in me so allowed me to sort myself. About 3 years ago I joined a slimming club as weight had not really moved. Within 11 months I'd lost 4st with very little effort. I am convinced this was due to meds being 'stable and working'.
Unfortunately my supportive GP retired last year and I am now back with outdated attitudes.
I would be happy to sign a disclaimer to rid the gp of 'blame'.
This price hike is not the full story. The medical world have been keeping this drug from us for a very long time, long before this happened. I just can't get to why? The price hike has just given them a bigger reason to try to rid it. I've said this several times on here, but I would not be surprised if the 'price hike' was not orchestrated - along with the time of the recent announcement, i.e - invoking 50 - bigger story - hides what's going on behind? Add to that the banding of this vital drug - issued for a 'potentially fatal' condition, which people have to fight long and hard to have a chance of being issued -with over the counter items, misrepresenting it to the public....to me all adds up to 'set up'.
My Endo said that my TSH being suppressed could cause osteoporosis and heart problems.I had a bone density scan and I have osteopenia,which is not as bad but still low bone density.
When I saw my doctor afterwards I told her my Mum has osteoporosis and my Sister also has low bone density,and they are not taking thyroid hormones,so she agreed that it was in my case a genetic thing.
I also said to her that it was more likely the thyroxine was bad for my heart and not the T3, as increasing the thyroxine gave me palpitations all the time and high blood pressure and high pulse rate. When she (thankfully) put me back on the T3 it all went back to normal again.
I also gave her information about hashimoto's and that if you have it you have problems converting from T4 to T3, which she said was very interesting.
I think myself lucky that I have a doctor who listens to me!
Your doctor is wrong.I do not know where they get the idea that too much will harm us. I think it is actually gossip from the producers of levothyroxine in order to keep us in line, i.e. to only take levothyroxine even if we feel too ill. Also by keeping our dose too low to keep our TSH 'somewhere' in range. When it should be 1 or lower.
Too low a dose certainly will keep us symptomatic but if we take too much, we'd soon reduce our dose ourselves.
You will benefit from the following link I think you'll find it helpful. Also from page 167 the heading is:
We don't need to be beholden to a product/doctors that doesn't remove our clinical symptoms. The fact that doctors know none isn't our fault they are the ones that are supposed to 'heal' the patient. Not disparage them and make them feel they are moaners/nuisances etc etc. If there's something wrong with our cars we take them to the garage and when we take it away and it's still not working properly take them straight back and expect them to 'fix' the problem. Not for us to keep returning and keep paying because they haven't done the job properly.
I'm hyper and being pushed to get a thyroidectomy when I asked the endo if I could get T3 after it I was ranted at for 5 mins about how dangerous, untested, it was only people who moan and complain get it etc so I stated "my body has been living on mostly T3 for 9 years and nothing catastrophic has happened to me so far" she didn't have anything else to say after that. It's incredibly worrying that dr's can be so closed off and short sighted when they are supposed to be objective scientists
He is not telling the truth. They are spreading rumours. I am now well and healthy on T3 only but it was trial and error with this and that.
I have my thyroid gland, but levothyroxine did me no favours. My TSH was 100 when, finally, diagnosed but I felt even worse on levo, gradually as some T3 was added to T4 I felt an immediate improvement but was only better on T3 only.
The are either being ignorant, or disguising the truth. Dr Lowe took 150mcg of T3 daily for 25 years. His brain worked very well due to all the publications he provided and truthful information. If T3 was dangerous, why would our healthy body provide it? NDT contains all of the hormones a healthy gland would have, but False Statements have been made about this as well because NDT was the only product to be prescribed up until the 60's when the big push by Pharma to get a nice niche in the millions of hypothyroid people throughout the world and even made more money if levo didn't suit and kept them ill and then they were prescribed 'other' prescriptions to try to control the symptoms which wouldn't work as it was thyroid hormones the patient needed, no something else. Anti-depressants I think must top the list.
If it untested how was it ever licensed to start with... Been on t3 for 7 years now with NO negative side effects...unlike the 20 years on t4 which made me very ill and prior to that fighting for another decade to actually get a diagnosis... Isn't it just - worrying! Question is WHY? What are they so scared of...perhaps we should be saying - ok we'll sign an indemnity to protect them from any blame...and here's a radical idea - they can let us take SOME responsibility for our own health!
You and me both! Along with a few other phrases and words I would not normally use!
For a long time I have been picking up on the fear that thyroid meds might be used as a slimming aid. Dr's have been worried that it would be 'misused' in this way. How when it is under such tight issue controls already!
I never believed that this, or the reason that it can cause serious heart problems have been genuine reasons for none issue. After all don't all drugs have serious side effects if overdoses and misused! I think there is something else, some other reason they do not want us to be able to prove it's worth...just cannot fathom why..think they are hiding something though!
Lets face it most of us with HypoT, have problems with weight gain, and bigger problems trying to lose it. So you would think with all this talk about obesity that they would be keen to let us have t3 to aid with the weight problems, if nothing else! Maybe they need to keep us fat and ill so they can joke about us and we won't have the energy to stand up for ourselves.
They say that too much t3 can cause heart palpitations and I do read of people having experienced this. It was one of the side effects I was told to watch out for, being on t3. In the 7 years I have been on t3, I had not experienced palpitations. Probably a sign I do need it! I certainly feel tonnes better on it.
Like levo and most other medicines, t3 must be dosed and monitored appropriately because *like every other kind of medicine* it can be harmful if used in excess.
The hysteria around t3 is bizarre and inexplicable. They're giving out ppis on repeat prescription and they can cause kidney failure: renalandurologynews.com/chr...
T3 is not only used in euthyroid people for bodybuilding and weight loss, it's given to polar research scientists to stop them going gaga: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polar...
As the saying goes 'ignorance is bliss' but only for those doctors who believe and spread rumours so that the patient gets more prescriptions for their symptoms.
That will open the doors wide for all consultations to be paid for - if they can force us? I wonder if we agreed on a disclaimer and paid prescriptions would they reintroduce - I doubt it...
Considering we have a fatal disease if untreated. We should be given what suits our bodies and not be dictated too by someone who has no inkling as to how unwell a person can be. We have first-hand knowledge. I thought the aim of a doctor was to do his/her utmost to ease symptoms not tell us that the TSH is 'normal' when patient feels anything but.
shaws I don't know if you have seen my recent postings - lots of them - this is one point seems to get very little airing! It is a potentially fatal condition, being treated with such disregard - what are we suppose to think...my son said 'population control' I think he may be right!
and this needs to be publicised more to make people aware of the importance of the t3 situation. My chemist mentioned, yesterday, that he was surprised I was still on it...
The doctors have been 'told' that hypo is 'easy' to diagnose (I can definitely and wholeheartedly disagree with this). If TSH is above 10 the patient is hypo. Considering some are very ill when it's about 4 and may never have TSH rise to 10. Useless prescriptions issued for the symptoms and no FT3 or FT4 taken.
So, if I was a doctor I'd look at your TSH and pronounce 'you aren't hypo or you are 'normal' so the symptoms you have are ignored and the patient is flummoxed as 'normal' to us means without symptoms - or why do I have all these symptoms and they can give no answer.
Really, really confusing and then people can develop heart disease or other diseases or thought of as having a somatization disorder.There must be many diagnosed with a mental health problem or in hospitals being 'treated' with anything but thyroid hormones.
It seems to me shaws that the Dr have been told little else! First 'specialist' I saw after 20 yrs of t4, not working, was a haematologist, who could see nothing wrong with my blood - even though TSH was 17 at time. (Top range being 4.5 or something like) When I got her to get the limited results she had only a couple were in range, top end. Her answer was to tell me to do more and eat less. And she condescended to do even more blood tests!!! Joke - did give out to GP for sending me to her, and insisted on Endo - Got there, and some t3, TSH down to 0.01 was helping to some degree, until swine flu hit, and Endo didn't want to alter meds - looking at piece of paper again! Sent me to have head checked. Didn't go back to Endo - found Dr P!
All these views and 'evidence' needs to be made very public, and quickly, before they do get away with removing the one and only drug available that can make us well. Hypothyroidism is too serious a condition, if left untreated or mistreated as most of us are on here know!
If T3 is commonly offered in the training area, by whom? When, for us, who need it, for genuine medical reasons have to jump through hoops - usually involving dealing with decades of trying to make t4 work for us, getting increasingly more ill, and then have to be referred, and undergo further tests, before they will even consider us being issued with it....NONE sense!
I do realise that (for now) I am one of the lucky ones's still being prescribed. But all all the people, out there, on here, wherever, are not even part of the NHS 'discussion' because you are not being counted in their 'vague' percentages. I'm not blaming any one for this, it is an NHS forced issue. One they should be so ashamed of. But I reckon most people on here are here because they are not getting even diagnosed, never mind treatment. If we can all speak with one voice, maybe we can be heard, and you 50 000+ people can all be considered too - we need to show the NHS and public, in general, the REAL and bigger picture. Who knows maybe one day it may help lead the way to everyone getting wha they need and much quicker.
I know...and pigs might fly!!! But there is strength in numbers - especially if we can show 'real' numbers not 'vague' 'pulled out of the air' percentages!
My friend informs me it's better to talk T3 use to a T3 using gym monkey, than a GP or endocrinologist. Sad, but possibly true!
I sent a large package of UniPharma to my friend, for her post TT husband, who is clearly still hypo. He's not using it, so she's taking it to loose weight. Another friend is not taking hers. Aaargh!!!
Hi Leverette🙂 How is your friend taking t3 just for weight loss? I tried adding t3 to my Levo and within a couple of days I felt extremely hypo, very slow pulse and exhausted but racing heart and anxiety like symptoms starting around midnight, which I attribute to my adrenals crashing. It was only on 5mcg added in (early mornings) then 10 for another couple of days but without any effect. I don't understand what went wrong and how come such small dose made me ill when other people can safely use it...
I'm afraid I don't know. Low pulse & hypo means I've forgottoen a dose, or taken too little. Did you take it early in the day? I think it peaks at 12 hours, bit can't remember where I read that.
I've never had levo, as I self-medicate. I'm fine with 75mcg of UniPharma, as it's very weak, or 2
grains of NDT, which contains 18mcg of T3. Perhaps you were prescribed some very strong T3. The only time I've had
symptoms as you've described was when I was coming down with a bad cold
when on T3 only. I assume my high temperature meant I needed less T3,
though this lasted only 4 nights.
My friend said looked up T3 on the internet, when I said I'd send her >6ft well built hubby some, as he's only on 140mcg of T4. I suggested she take only half a pill, & had previously sent him instructions on how to take his THs. His endocrinologist told him, >30 years ago, to take his levo with breakfast, so he scuppers his absoption with yoghurt & coffee, & consequently, has hypo symptoms.
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Low pulse & hypo means I've forgottoen a dose, or taken too little. Did you take it early in the day? I think it peaks at 12 hours, bit can't remember where I read that.
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