I had been taking liothyronine only for a few years now. I started to feel unwell again and consultant suggested lowering the dose. I agreed as ; we both thought maybe my body was exhausted from being overdosed for over a year. As in we had let my t3 blood levels be above range for years becoz I felt better on that dose. It was 40 mcg liothyronine
I tried 30 lio for a month or 2. T3 bloods came into range but I felt really tired and bad headaches. so my consultant was lovely as usual and suggested 2 options ; try adding 25 levothyroxine to my 30 liothyronine or just increase my liothyronine from 30 to 35.
I decided on the levothyroxine and lio choice as I had been the other route before and thought I was only heading back to square one.
However now after 6 weeks of t4 and t3 as above doses. I have very achey heavy legs which are hard to lift . Like the day after a heavy exercise regime when I was well lol. All stiff. I ache in my arms as well.
I have two thoughts on this and wanted some advice.
Will this aching go if I increase the dose or get worse or do I stay on this dose and it will improve. Or do I have to stop levothyroxine and just increase lio again.
I know u may think why do I want to persevere with levothyroxine. Which leads me to my other question
My consultant reckoned if she had met me sooner. That is when I first found out I was not converting enough t3 from my levothyroxine. Which I found out via you guys. Thankyou again. I was on levothyroxine 100. My t4 was higher end of normal but t3 turned out below normal. So I and gp added t3. Eventually I dropped levothyroxine coz your advice and guiding me to Paul Robinson thankyou.
So, sorry, consultant said she would have just increased my levothyroxine first rather than add liothyronine. increasing dose till t3 came into range even though t4 level was near top.To see if that made me feel better first.
So my thought is keep increasing levothyroxine dose till eventually its paltry conversion to t3 adds to my t3 levels.
But I will also have t4 in my system which I won't have if only on liothyronine . Which I was thinking is good to have as it is a store form of energy and so you are more like a non thyroid person. also is it true links with no t4 and dementia.
Thankyou for your support. Sorry if this is a ramble.
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My opinion is that there's no point in having stored T4 if you can't do anything with it. And, by the sound of it, your conversion was really bad before adding in the T3. And l think the way your present endo said she would have handled it, would have been totally wrong. You wouldhave ended up with a lot of unconverted T4 in your system, which would then have converted to rT3. What's the point of that?
Hi thankyou so very much. Your answer is just what I was looking for. I am going to say I want to go back to just liothyronine and ask to go back to 40 mcg liothyronine.
I was bad then but only after a 13 hour shift or other exertion. I had brain fogs
On 30 lio only I had headaches and increased exhaustion, and heavy legs
On 40 mcg liothyronine my t3 was about 7 to 9. My laboratory top of range was about 6. Do u think that's ok. As would like that dose again.
Thanku so much.
I need to read about rt3 also in simple English lol
Thankyou for your reply. My vit d done recently and all ok but thankyou as I may ask for it again. Thankyou for thinking of me. You are all so kind on here
I found I wasn't converting well though a little better than you and soI had the Vit D, B13, folate and ferritin tested and all were pretty low so added to my supplements. I also did a food intolerance test and found I had very many problems so changed my diet to see what happened, I had now more energy and my weight was dropping, not by a great deal but I was more defined. It worked and I was almost spot on. Prior to this I was thinking of going back on NDT as it's now called. Originally I had been prescribed extract as it was called in the 1980's and I thought it more stable than Levo which I went onto when they was a prolonged strike in Canada. I was pretty good with Levo until I was menopausal then everything went off so for several years I watched what others were doing before I decided to go it alone though my endo retired and the replacement would monitor me. So pretty good again now though the ocassional tweak from time to time. The supplements are working well so I think that is helping my general health as well as my thyroid.
Thank you for your reply. I have given up gluten, sugar, and take selenium and a multi vit. Walk for about mile average a day. Do u recommend dairy free? It is one of my favourite food groups but if needs must. Please Say no dairy is fine lol
Actually dairy was about the only thing I was good on! That shows we can be very different. A few days after my intolerance test I was going on a last minute cruise with my son. It was a similar trip to one I had done 42 years earlier though a month later in the year. How was I going to manage as was a lot older, was nowhere at my peak but what is the peak of a senior citizen?
I was exhausted when I arrived, left home for the airport just after 3 am. Left the car there but found the airport in chaos so standing literally pulling my suitcase behind me till final boarding just after 7! Spent ages getting through the screening, recent new hip and finally walked straight onto the plane to fly to Venice. Thankfully the first day was at sea. By now my feet were so swollen that the only footwear I could tolerate were my staple sandals for the evenings and they cut into my flesh badly!
1 had decided to use this time to get used to a new diet of foods I could eat and no worries about shopping or cooking. My son worried as the excursions I'd wanted were the energetic ones but I ignored his concern as I had done them before. As the days moved on I felt much better. The swelling from the flight stated to go and I could eventually get my sandals on with suppressing a scream!
I went home a different person so how had I changed my diet-the main change was breakfast-a cheese omelette! So I continued with them daily and then tapered down to one a week cooked in coconut oil but lunch is often a lump of cheese and a yogurt it works for me but it may not work for everyone I don't have antibodies so may be that makes a difference but I'm happy with my lot!
I take loads of supplements. Zinc and Selenium from day one early thirty years ago but over the years have added in and increased magnesium, folate Vit D B12 B complex Vit C, K2, Milk thistle and Kelp. And at this point I was taking Levo.
I had started my thyroid journey on NDT in the 1980's or Extract as it was called then and used basal temperature to adjust my meds. It worked very well and I found it easy to vary my dose though I always checked with the doctor but he always backed me. He was on the same meds! Then there was a prolonged strike in Canada and I couldn't do without my meds so asked to go on Levo and was good on that as well until I was menopausal and it when hsywire. I seriously thought about going back to NDT but I live where it's been impossible to get prescribed for many years. Dr Skinner had told my GP to add in T3 but I was t allowed so fairly recently I decided to do it alone. Ifid get my conversation almost perfect and felt so much better with that and dietary changes but still a little low on T3. I then read that the ratio in Thryroid S was a little generous on T3 so decided this was the one for me to try. I when read everything I could for almost another two years before I took the plunge. Lots of learning to do but I took the plunge and told my doctor what I was thinking. She can't condone it but will do bloods so that gave me more confidence to go ahead!
T4 (contrary to popular opinion) does have effects that T3 doesn't. Your body should have an appropriate balance of T3 and T4. For this reason I strongly disagree with your Endo's strategy of overdosing T4 to get T3 within range.
Whether pure T3 or a T3+T4 mix is more appropriate really depends on your T4 levels. If you do need T4 a different brand may be worth trying some have allergic reactions to one of he two forms.
The most critical question is why your body was needing so much T3?
This is clearly not just a conversion issue.
If you are needing mega doses of T3 - I would be wanting to know your levels of B3 (Niacin), B2 (riboflavin) and CoQ10 and also whether you were on statins?
Also what are your iron levels and red blood cell counts like?
I would also be tempted to get rT3 tested to see whether that is impairing the action of T3.
I think I explained myself wrongly coz my dose of liothyronine is only 30. Sorry for confusion.
You mention may need t4 dependant on my blood levels. They are almost non existent when on t3 only but I don't take any then so isn't that why. And also As I am hashimotos and ultra sound shows atrophy so dont think I produce any natural t4.
I am probably wrong lol please correct me if I am coz I get confused lol
It took a bit of following, but no you explained correctly. I was referring to the T3 levels in blood that you said were above the normal range when you felt well.
Thank u. That simplification is what I need. So really just becoz t3 high enough in my blood doesn't mean I have enough in my cells. And so mine prob has to be high blood level before enough is getting into my cells.
Is there any reason it isn't getting into my cells that I can do something about. I take selenium 1oo ug. Vit c 220 mg and a multivitamin. I read selenium helps transportation into cells.
Also is it dangerous to have high t3 blood levels. If not is there research I can use to show consultant.
And do u think I should go back to 40 mcg liothyronine where my t3 levels were between 7 to 9 over the years I was on it. I took it 20 bd. Any advice on how I take it. Times and dose splitting. I would be very greatful for.
Because of research given me from this site. I take it 12 hourly becoz euthyroid people ( is that right for people who donthave thyroid probs) showed they have almost constant t3 blood levels day and night.
Thankyou again. If there is any th ing I can do to give back to this site please let me know thankyou
The problem could be T3 getting into cells, or it could be T3 not working well enough once in the cell.
The later was why I asked about B vitamin levels and CoQ10. Bowel function is heavily dependent on Thyroid function at low levels of supplementation, or with natural amounts in food.
Very high levels of T3 are a temporary solution until we work out why your T3 isn't working. They are not a long term solution.
Please give your free T4 - free T3 and TSH levels together in one post, both when you were on the high T3 dose and now so we can see what's happening.
Hi Leoopard, I have some results at last. I wondered if you would be kind enough to analyse them for me.
Results 1 and 2 are when I was on 40 mcg liothyronine and felt relatively well.
Results 3.
Are now that I am on
Thyroxine 25 mg
And 30 liothyronine. On which I have been aching all over. A symptom I have not had really in years. I have been on this regime for 2 months
Results ;
1 ( taken 5/1/16)
Tsh 0.10
Ft3 9.5
Ft4 2.1
Result 2 (11/10/16)
Tsh 0.75
Ft3 8.3
Ft4 < 1.0
Result 3 (24/3/17)
Tsh 0.19
Ft3 5.8
Ft4 5.0
I want to go back to 40 liothyronine on its own although ft3 is always above range in bloods .
On 30 liothyronine on its own i felt tireder and couldn't hear alarm etc but Ft3 was about 5.
Should I see if consultant will do reverse t3. Or just say now that I want to stop levothyroxine and go back to liothyronine only. She will probably want me to take 30 or 35.
Is there something I can say which will support my argument for having 40 liothyronine again.
I've always been told that FT3 must be in range long term and that FT 4 can drop donecto halfway in the range. I think it you lower your T3 then your body will increase your T4 level. At the moment that has probably shut down as you are swamping it with T3. With a better more natural balance I'm sure you will start to feel better.
You also mention multivitamins. Two problems with those. One they don't give you enough of some of them and also not all vitamins should be taken at the same time so you are immediately negating some.
I would get your Vit D tested, B12, Folste and ferritin rested and postcyour results on here. Doctors may well want to send you for tests but not good at looking at results. Often we are in range and told we are normal. We are not always good though as we need to be optimal which for many needs high in the range.
Also when treating low Vit D we are given a dose often as low as 800IU a day. That won't do anything! We often need a booster dose to get the levels up and then a maintenance dose to keep us up there. It's surprising how many doctors think when we reach a magic figure we can stop-don't! It drops very quickly!
To get really well we need to do each piece in the jig saw to get really well. Some things happen quickly but some can take many months to be effective so it takes time and a lot of learning and listening to your body. Whenever you get a ythu f tested then post results and ranges and I'm sure you will get many positive comments that will help
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