? Clean Diet Success ?

Hi! Has (is) anyone on this forum been on the 'CLEAN' eating diet (gluten free, dairy free, yeast free and sugar free) that the health gurus recommend for optimal thyroid function, and has had 'substantial' success in terms of proper weight loss (management), elimination of sinusey allergies, fatigue and other thyroid symptoms etc???

I have been recommended this and am willing to go into this wholeheartedly if there is enough backed up evidence from other hypothyroid sufferers to deny myself organic milk and wheat to do this. I know sugar, yeast and soy is taboo and that doesn't bother me like having a decent tasting coffee ( believe me, I have tried every single dairy alternative and they = Yuck basically) good pasta and yeast free bread once in a while.

Please, please are there any success stories to this eating plan???

My therapist claims I will be 100 times better on it.

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  • Twinmommy,

    I really don't think it necessary to adopt such a restrictive diet unless you are allergic to all of the food groups you've been advised to eliminate. You can try an elimination diet by eliminating one food group at a time for 2-3 weeks then reintroduce it to see whether you have improvement/disimprovement in symptoms.

  • Much appreciate your thoughts! However, I would love to hear if anybody has adopted the CLEAN diet purely for optimal thyroid support and function irrespective of any symptoms whatever they may be or even none but maybe have felt better generally and their blood test levels are better as a result of the diet alone (plus thyroxine obviously).

  • Going ketogenic (which cuts out all of the above bar dairy, and very low carb/highish fat ) has transformed my health, and significantly reduced my need for hormone replacement.

    It IS restrictive, but on the other hand I'd eat grass daily if it made me feel this good! And like everything else you get used to it, and its really only social situations that cause problems. People can't believe that I no longer eat sugar, don't want pizza etc etc. But I don't - I know how bad they make me feel and I want nothing of it!

  • Thanks! But why not cut out dairy? The therapist I went to stated that gluten and dairy are the biggest culprits in poor thyroid function. I would love to have my one cupped skimmed latte and one - two cup decaf tea a day even if it was lactose free or A2 milk which I like rather than the horrible alternatives, but the therapist stated even those are OUT! :(

  • Lactose free milk just has the lactose turned to another sugar, so the carb content is just the same.

    I have basically not cut out dairy because a)I love cheese and b) without cream and butter I struggle to get enough fat in (and I did try dairy free keto for a couple of weeks, it was hell, and I was hungry). I don't drink liquid milk though - I use home made almond milk instead. Makes quite a nice latte.

    I have in the past been dairy free for a long time with no benefit, and no problems going back to it. It was before hypothyroidism, I admit. I did it because my baby daughter was allergic, and the house needed to be milk free while she was at the age when fridge doors were just a challenge.

    My thyroid gland is no longer functional anyway, so it would only be worth doing if it changed the way I convert. And that seems to have improved even with the dairy in there.

  • Ruthi! Thanks...

    I dislike almond milk and all the others immensely. What about A2 milk? There is one health specialist (American I think) says A2 milk is ok for thyroid function.

    Also do you take probiotics, Vit D3, fish oil and multivit/mineral as part of your diet? I was told to & spent a fortune on all the supplements to go with this diet.

    The diet you've adopted, was it specifically just for thyroid support or for known allergies, intolerances? Also, isn't a high fat diet unhealthy and if you're hypo, doesn't it make you put on weight? Sorry all the questions, I'm intrigued by your story.

  • I know nothing about A2 milk. And have a general aversion to anything processed, although its not easy to avoid entirely. I've also been hypo long enough to have read pretty well every expert on the subject, and I trust none of them. Dr Skinner was the exception. Very pragmatic, not too bothered about supplements.

    I take probiotics irregularly. And Magnesium malate or bisglycinate. That is pretty well it.

    I had a long standing problem with sugar addiction. Then I did a herbal candida cleanse (diet alone was impossible the sugar/candida always won) and I suddenly was able to say no to sugar. And then stupidest thing, there was a girl on facebook who posted before and after pictures attributing the saving of her life to the ketogenic diet. She also mentioned the Curly Girl method, which I adopted immediately. But she was beautiful, and I warmed to her. I had no idea when I started keto what would happen to me, but posted about it a month or so ago

    healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

    And no, its a total fallacy that fat will make you gain weight. That is carbohydrates, that turn to glucose in the blood and are then converted to stored fat by insulin in order to maintain blood glucose levels within tight tolerances. Of course, if you eat a lot of excess fat that will be stored as well. The ketogenic diet is only moving your calorie intake to fat intake which is converted to ketones and then burnt for energy. The difference is that in general you feel a lot less hungry without the ups and downs of blood sugar levels.

    Fats (essential fatty acids) and proteins (essential amino acids) are essential to life, and we cannot make them ourselves. Carbohydrates are not essential. Blood glucose is, but we can make glucose ourselves, and in fact have very efficient processes to do so in times of low food supply or famine.

    There is now overwhelming evidence that low fat diets are harmful, and Sweden recently became the first country to officially recommend a low carb/higher fat diet for weight loss. Another few years and I am sure it will be universal, although there is a lot less money to be made from selling meat and veg than all the disgusting low fat (and in general high sugar) products you see in supermarket aisles. And cholesterol in particular is essential, because it is the precursor to so many of our hormones, including thyroid hormone. It is so essential that as soon as your thyroid levels fall, cholesterol rises, because our bodies know that we need this essential building block.

  • I read your keto post but was surprised on the lack of variety of fruit and veg you eat and can't see how that can be healthy generally. What veg is Keto friendly? Basically, you say you eat meat, fish, eggs and cream with limited veg and berries and that is it ? If you eat cream what's the difference in having liquid milk if it is organic? I have read articles by cardiologists which warn against protein rich diets and say that can also have adverse health risks. Surely a 'little' from all food groups if organic and unprocessed ( bar sugar or if allergic/ intolerent) gives overall health benefits??? There is so much conflicting dietry information given to us poor thyroid sufferers, it's hard to know where to turn.

  • The overarching aim of this diet is ketogenesis, and with that quite a lot of what we currently eat is excluded. Typically carbohydrates are restricted to 20grams a day. With 14 grams in an average apple, you can see why it's not going to be on the menu. Veg is pretty well anything that grows above ground and is not a fruit (with a few exceptions such a courgettes). Liquid milk has far more lactose than double cream.

    Although it seems unbalanced, this diet (with the exception of milk products, I admit), is very close to what most hunter gatherers would have eaten. Fruit is excluded largely because modern varieties are so high in sugars. It's quite close to the paleo diet, but without dried fruit.

    When I started, despite the health transformation of the girl on facebook, all I was hoping for was to lose some weight. But it's brought so much more I can't really imagine giving it up (note the change in emphasis, how it's the diet I would feel deprived of)!

    Does it seem unbalanced? Well yes. But the argument is that the modern diet, with its enormous emphasis on carbohydrates and sugar is what is actually unbalanced. Because I had been following the work of Jason Fung for a while that logic worked for me. And I knew that my sugar habit would catch up with me if I did nothing. And I have been increasingly concerned about my memory. Not any more.

    I'll wait for them to prove its a bad idea, rather than trotting out old dogma based on bad science. In the mean time I feel pretty good for someone approaching 70.

  • Thanks Ruthi for all your informative advice. I will look into things a lot more for sure. Congratulations on your success story. I am desperate to get to the bottom of how I'm feeling. I love double fresh cream but don't think I can take that regularly due to sinus, post nasal drip issues. Actually that has given me a thought. If there is less lactalose in cream than milk, but full fat cream is OK, how would a floater coffee be (black coffee with whipped fresh cream on top, no sugar of course)??? If that is Keto friendly, perhaps Keto could even become twinmommy friendly! 😊😊

  • There's still a,bit of lactose in double cream, but relatively little. It's worth a try.

    We each need to find our own salvation. I have just been astounded at how many and varied the benefits of keto are. The best thing that happened to me since NDT!

  • The Inuit and people in the Nordic countries particularly outside larger towns eat a meat, fish and dairy protein rich diet with limited veg. This is because this is the food that is available were they live.

    In the case of the Inuit they have found their traditional diet is better for them than modern Western diet full of refined grains, as on a modern Western diet a lot of the adults have type 2 diabetes. Those with type 2 diabetes as you well know are more likely to have heart disease.

    In regards to thyroid function I have no idea about it in these groups of people.

    In the case of cardiologists most Western ones still cite the the Ancel Keys study where he cherry picked the data to reach his hypothesis. Study after study is showing that once people cut down on refined carbohydrates their cholesterol level decreases.

  • I agree and have actually some experience myself with the inuit people having travelled to Northern Greenland and Northern territories of Canada & Alaska staying in villages & townships with the locals eating the mostly arctic diet. Certain aspects of their diets are very healthy but to get essential vitamins normally found in fruit and veg they have to take it especially vitamin C from raw seal liver (if cooked, the vit C is dissolved & worthless) and other nutrients from whale blubber, that's why the W.H.O allows these people to continue whaling for these purposes. How many of us in the West could tolerate that instead of a fruit salad? I took a load of vits & minerals with me when I was went there for that very reason. However, their elk and moose ribs are wonderful! I ate most of their diet but couldnt stomach the raw offal and blubber. On reflection, the Inuits are free of numerous western diseases from their diet but a lot of men particularly become alcoholics. But more interestingly, most of the women and youngsters are pretty chunky to say the least. The men are less so because of the miles and miles of walking to hunt, and you burn more calories staying out in extreme cold weathers whilst waiting their catch. I didn't see many slim women in these more remote areas. So some aspect of their diet or health is keeping them well rounded around the girdle, so to speak!? 😊

  • Doing a parasite cleanse once a year will also kill sugar cravings.

  • I know that is the theory, Rosie_P but my first parasite cleanse just sent the sugar cravings over the top. I mean seriously, two or three chocolate bars a day over the top! I figured my beasties had been keeping the candida in check. I did repeat the parasite cleanse with no ill effects soon after the candida just in case, and the second time had no real reaction.

  • A2 milk just meant milk from older southern breeds, like jerseys and guernseys. Some A2 milk is processed to remove the small amount of A1 casein from jersey-type milk. But natural raw jersey milk is probably better if you aren't allergic to lactose or casein. Most milk has both A1 and A2.

  • So A2 is just cows milk with casein removed.

    Also not everyone who has a problem with milk has an allergy some of us are simply intolerant to lactose, which is common, or casein.

    I'm being impolite because there is a difference between allergies and intolerances, and it is good for people to know the difference.

    Allergies like asthma, nut allergies and even hayfever can kill in a short time if a person has a reaction. This is an medical emergency and you need to get the person to A&E immediately.

    Intolerances don't kill people directly but the side effects e.g. diarrhoea can kill if ignored.

    * Even many doctors are unaware that both asthma and hayfever can kill because they are so common, but both cause severe breathing difficulties.

  • No. With A1 beta-casein removed leaving just A2 beta-casein. The type of casein is related to the cow's genes- some cows are A1-A1, some A1-A2 and some A2-A2.

    My cousin died from asthma when he was about 20.

    I used "allergic" as most lay people do, to mean both intolerance and allergy, since many people don't know which they have.

  • Then people wonder why doctors and catering staff don't take them seriously...

    If you have a food problem you need to work out whether it's an intolerance or allergy. People with non-food allergies tend to use the term correctly.

    (Sorry I'm not having a go at you.)

  • My gastroenterologist told me that there were no food alllergies, only intolerances.

  • My nephew who walks around with an epipen due to a peanut allergy would beg to disagree...

    But then as we all know is on here doctors can talk ****

  • Hello again, your therapist's comment is interesting - in countries where the diet is gluten and dairy free are no thyroid problems?

    I know of someone whose diabetes went away completely when he went to work for a few years in Japan as a result of the Japanese food.

  • Hi Ruthie. Glad to hear you are feeling so much better. I am trying very hard to stick to a low carb, high fat diet but keep giving in to the cravings for sugar. What really helps me is to hear other people's success stories with their health. Weight loss not so much as I know weight drops very well on this diet. I am obese, old and am fed up with aching hips, low energy, cravings etc. I read a tremendous amount so I know the mechanics and the how and why's. I really just want you please to tell me your health benefits. I am reading the Obesity Code at the moment which is excellent. I firmly believe in insulin resistance being at the root of my problem. It just makes perfect sense. Thanks for reading this if you have ploughed through it!

  • Here is the link to my original story. (bottom of page)

    Since I wrote it I have realised that my old lady itchy back, the only menopause symptom I ever really had other than a few night sweats, is almost gone. I am back to two tiny spots, whereas there was a time when hubby was telling me off regularly for shredding my back!

    And I am really no longer worrying about Alzheimers! I actually went to the GP last year because hubby was complaining so frequently about my absentmindedness and had an inconclusive assessment at the memory clinic. Not sure if this is entirely due to an almost complete absence of brain fog now, or the disappearance of my anxious tendencies (which dogged the first 66 years of my life!) And the fact I now worry like normal people means I coped so calmly with my dog being horrendously ill in the vets last week that I actually wondered if I was OK. I was worried about him, of course. But I didn't plan the funeral, or stop functioning completely, and I had none of those awful heartsink episodes where my gut just disappeared from my torso, IYKWIM!

    Jason Fung is my hero. If you watch his videos (on Youtube, he's refined his ideas about insulin a little since they were recorded, but basically the same message as the Obesity Code) you will see that not only is he super bright, questioning, and firmly on the side of good science, but he is also amazingly humane and humble. Not traits I have been used to seeing in doctors!

    Right, practical help on sugar cravings. 1)if you are using artifical sweeteners, stop them. How in earth can your brain get used to no sugar if you tease it with the taste? And there are sweetness receptors in the stomach that start the release of insulin which is what you do not want. Also consider going dairy free to see if it helps. I tried, it was hell because I just couldn't pack in enough fat. I don't do BPC or fat bombs, and also I felt no different. 2)If you can identify a time of day when it hits you (4pm for me) then re-arrange your day, or make sure you have suitable food for that time. I generally don't eat until then, because I know that I will have to put something in my mouth at that time. I still manage to pack in my daily macros!! 3) There are lots of keto and low carb groups on facebook. Many have whacky ideas, but the Keto Diet Open Discussion and Keto 2nd Breakfast groups are pretty balanced. There are also some Fungian groups, including one that is a recipe group. All have lots of before and after pictures (and while weight is not my primary goal, I'm not complaining about being down two sizes!) and lots of stories about miraculous recoveries.

    Could you have Candida? I abused sugar from age 12 when my mother died, and compounded that with years of frequent tonsillitis which was treated each time with antibiotics. So my sugar cravings were at least in part due to the candida as well as addiction/abuse. I could never stick to a low sugar diet for more than a day because of that. It all started with the herbal candida cleanse I did, when I became able to choose not to consume sugar. I used Humaworm, but it comes from Canada and takes ages to arrive. I'm told the one by Elle Belle is also good.

    The link, with all the other miracles. The only thing that has changed is that I have had a bout of serious constipation, but that seems to be over now. Low carb diets are also low waste, so don't expect to produce the volume you did before. All is well as long as you do produce regularly, and feel OK.

    healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

  • Thank you so much for taking the trouble to reply. After I wrote I read your piece you linked to where you had listed several benefits. Yes Candida is suspected. I have the fungal toenails and have have had fungus where my bra goes round my ribs, cider vinegar quickly despatched that. I have the symptoms for insulin resistance too; all of them! I am also 66 years old and need to sort myself out before it is too late. I also had horrible anxiety for many years, maybe for twenty years. It's subsided greatly due to magnesium oil. Like you I panic. You mentioned your dog being very ill and you dealt with it calmly and sensibly. I catastrophise things and reach for Google and spend days researching whatever is wrong all the while being an emotional wreck. My dog developed Cushing's and then anal cancer. I felt both times like it was the end of the world and was stressed for weeks. The Cushing's treatment could have killed her from the first dose but no alternatives worked for her. I had to accept the medicine but it wasn't until nothing bad happened for several weeks that I calmed down. She survived the medicine and flourished but the cancer got her after four months. That was nearly two years ago and I still cry when thinking of her. I have a new dog who is wonderful but I still have not bonded as much as I would like but it is early days. I am hoping if I can 100% embrace this diet I will lift my depression, lose weight, ditch the aches and pains and other health niggles like brain fog and lack of energy and motivation. You seem to have had a lot of good results mentally and physically. I worry so much about so many things which is such a waste of time and energy. I vacillated between high starch, low fat and high fat, low carb for several years. I can't stick to high starch low fat. The cravings get me. However I followed Dr Greger and his teachings and believed that he just had to be right. Then I believed the other side. Back and forth, over and over again. It has taken a long time but I am firmly in the hflc camp now. The numbers prove it's a healthier diet too. Seems the LCHS people have troubles with high triglycerides, bad cholesterol ratios too. Not all to be fair but enough to think what is going on. Well I know know what is going on.I just feel so much calmer and free from cravings on hflc with no gut issues apart from constipation. I have to have proper old fashioned porridge each morning and then two meals of HFLC and the constipation isn't an issue. I have a prolapse and daren't get bunged up. I eat plenty of low carb veg with butter. Heaven! I love fat. Sorry to have rattled on but you have given me hope seeing as we are the same age.

  • I suspect that insulin resistance breeds candida. All that excess glucose in the blood to feed the candida.

    There are tests for candida, but I knew it was highly likely I had it. So I reasoned that a candida cleanse would do little harm in the unlikely event that I did not and went ahead without the expensive and unreliable tests.

    The counsel of perfection is to do a parasite cleanse first, before the candida cleanse. I did, but mostly because I was suffering from TMJ. I did then order the Humaworm candida cleanse (she is highly respected as far as I can tell, but I understand that she tends to delete feedback about bad side effects, which I find disturbing). Anyway, half way through the candida cleanse I could decline sugar - and it has become easier as time has gone on. I still get the munchies, and six months ago that would have ended with me putting sugar in my mouth unthinkingly. Now I either resist or I eat something more acceptable like cheese or ham.

    Dogs are my substitute toddlers, and my emotions around them are pretty similar. No, I do treat them like dogs and not babies, because I know that is kinder (and I wasn't overly indulgent with my real toddlers either!) but I recognise the part they play in my emotional life. Remember that the way you felt about the old dog took years to develop. When we got number 2 I felt dreadfully guilty because I didn't love him as I did my first dog, Tiger (my avatar dog). But as time went on I loved him more and more, albeit differently because he was such a different character. Tiger died four years ago, and I went to 'his' pond in the woods yesterday and shed a few tears. I do wonder how I will find space for all the grief, because I am sure not going to stop having dogs. Seamus, No 2 died too young a year ago, and I had devoted myself to his care for his last year, with vet visits, hydrotherapy, separate walks, protecting him carefully from impatient younger dogs. There is still a huge hole in my life, even though I love these two. Its not mutually exclusive!

    You could try homoeopathic ignatia 30c, available from Ainsworth's or Helios. It doesn't stop you being sad, just helps you cope so you aren't in floods of tears at inopportune moments!

    Of course you can embrace the new way of eating 100%. It would be much easier if you dealt with the candida though. I am at the stage now that falling off the wagon is unthinkable - it would be like willingly condemning myself to the old droopy, anxious way! Of course I think of sugar and carbs, who wouldn't when you hear about delicious (I mean really delicious, not junk food addictive) food. But I know they aren't for me, and I don't mind enough to be stupid. Its taken a shade over 4 months to get there.

    I think if we did a poll we would find most of our members have latched on to new and promising diets/supplements/ exercise regimes. I don't know about you, but I haven't stuck to any of them for very long, because the rewards were just not great enough. We just got disappointed again, and wasted yet more money. Keto has been so different.

    You can make a low carb porridge with chia seeds (and some ground flax helps too) and almond milk. Just soak for at least half an hour before cooking. That will cut out so many carbs and I am sure would help because oats are bad on so many levels. Not only do you give yourself a huge hit of carbs, which will turn to sugar and set off the insulin roller-coaster for the day, but also they contain gluten and other hard to digest proteins. Constipation has been an intermittent issue for me, but is fine as long as I stick to the chia porridge. My only problem is that I never had salt on real porridge, and I really want it sweet. I use cinnamon as a natural sweetener and that seems to be OK. There are plenty of preventatives, the trick is not to let it get out of hand - one missed dump and throw everything at it!

    Maybe, given the concern you have with constipation you could convert gradually, so you can guage exactly how much you need in the way of Chia and/or flax meal. Chia has more carbs, but tastes nicer in my book!

  • Thank you for reading and replying to my very long post. Wow, 21 dogs! I am on my eighth. We always had two together for company after number one, but this time I can neither afford nor want two. (I am on my own now after my husband died nearly seven years ago). I have a dog walker come once a week so my girl can run with other dogs and have some fun. I just ordered some Citricidal for the suspected Candida overgrowth. I read up on your Humaworm on CureZone but I don't think it is for me! Sorry to say I disagree with you re porridge! I did a lot of reading up on it to see if it affected blood glucose levels etc. I have a handful of blueberries and a tsp of cinnamon for the health benefits and the taste. I don't have the guts to abandon my porridge for the time being even though it takes for ages to cook in the morning. Oats don't have gluten in them unless it is adulterated in the factory. I use steel cut oats as they are less processed and have the fibre and nutrients I am after. I used to jump on every diet and supplement band wagon possible a few years ago. Thank goodness I have grown out of that. I do take Vitamin D and its partner K2 because I rarely get any sun.

    You're so right about my feelings for my present dog. I had my last two for many years and we knew each other inside out and I loved them dearly. It takes time to form that understanding and strong bond and I remember with my last dog wishing I hadn't got her for the first few months. I went through that with this one too but as the days pass I am getting fonder and fonder of her. Luckily she has a temperament to die for and is very affectionate. She loves everybody and all dogs too even if they growl at her for being too bouncy. I have been very lucky with her. She is easy to train, obedient and loves learning. Her only fault is that she can go from calm to over excited and bouncy in a nano second. Her mother is very excitable too but has calmed down a lot as she has passed two years old. I too treat my dogs as dogs. Can't stand people who think dogs are substitute children and dress them up and molly coddle them. I want my GSD to be my best friend and companion and enjoy muddy walks in the winter. Still we are all different.

    I tried Ignatia for grief many years ago but I can't remember if it helped. I am not one for doctors and keep well away. They have never helped me and I prefer to try and help myself. I won't take pills anyway. However I am sure if I got scared enough I would go running off bleating to the doctor.

    I am very determined to eat your way, apart from the porridge,at least until I have kept off the sugar and processed foods for a few weeks. Thank you again for your help. I really appreciate it.

  • No, not 21 dogs! I currently have two - maximum has been 3 (with foster pups we went up to six plus for a weekend a friend's visiting dog who was so upset she weed on my bed!) !

    We've fostered loads of rescue doggies. Including THE PUPPIES and we still have the chewed books to show for it! No longer possible with reactive Reggie who still has his plums on vet advice. Only one foster dog stayed, little Jimmy the 6 kilo vet eater. He was adopted by our then younger dog, who sadly is now at rainbow bridge. A great loss to us all, but especially to Jimmy.

    We will have to disagree about the oats. And unless guaranteed GF they can be contaminated in the field. I am gluten sensitive (no longer an issue, but I was GF but eating grains for six years) and oats actually affected me more than wheat. Barley was the worst of the lot! The problem with all grains is that even if they have no gluten, they do have closely related proteins called gliadins.

    What I will say is that apart from whether your insulin spikes, the carbs in oats will be more than enough to prevent ketosis. And until you have experienced that, you will never know if you are missing something.

  • Oh sorry I misread your sentence. I read 21 dogs instead of 2. I .....duh! It's so nice you have fostered dogs. I don't have the confidence to have a rescue or foster. I like to have an eight week old pup that I can bring up the way I want and not deal with an older dog. I see you have fostered puppies. Bet that was fun unless you were a book!

    You mentioned gliadin in oats. Oddly enough I have read the books on the evils of grains and yesterday I watched a BBC 2 programme with a doctor who went to the States and spoke with the Wheat Belly guy. He told the anti grain guy that nothing has been proved scientifically that gliadins are a problem with ordinary people. He also went to the PH guy who has people stay to cure them of cancer. He is looking at a prison sentance as people have died. I long ago found out that the body closely regulates PH whatever we eat so I never bothered with that. However I bought myself some sausages today so tomorrow instead of porridge I am going to have fried eggs, bacon and sausages. That will stop me craving for hours. Porridge seems to make me want to eat cakes and biscuits etc. You know why I eat it! I don't actually enjoy it.

    Lucky Reggie to still have his plums! He sounds like a handful though especially for the vet. Luckily all my dogs have been great with the vets but two of them used to shake. The one I have now thinks everyone is there for her pleasure including my lovely vet. I am so lucky with her. I had looked at adverts for several months even though I said I was too old for another dog but when I saw her advert I just knew she was my dog. It felt like I was told to buy her. Silly to other people but true.

  • I'm not a fan of the wheat belly guy. But there is plenty of evidence against grains of all sorts, I'm not sure if it points specifically to gliadins or if its an assumption - I'll have to read Grain Brain again. I certainly react to all of them, but rice was the least worst.

    I'm not too keen on the hard work of puppies - and have fostered both easy and challenging dogs. The worse they are, the more satisfying the task. And I look at all the perfectly nice dogs that end up in pounds because their feckless owners couldn't be bothered to train them, and I can't let one of them die because I fancy a puppy. Reggie is probably the worst case I've encountered and even he has improved immeasurably, and probably has been no more work than a puppy would have been. Jimmy thinks vets are for breakfast and has to be muzzled, but then I muzzle him when I do scary things to him, not fair to ask him to make difficult decisions!

  • It's Dr Davis I think who is the wheat belly guy. He does talk about gliadins but without the scientific backup which to me is deceitful and wrong. When you think of the influence these guys have they should be 100% sure they can quote good peer reviewed studies. I used to fall for it all but then you realise that both high starch low fat vegan and high fat low carb site loads of studies and say each other's diets are wrong and will make you sick, give you cancer etc. it somehow makes you feel they are either both right or both wrong. Both diets seem to help with diabetes but as I said before the paleo mob seem to get better numbers.

    I do congratulate you with how you have dealt with dogs needing help. I do agree that a dog that is more challenging gives you a better feeling of accomplishment. My dogs have all been GSDs and three Labs both of which breeds are easily trained and obedient but some have been easier than others. Once you get that partnership then everything comes easy. Someone was saying to me only today that people don't train their dogs or their children these days. A well trained dog is a joy to own. Sounds like you have a good partnership with Reggie.

  • That's him. I dislike the fact he starts off talking about wheat, and then lumps other grains in. I dislike his lack of science, and is cherry picking of studies to support his thesis. I dislike that he calls himself a doctor, but never quotes is qualifications.

    Grain Brain by David Perlmutter is a whole different ball game. Perlmutter is a proper doctor and proud of it. The book is well argued and supported both by research and his own experience.

  • Yes I liked Grain Brain too and found it well written and researched. I had bacon omelette for breakfast today and didn't have visions of chocolate and cakes all morning. With porridge I want to eat everything sugary and carby I can find. It is amazing the difference and just proves that people like me aren't greedy and lazy, we are carb intolerant and the only way to stop it is to confine the carbs to the bin.

  • We just weren't designed to eat loads of carbs. Wild man would dig up a few tubers, and have an occasional feast of fruit or nuts, but staples were meat/fish/eggs and leafy stuff. I spent a fascinating day with some Kalahari Bushmen, talking about their traditional way of life. Stone age, no agriculture, and very low carbs. Obesity, diabetes and tooth decay were all unknown until they were forced into a modern life. In Botswana hunting wild animals is now illegal, so they have to rely on modern foods. The wildlife has taken quite enough of a beating, but its sad for the Bushmen.

    Anyway, it just backs up my argument that we didn't evolve to eat a carb heavy diet. Some lucky people, as a result of genetics and healthy lifestyle, are able to survive it. But If you eat loads of carbs, more or less constantly through the day, your poor old system doesn't stand a chance.

    Chia porridge is the way. I've managed to kick all my other strategies for dealing with constipation into the emergency drawer. As long as I have it I am fine. Its high in fibre and protein, low in carbs. And with ham and/or cheese, you don't even need sweetener. Mix your bacon and eggs into it, and you won't need to eat until evening!

    I suspect it would make something akin to polenta if I gave it a chance, but I have not experimented yet.

  • How amazing to talk to Kalahari Bushmen. Lucky you. I do agree with you that although we would have eaten carbs they would have been roots and tubers. To be honest I imagine whatever we could have found that was edible would have been eaten. Overloading our systems with processed carbs is the norm these days. Some days, most days to be honest, that is all I eat. I am trying to increase the good stuff and decrease the bad so hopefully in a few weeks I will have ditched the bad. I am failing miserably to go cold turkey. My Citricidal turned up today so I shall be hitting the Candida overgrowth starting tomorrow. I am hoping the cravings will decrease as the Candida die off.

    Would you tell me how to make the Chia porridge? I have had Chia but I soaked the seeds overnight to stop constipation. I seem to remember putting in a jar and having a couple of tablespoons a day.

  • 2tbs chia seeds, 2 tbs ground flax seeds, 150ml home made almond milk stir well. Soak for at least 30 minutes. Microwave for 2.5 minutes. Stir again.

    You can either add sweetener, cream and cinnamon, or add whatever savoury things you fancy. Ham and cheese is good. So is

    2.2 grams net carbs in the porridge.

    Not sure how effective citricidal is against candida. It seems to be a bactericide too, which is not what you want. I used a herbal preparation by Humaworm, but it took a long time to come from Canada and I would probably use Elle Belle now, or CCWS. But as long as my sugar cravings are milk I'm not too troubled, altough I did have stringy poo for a day or two. It'll be interesting to hear how it goes.

    I didn't go cold turkey. I quit sugar first, then carb dense foods, then I realised that they were hidden all over the place and started to study carb content thoroughly. I had no idea I would get hooked on feeling good!

  • Thanks for the recipe. I can't say I am looking forward to eating it but I have ordered the Chia seeds. The Citricidal seems to have good reviews or testimonials for getting rid of Candida overgrowth. My problem is going to be taking it. I get fired up about things and then lose interest. However I need to sort my health out asap. For me it is better to go cold turkey like I did all those years ago with smoking. I just wish I could feel as good as you straight away just for a day, then I would certainly be motivated. I have got used to feeling under par all the time.

  • As far as I've researched, eating gluten is like "throwing petrol on the fire of auto immune disease" and most practitioners will recommend you avoid it. Dairy is probably the 2nd culprit so they are likely to suggest you cut that out too? Has your therapist actually done any thyroid antibody testing to back up asking you to eliminate all these food options though?

  • Thanks, no she went on symptoms. A two hour dietry consultation cost £95, the supplements for thyroid and candida, and a carton of almond milk cost £70... Expensive day!!! Thyroid testing is over £100 more and intolerance testing costs another £145. This is not good for my budget. I think the intolerance testing would give me the best picture but the costs are an issue.

  • I saw a Nutritionist (£150 just for a chat) who initially just suggested I take an excellent probiotic and Vit D as my levels were low, and next step is for me to have private blood antibody testing (I'm in the UK). It might cost £200-300 but she says will give me a better picture of what is going on - there is certainly no need to eliminate so many food groups 'just incase'! You could try reducing them though and save up for the antibody testing???? If any of the Administrators are reading this i would be interested to know if they think full anti-body testing is worth paying for?

  • KatherineM_PBC,

    By full antibody testing do you mean thyroid peroxidase and thyoglobulin antibodies? I think they are worth testing but if cost is an issue one can simply assume one has auto immune thyroiditis (Hashimoto's) which causes 90% of hypothyroidism and exclude gluten as a trial to see whether symptoms improve.

  • I use the Blue Horizon Thyroid 11 test £99 and definitely think it is worth it.

    Not sure which antibodies you want tested for but it does a couple if thyroid antibodies.

    bluehorizonmedicals.co.uk/T...

  • I wouldn't say my diet is CLEAN but I went totally glutenfree over a year ago as an experiment to see if I could reduce my thyroid antibodies - plus the fact I had just developed inflammatory arthritis- yet another autoimmune condition, it worked amazingly well so I'm still GF.

    I don't eat processed foods, everything is cooked from scratch, I don't eat junk food - not even GF junk food, I don't drink fizzy drinks and I rarely eat sweets - maybe a squire of very dark chocolate. I eat loads of unsalted nuts now, fish two or three times a week, chicken and probably only eat red meat once a week although I still eat it. Loads of green veg and Mediterranean vegetables too. I use olive oil or butter to cook, I've tried coconut oil but I really couldn't get to like things cooked in it so I've given up.

    I tend not to take a lot of dairy products but I'm not on a dairy free diet so although I drink my tea and coffee (decaf!) black - I had long since given up on milk in drinks when I worked in a job where they only bought long life milk for our daily drinks - yuk! I eat cream, cheese and butter when I feel like it. I am not on a sugar free diet but I tend not have a lot of sugar in my diet either.

    I lost a huge amount of weight just over a year ago when I developed T2diabetes when I was taking steroids for my arthritis, so I bought a book about how to reverse it through diet, bought a blood sugar meter and worked on eliminating the foods that spiked my blood sugar from my diet - basically anything at all that involved any kind of grain be it GF or regular grain, so oatcakes were out along with my favourite oat bran breakfast muffins, jacket potatoes, parsnips, mashed potatoes

  • Thanks, that info was very helpful and seems more do-able than other regimes especially the one I've been recommended. I can do the gluten, yeast and sugar, but it's the milk which I struggle with for my hot drinks. If all grains are out, what do you have for breakfast and lunch? Main meals are easy but the thought of meat/fish and veg before evening has always put me off. I too really only like a fruit breakfast muffin until my evening meal.

  • For breakfast I have a two egg omelette with blueberries or mushrooms or spinach if I want to push the boat out I'll make an omelette with a mashed up rioe banana, very tasty but a bit carby really do I don't do it often plus half a pink grapefruit and a cup of tea or coffee plus a glass or water. If I'm away and staying in a hotel I'll have grilled bacon and a fried egg with mushrooms and grilled tomatoes,

    For lunch if I'm at home I'll have soup - home made mushroom or chicken and a handful of nuts and seeds. If I'm out and about I'll take nuts and have them with a coffee or I might pick up some cooked chicken from M&S or somewhere like that.

    My other half was horrified when I had soup for breakfast one morning and when my son was home I made him a banana omelette but he said it was like a pancake and I'm not sure he would have it again, I think he thought it was too weird for breakfast, don't know why though.

    Should have said my diet is low carb, high fat plus it is gluten free.

    I've stuck on this regime for over a year because I like everything I am able to eat. If I want to I will eat a bit of GF brownie, even though it is not on the eating plan, if I didn't like what I was eating I know I couldn't stick to how I eat. I looked at Amy Myers eating plan but I knew I wouldn't like most of lthe food so it wasn't worth even starting.

  • Well, to start my diet, I have used up the pudding rice on my grandmother's wonderful creamy rice pudding for the last time:( Can't believe she lived on this basically and disliked much meat/ veg type meals. She survived on dairy foods mainly, was fit as a fiddle, sharp as a tool mentally, could run up stairs in her 90's and died in her late 90's of a broken heart when my grandfather died. Not fair really... like her food preferences but without her constitution sadly :/

  • I've just read that organic milk is recommended on a low carb diet to aid energy when exercising if taken in moderation. That's good news for me. Also a natural sweetner Stevia (pure liquid form only) has a GI of 0, and has proven to have health benefits like lower blood pressure and blood glucose and limited anti-inflammatory benefits...seems like I could have a Stevia sweetened cocoa once in a while. I really need to get a dairy intolerance test done before adding small amounts of dairy to my clean diet.

  • It must be really tough if you like milk in your drinks. Definitely worth being tested to see if you have an allergy to dairy products. In fact it's worth being tested before you cut anything out or take vitamins - although I did my GF myself because it's only gluten I've cut out - I eat a very varied diet and I eat like a horse.

    I find when we're out and order a flat white or a cappuccino and a black decaf the waitress always tries to give my husband the black coffee. They all seem to think a woman will want the milky drink 😉

  • Thanks to everyone that replied to my question, all input has been very helpful and after considering all info , I will draw things from each one as well as the therapist I've seen to start a journey to a healthier eating plan. Seems like intolerance testing is my next step, need to raid the piggy bank once again. This journey to health is expensive even in Britain 🤔. Hopefully will be worth it 😊

  • Good luck. However, from everything I've read food intolerance testing is inaccurate and will just flag up whichever foods you've eaten recently. Better to save your money and do it by elimination and reintroduction and keeping a food diary.

    I believe lactose intolerance can be tested by the GP but probably only if it's causing obvious symptoms. A2 milk is nicer and easier to digest than regular milk (still contains lactose) and you can buy it in Waitrose and Sainsbury's etc.

  • I've never heard of a GP in the UK testing the random people I know who are lactose intolerance. They tend to go on symptoms even in babies. Though with babies and young children they are more inclined to refer them on to a paediatrician if possible.

  • I agree, I've never found GPs remotely interested, although according to this testing is available:

    nhs.uk/Conditions/lactose-i...

  • Just one more thing, changing your diet changes your microbiome so better to change diet gradually over a couple of weeks rather than make sudden changes to give your system time to adjust. Also make sure you get plenty of plant fibre to make up for fibre lost from wheat.

  • This is a great thread. Thanks for posting. I am borderline hypo but have felt unwell for some while. A year ago I went ketogenic and it did help my symptoms (pains and migraine; fatigue and some tingling and numbness). Then I strayed over the winter when we had a succession of bereavements in the family and life was all over the place. I started to feel quite unwell again and now hypo is suspected (I am being baselines) so this has inspired me to get back on track.

    I would love to know if anyone reduced their antibodies/TSH as I do want a confirmed diagnosis (if one is to be found!) so I don't want to scupper that. And yet I do want to have a crack At dealing with it naturally whatever the outcome (within reason).

    PS OP I am reading the terry wahls book which has much more low carb veg (9 cups!) than a traditional ketogenic diet but the addition of lots of good fats and MCT oil (which are metabolised straight into ketone bodies for energy by the body) and a long overnight fasting window to keep the level of ketone bodies high in the blood throughout the day without curbing carbs massively. The addition of MCT means that ATP conversion stays at an optimum even if sugars from veg are higher. This keeps nutrition from food (veg) at high level at the same time as remaining in a ketogenic state. Terry wahls feels this turned her MS around. The bulletproof diet is another similar one which I used last year to guide me initially.

  • Over a year my thyroid antibodies came down from

    Thyroglobulin Antibodies 333.0 - (0 - 115)

    Thyroidperoxidase antibodies 33.4 (34.0)

    To

    Thyroglobulin Antibodies 51.6 <115

    Thyroidperoxidase antibodies 12.6 < 34

    They came down steadily over a year of being totally gluten free - I have not knowingly eaten anything that was not gluten free since I started. So for me it's been worth while.

    I also stopped taking Omeprazole - had an indefinite, no questions asked prescription for that. Think the combination of being totally GF, no junk food, no Diet Coke and limiting my chocolate intake to an odd square of very dark chocolate every now and again as opposed to loads of Diet Coke and a couple of bars of fruit and nut every day.

  • wow. That's amazing. Thanks for posting. Worth the sacrifice!

  • Oh my sorry about my spelling. I've not had my coffee yet!

  • I went autoimmune paleo elimination diet 15 months ago. After a month gradually started reintroducing some foods and am now tolerant to a more varied diet. My symptoms are in 90% remission though am still struggling to try and get my antibodies down. It also gave me a great boost to my energy and vitality. I personally think this is the way to go - eliminate everything to find out what you are intolerant to and have your body tell you what works for it.

    Tyrone

  • This is very encouraging and it is what I am wanting to do but I think it means no eggs or butter (my only dairy) and ditching the 85% chocolate. My only vices at the moment! I am working up to it!

  • I'm back on moderate eggs, dairy and good chocolate. Off gluten, soy completely and have a problem with whole red meat. Yesterday had a Muller Rice and had a big reaction - it's not the rice or the dairy which am OK with so think it must have been all their additives.

    I worked to Chris Kressers book which is excellent.

    Good luck with it.

    Tyrone

  • Muller rice and yoghurts are full of junk. You would be better of making your own rice pudding.

  • I have just been diagnosed with an inactive thyroid, 4 weeks ago. I have read all your comments and have been shocked, because I realise I'm not the only one suffering. I have been allergic to yeast for years, when I crave bread I will eat sourdough. I have bad hayfever, it started in January this year. I have the nose drip problem even when the season is finished. Beef, lamb and especially pork give me serious reactions as well, for obvious reasons I steer clear of those meats. The information I've read from your posts has been enlightening. But there's been mention of lactose effecting people's health. I'm taking Levothyroxine, 50 mg, which was prescribed nearly 6 weeks ago. The last few days I've had extricating back pain and pain at the top of my legs. The leaflet does not mention this type of side effect. But I am wondering if because of stress to my body, whether I'm having a recurrence of shingles. I had that 20 odd yrs ago and the back pain is in exactly the same place. I know sometimes no shingle spots will show. I'm having my first blood check test on Tuesday since I've started the Levothyroxine. I have a list of pros and cons which have emerged to quickly discuss with the nurse or doctor in my follow up call. Does it make sense that a bout of mild shingles may return? Thank you for posting such useful information.

  • My post should state under active thyroid not inactive!

  • Yes so many of us are struggling due to a lack of care and empathy from our health system and poor food industry practices. My mother is the only person I know who is hypo and is symptom free on her levo and eats the normal western diet, but she is probably the execption. With hypo your immunity resistence is very low and therefore you are prone to virus', infections and illnesses. I have had sinus and postnasal drip and often feel like death warmed with these, this is how I have been recommended the CLEAN diet. As it is very drastic I wanted to see if other hypo sufferers did it with success, hence posting that question. You may have shingles as your immunity is probably compromised. Badger your doctor to get to the bottom of it, but beware, any mention of thyroid possible complications they may go into a medical melt down. Thyroidism is very low on health system list and is like a virus to the medical world, its a growing population but due to lack of research, training and money, their answer is supression & denial rather than preventiion, cure and or proper management. All the best, your not alone!

  • Your post nasal drip is either symptoms of allergy to dust mites OR you have vasomotor rhinitis.

    With vasomotor rhinitis it is often caused by your body initiating a immune response to pollution, perfumes including in cleaning products and air fresheners, changes in temperature, pressure changes in the weather e.g. due to rain, food you have eaten or hormone changes if you are still menstruating. Unfortunately it is left to you to work out the cause of it - best done by making a note in a diary of when your nose goes mad - and then try to eliminate those things in your environment.

    You also need to tell your doctor you have it now as sometimes people end up with polyps or swollen turbinates due to it leading to difficulty breathing so need surgical intervention.

    Some GPs, to save money, are very reluctant to refer people to ENT so take longer than they should in doing so. They are likely to prescribe you anti-histamines and steroid sprays both of which you can buy cheaply over the counter as they are for hayfever. However if you have multiple nasal polyps, a large nasal polyp or very swollen turbinates that effects breathing through your nose and you lose your sense of smell, no amount of steroids are going to decrease them.

    Apart from avoiding the things that cause your nose to drip you need to ensure your thyroid is adequately medicated and your vitamin levels are optimal, as these will strengthen your immune system.

  • Bluebug

    I have had sinus, nasal drip for years now and can source the beginning of the issue after a bout of unwellness following catching MRSA off a patient when I was working for the NHS years ago. The super bug was live in my upper nasal area and so hard to eliminate. Manuka honey kills it but that's a tad difficult to stick that into your sinus cavities. I know I have candida from symptoms and research Ive been doing, my therapist confirms it too. Fungal sinus, post nasal drip is a common symptom with long term candida, so with diet and treatment of that, I'm hoping will help, also therapist states going dairy free will eleviate it too. Remaining hopeful!

  • Some people find going dairy free helps others find it makes absolutely no difference. Though in my case I couldn't eliminate what I avoided already.

    Anyway I noticed @Pauline10 has an immune system problem due to recurrent shingles which is why I didn't mention bacteria and fungi. Often those with poor immunity end up with post nasal drip, however you need to mention it plus the recurrent other illnesses to medical professionals before it clicks in someone head what it is.

  • twinmommy Very interesting thread. I started my Hypo uncovering in Dec 16. I am on Levo 75 mcg just shy of 5 weeks. When I joined the forum at the beginning of Jan I took on board pretty much all of the advice. Got antibodies tested to confirm Hashi's.

    What have I changed? No alchohol, no sugar, no coffee, tea with skimmed milk, no processed foods or additives, totally grain free (no gluten free substitutes), make Kefir with whole milk, INCREASED fats, eat plenty of veg, fish, meat (liver 2 times), eggs, have bone broth 2 times weekly, have some fruit, take supplements B's D3/K2 selenium, mag oil/citrate.

    Many of my symptoms have melted away including post nasal drip and sinus issues (I kept dairy), lower back pain, icy cold feet,low mood, and some are starting to get better: feeling vigour and motivation, less tired and more energy, though still get exhausted if I overdo it.

    I am totally surprised that the improvements started gradually after about 2 weeks - of course the levo helps but I believe the other changes have helped too.

    Will I go back to old diet? No way, haven't felt this good in 6 months and this is just early days. Though I realise there will come a time when I cheat for a special occasion or whatever when choice is not available.

    It gets easier every day.

    I have to zip my evangelical gob now because I don't want to be a diet Bore! But it's almost unbelievable, you just have to try it 😊

  • Thanks! It gives me hope and more willingness to give it a go, especially when you said your nasal issues went, those and difficulty loosing those few extra pounds after my twins are a real headache for me. I will keep drinking my decaf coffee though.

  • The sinus / PND change has been such a great feeling. It also means that I don't continue to aggravate my stomach with medication - decongestants / ibuprofen and have stopped the Beconase (?sp) nasal spray. I actually went to my GP in Sept because I had had enough of PND for the last 5 plus years and that was when she suggested the Beconase. But the minute I stopped it came flooding back. PND was a permanent miserable feature of my life, and as you'll know, ever worse after even a mild cold.

    Wishing you success in getting your wellness back :)

  • Hi Pauline I'm new here also, but I think you may find a new thread could get your question answered more readily; about side effects/shingles...

  • Sedgie, what do they mean by baselining? They should have taken your baseline years ago when you were well for it to be meaningful!

  • I think that's the word used. I had TSH of 3 last year and no action of course the , 5.1 last month and so they are taking another next month to see if there is a trend and antibodies etc. My T4 was low end of normal.

    I have chronic migraines, periods of crushing fatigue, high BP, inflammation in my upper body periodically (muscular skeletal) and tingling and numbness in my fingers and toes. I've always felt the cold. I own 4 down coats and one I bought to wear in the house haha!

    There's a family history of hypothyroid at my age. I don't have a weight problem. This all started about three years ago when my last baby was 10 months. I'm quite suspicious of hypothyroid but willing to do absolutely anything diet wise if it will help. Ketogenic eating helped my migraines last year. I lost two family members recently and strayed from 'normal' eating habits and trying to get back however... I didn't want to bring my antibodies or other results down whilst they are running tests as I want a diagnosis as I've struggled so much for theee years I would like an explanation; on the other hand I am so impatient to be well. I've cut sugar dead thanks to your messages I'm grain free anyway and I'm looking at dairy next as that will give the runs sometimes I think I'm ok with butter though (love BPC!)

    Thanks for your helpful posts 😊

  • OK, well my suspicion is that your TSH is up and down because you have Hashimoto's disease, and that is a hallmark. You need to persuade them to test antibodies. Or go private.

    And when you have your test then make sure its a fasting test first thing in the morning. TSH varies through the day, and is at its highest on waking. Someone else might be able to say how much it varies during the day.

    What about B12? Has that been tested? Fatigue and numbness are both hallmarks of deficiency.

  • Thanks, I suspect the same. I have periods when I feel well then it descends on me and I'm down for sometimes 2-3 wks. Yes he has ordered antibodies I asked last week I think possibly b12.

    I wonder if I could bring that result down with strict diet, what do you think? I've been doing all sorts, mega dosing ok vitamin C even a sunbed just to blindly try and feel better. Now I've dropped that stuff except for a couple supplements and watching my diet. Would that influence my tests next month?

    Nothing would possess me to eat gluten but I was going to go strictly diary and sugar free between now and my tests (3/4 wks time) I'll go first thing for sure.

  • Hi twinmommy

    I have been vegan and sugar-free for decades and for over a year yeast free, gluten free and soya free - I do not feel 100 x better!!!

    My TFTs are dire at the moment though so if you could remind me in two to three months (when changed meds should have made a difference) I'll let you know.

    Wouldn't it be worth trying for a few months anyway because it would be marvellous if you were better? By way of encouragement, in my experience the longer you follow these restricted diets the easier it becomes and you stop missing other foods.

    Best of luck!

  • Hello Twinmommy, I went to see a homeopath 5 years ago, she did kinesiology to test for food sensitivities and I discovered I had many. I restrained from them for a month and then was able to eat those foods again. The one thing that she said most people once they have an intolerance for rarely are able to go back to eating is gluten (grains). I at the time stayed off all gluten and in the end sugar and took homeopathic remedies and also some oregano oil. I started to do some exercise (dancing) and eventually when taking the dog for a walk I found I had so much energy back I was jogging all around the hills (I was never a runner, even as a child), I lost a lot of weight and felt great, I even reduced my meds 100mg to 75mg (during this time I did go to a chinese herbalist doctor, so it may have been a factor to the improvement too). A year or two down the line I became complacent, I met my partner who loves his carbohydrates, stodge, pasta and so I cooked one meal that suited both of us. I felt ok on pasta and bread again and really thought I had healed the route cause. It wasn't that way and recently I've been processing badly. My thyroid levels are up and down, I've gained a stone and a half in weight, starting to get a little emotional and waking up with night sweats.

    I've been reading lots and discovered that 98% of Hypothyroid problems are autoimmune (I do have vitiligo) and our autoimmune is regulated in the gut. I remember my homeopath saying those years back that I had a leaky gut and needed to heal it. So I guessed it flared up when I reverted back to my old diet. I've been reading Dr Isabella Wentz and her protocols, which do state to stop eating gluten, dairy, sugar and soya products. I also met someone with a form of bioflavonoids that helps get rid of candida (not that I am aware that I have it, but i heard it can upset the gut wall lining), so I've now got the get up and go to follow an elimination diet again in a determined attempt to sort this out. I've been keeping a food diary as my tummy bloats and reacts now to many foods. It's difficult as you are meant to eat a high protein diet and I've been vegetarian for years (i'm actually now starting to eat a little meat). I found a good Candida diet page (which is similar to a gluten, dairy, sugar and soya free diet), I found this nice recipe page thecandidadiet.com/candida-... It really has helped and I'm starting to feel better again. I will keep to this for three weeks or so and then I will buy some L-Glutamin which I'm told helps to heal leaky gut.

    I'm also, but not regimentally, taking Vit D with K2, B12, Magnesium, Selenium, Zinc, Boron, probiotics. I also have started to make my own fermented products, such as sourcroute and kimchi.

    I hope this helps, my stomach is very sensitive, I do hope to be able to heal it completely, as I do love bread and food.

    Just to add, over my healing journey the past ten years, I've done a parasite cleanse, liver detox, liver flushes, kidney detox, I've seen a bio dentist to replace my mercury fillings and have been to various spiritual practices until I've found one meditative practice that works for me. The recovery journey feels like a long road, but it's a blessing in disguise, it's made us wake up to a lot of things and more aware of our bodies.

    Wishing you all the best, your therapist sounds amazing, good luck and would love to know how you get on.

    Lucy

    p.s. I just thought of one other thing, when I first became gluten free and sugar free, it was difficult as it's in all processed food, used to cheaply bulk up products. They even put Soya in chocolate now!!!? I found the gluten free products worse! They made me feel ill, they are full of glucose syrup or corn syrup, they use other flours, like corn (which a lot of corn now is GMO). I bought a bread machine and started to make my own, although it comes out more like a cake :).

  • Hi Lucy!

    Many thanks! Seems like I'm going to have to knuckle down and get on with it. I am going to find it hard, because I like rich sauces especially creamy with my protein, but as my husband has said he'll give it a try with me and given he has the autoimmune disorder Lupus, this can only be better for us. Don't think I can convince my 7yr old twins to cut out all this stuff, but just us is as a start. I do have candida and have paid a fortune for a ton of supplements to get it under control as well as thyroid support, so looking hopeful for the future. Thanks for telling me your story, everyone has been helpful in my queries. All the best to you on your wellness journey! 😊

  • Good on you twinmommy and absolutely lovely that your husband is supporting you.

    The diet will definitely be good for you both. It will be tough at first, as we don't realise the tiredness with the hypothyroid makes us crave sugar, carbohydrates and caffein (catch 22). So initially taking away those ingredients you will feel quite tired, but after a few days you'll start to feel better and even enjoy being creative and trying new things. The candida, I never realised will actually trigger a craving in your body for sugar, as that's what it feeds off (I must say my whole family has a sweet tooth and I loved my cakes). So cutting it out and taking remedies to rid it will make you feel so much better.

    I just tell myself, it's not forever, as many things later down the line you'll be able to re-introduce into your diet. :)

  • That's why I tell people to avoid the gluten free shop brought products. People automatically think gluten free is healthy but forget if they need to bulk up products they will use something else.

  • I know someone wrote on here or maybe it was in the HU Gluten Free Guerillas site that junk food is still junk food whether it's gluten free or not and when I'm hanging around the free from area in Tesco eyeing up all the cakes and biscuit and that sort if stuff I have to remind myself of that.

    My gluten free regime is basically good old home cooking where I know exactly what's in my food and more importantly - what's not.

  • Hi twin mummy

    I can't eat Wheat,Gluten or anything with cornflour in food. It's a nightmare and expensive I can honestly say to you in 6 yrs of being Wheat& Gluten free it has made NO difference to my weight loss or helping my Thyroid levels (sadly) I don't take sugar. To be honest with you if I cut anything else out of my diet, I'll live on green salad!!!' ☹😟😔

    Also we can't eat anything contains Sya as this counteracts the Levothyrocine / Thyrocine.

    I hope this is of help to you? Let me know how you get on

    Karolly🙋🏻😊

  • Thank you for your honesty. I understand how frustrating that must be. If that was the case, I wouldn't bother cutting it all out and enjoy the food. Best wishes to you.

  • Hi I have been self treating my hypothyroidism for 11 years now and I have learned that even with my own T3 solo therapy, changes to my diet were absolutely essential and I have been very well for the last 6 years maintaining this.

    I would never maintain a specific named diet like "Paleo" or "Clean" because I have also spent the last 11 years researching nutritional medicine alongside thyroid self treatment and learned that everyone is different and food sensitivities vary.

    However I have had to remove all sugar (which includes refined or unnatural carbohydrates) all grains and starchy vegetables and all dairy except a little organic butter for cooking.

    The sugar and carbohydrate restriction is essential to balance the blood sugar and aid with insulin resistance and grains are high carbohydrate and contain gluten which can interact badly with thyroid function among loads of other things.

    I personally drink black coffee and tea every day but make sure it is always organic as the processing used in tea and coffee can involve some nasty chemicals.

    I have made these lifestyle choices because I tried everything to get well and realised while logging my HR, BP, temperature and symptoms, before and after meals and morning and evening, that removing these foods made an enormous difference.

    I was 3 and a half stone overweight and have found that maintaining a low carbohydrate, low dairy, real food diet, along with my self medication protocol, helped me lose 3 stone and go from being a couch potato with no self esteem into a confident, normally energetic person with a new job in professional dog walking (among other things).

    Thyroid issues, like many other illnesses can be linked to gut health and treatment needs to take this into account. And I feel that if I had taken these issues more seriously originally, I may have found more success with my original medication.

    While my diet is mostly extremely restricted I maintain that it's what you do most of the time that counts and when I go out with friends or find restricted access to my healthy foods I eat whatever I find available at the time and don't beat myself up about it. And as long as I get back to healthy eating as soon as possible, I find the return of symptoms minimal.

    I hope you find this helpful. I would personally recommend removing one element from your diet at a time (along with sugar) and maintain that for at least 2-3 weeks before you judge any improvements. I would start with all grains and then remove dairy as well. Some people find it can take 3 months or more to totally benefit from the removal of grains but I certainly found it was a life changer.

    P.S. I have had several coeliac tests and they all come up negative so I personally believe that non coeliac gluten sensitivity is very real.

    Good luck!

  • Thank you! I have ordered a T3 test privately. I feel I need to know if that is fine. I started on the paleo type diet together with a bunch of vits and supplements and to be honest since doing it I have felt absolutely terrible and have had a constant migraine type headache for over two weeks and slept the most 1hr a night. I am nearly on my knees and have never felt this bad even when my thyroid was at it's worst. Today I had a few gluten free organic oatcakes and within 1 1/2 hr my headache has subsided. Everything has been too drastic and my body is in melt down. I am going to stick with gluten free, yeast and sugar free but I think I need some gluten free grains and cutback on the supplements apart from vits & mins suitable for thyroid function. I may have resort to a little organic skim milk in my one decaf coffee and one decaf tea at the most a day. I can cut out all other dairy but dislike black hot drinks and the only alternative I can tolerate is coconut milk but as I have never liked coconut, I think I may be intolerant to it in regular doses. I want to do a comprehensive food intolerance test but can't afford to throw anymore money at this private business. Do you know if you can get it done on the NHS more than just gluten and dairy?

  • Well I would definitely suggest you save your money with regards to the gluten tolerance test. I have thrown an absolute fortune at private tests and doctors in my quest to get well and I have learned a lot about where it's worth investing.

    The only worth while test for any intolerance is strict exclusion as a lot of tests are simply not sensitive enough. This goes for most stuff that I can think of.

    The terrible response you have experienced after going Paleo was probably your body detoxing from all the rubbish that processed food and grains contain and the rebalancing of your blood sugar levels.

    Remember that grains are refined carbohydrate that are converted quickly to glucose by the body so it's not just the effect of gluten causing bad things to happen, it's the destabilising of your blood sugar.

    When you remove a large proportion of sugar from your diet (ie sugar and grains) the body goes through a transitionary phase of switching from burning glucose to burning fat. If you don't replace the glucose/carbohydrate immediately and effectively you can suffer extreme fatigue and terrible headaches.

    The best way to help this transition is to increase good fats in the diet by eating cold olive oil (never use for cooking), avocados, coconut oil, avocado oil and organic butter or duck fat for cooking and oily fish, organic eggs and fresh meat.

    The problem with sticking to diets like Paleo is that it doesn't allow you to eat any dairy and this isn't actually a problem for everyone. Switching to organic butter and milk and cutting down the quantities is a better approach to start with.

    The fact that you had a bad reaction to the diet was actually a very good test because it shows that you really need to do it!

    Paleo is actually way too high carbohydrate for me and doesn't help to stabilise blood sugar so I would suggest you forget the named diets and start eating real food that just looks like it has just been growing or walking the earth!

    With regard to the T3 I would also say save your money! change one thing at a time and the most important thing I have learned is that the diet is the absolute first thing to do.

    P.S. avoid caffeine free stuff as it has even more processed stuff in it. Caffeine is a perfectly fine thing that will not harm your body unless you overdo it and organic tea and coffee actually has good antioxidants in it. If you want to have a couple of cups a day with a little organic milk in then just go for it, you are more likely to be comfortable with a complete lifestyle change if you choose your battles.

  • Slight edit to comment for minor profanity.

  • I love that term - real food 😚. From now on that's how I'll describe it 'sugar and grain free and REAL food'.

    So obvious but so true.

  • Hi

    Yes I have done this fully for six months now.

    Great results in terms of inflammation, pain, swelling, gut issues. However at the same time I was diagnosed with Addisons b12 deficiency and thyroid issues too! I had massive food intolerances and unable to digest food properly, thus causing malnutrition as not absorbing nutrients. I'm vegetarian and didn't eat much processed food any way, also wheat , gluten free.

    Flip side before the diagnosis came through I had full symptoms of MS, which has now all disappeared due to the diet, which came before the Hydrocortisone and T4!

    It was quite difficult to start with but with new liked recipes and adapting tastes it works really well now. It does mean slow cooking from scratch, no processed foods. That in itself is too a better choice.

    I would recommend it to anyone who has inflammation, joint pains, swelling, gut issues, that's for sure. It can only do the body good as there is so much toxic waste in our foods now.

    I found Spirilina and nori helped greatly with thyroid issues, my thyroid problem came back after a few months after I stopped consuming these.

    Hope this helps although I can't comment on the thyroid side of this as I m still in the stage of balancing my meds which as anyone knows can be a bit of a juggling act!

    All the best

    Kelly

  • A "clean" diet is one thing. It's great for someone who doesn't have a thyroid condition. I've had major success with a lot of failure at the beginning. I've had hypothyroidism since age 13 I am now age 30. My highest weight was 265lbs, I am currently 135lbs. When I tell someone I have hypothyroidism(if they know what that is to begin with). I hear "I thought people who have that are fat". Every day every single day I work to maintain a healthy and reasonable weight. If you don't plan on pushing past the fatigue and exercising. That's only half the battle. From my experience they go hand in hand. You can't do one without the other. Not only that you'll have to work triple as hard as someone who has a normal functioning thyroid. You'll have to be mindful of everything you eat and the ingredients.

    The only raw vegetables that should be eaten are carrots, celery, tomatoes everything else cook(steamed if possible). If you are eating meat always get hormone free. Milk as well hormone free and organic. Your goal should be to eat as natural as possible rather than "clean".. The term "clean" is for normal people who want to be healthy. You can't eat "clean" like they can. Raw broccoli made me gain 10lbs and I wasn't eating it with any ranch dressing or anything. No fast food, fried foods, no alcohol, no caffeine, no artificial sugar like cakes and candy, also keep fruit sugar and carbs low. No soy because it mimics hormones. Obviously no BPA because it also mimics hormones.

    Too much sodium will cause swelling and you'll retain water and get that "puffy" look no matter if you exercise or not. I've done this all without the aid of medicine. So it's possible but I'm not going to lie and say it's easy. I'll say if you stick with it, it will become easier. What's not easy is during the holidays people pressing you to try their cake even if you have a medical condition.

    With food you'll have to eat natural NOT raw. Exercise cardio and weight training. Stay away from juice, soda it's just added sugar. Learn to appreciate water after all our bodies are made of water partly not sugar drinks. This isn't about vegetarian or vegan clean diets. It's avoiding outside sources of hormones and or mimicking hormones in the foods.

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