The average wage for a GP is £95,000pa. So if they think they are worth it, why are we all here trying to get better
Did you know?: The average wage for a GP is £9... - Thyroid UK
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Jefner
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55 Replies
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Perhaps they have over-inflated egos. We know most of them are not worth it.
There are a lot who are worth it.
They have a VERY effective trade union!
And in addition to that, they carry huge responsibility, take at least ten years to train(so no pension contributions during that time, or mortgage payments), and have to live with the fact that a simple mistake might kill someone.
It's only 5 years at uni now, I think - less than a vet. Then a couple of years post-grad (GPs aren't specialists). Not really any more than many other professions who don't get as much money. And consider that an overhead lines engineer who supervises others has to retest every YEAR to keep their qualifications. And they can kill themselves and their whole team (and possibly deprive a whole town, including the hospital, of power) every day, too.
That's because vets are expected to treat more than one species! It does seem odd that most of the innovation in human medicine has come from the veterinary world; one only has to think of glucosamine and chondroitin which came from the world of equine and canine medicine and indeed of chiropractice which also had its roots in the equine world. And who could forget the smoking beagles and countless lab rats? Perhaps we'd all be better off going to our local vets although, as my former employer (I was a vet nurse) once said to me, 'there is no NHS in veterinary medicine.'
in reply to Ruthi
Ruthie - my experience is that they're very well protected by the Regulator. Loads of basic mistakes were made with me but they have no accountability, the Regulator wasn't interested so in other words nothing has changed since Shipman's time. The very people who should have given a stuff didn't.
I would however say that possibly the reason why so many are leaving the profession is that clinical skills are no longer required as they're expected to follow guidelines. In order words they follow a script, not very satisfying when you've spent many years studying. On the positive side though there's QoF points that enables them to treat patients as cash cows.
in reply to Ruthi
Ruthi to kill someone , they would have to take dramatic action,or make a decision for themselves! not likely ; - /
in reply to
Or do nothing martine.
And they get all of it whether we feel well or not, and even if many of us stop attending and go private. Obviously it much easier for them to deal with the broken arms, skin rashes, childhood illnesses and "flu" (aka a bad cold) than to make people with chronic illnesses feel better - why bother when you don't have to?
There are some who are worth it. Honestly! It's just those wonderful folk seem to be few and far between. I have a newfound respect for my doctor since my other half's diagnosis of cancer and how fabulous she was to me during the few short weeks until she died. A good GP most definitely earns the dosh. Just a pity they're not all good.
in reply to Jazzw
Oh Jazz, so sorry to hear that.
... so sorry to read of your loss Jazzw. Glad you had such good support - great to hear.
If you find a good one, and some contributors appear to have done so, then of course they are worth it. Some strive to do well in spite of CCGs restricting their ability to prescribe anything other than T4. Remember that 80-85% of hypos do well on levo alone...or at least, profess to do so.
They work rubbish hours, doubtless consider themselves abused by such as us who 'refuse' to be well despite their prescriptions ( always eventually in the plural as we struggle to regain our health ) and might also be looking over their shoulders seeing the headlines in the ever sensational soar away Sun or that despicable rag the Mail 'news'papers of this or that 'shamed' or 'useless' doctor.
There are many people I have no doubt, who have slunk away with a misdiagnosis of CFS or ME; who remain ill and sometimes unable to work or function in any way which many of us, struggle though we might, see as a life worth living.
So long as non medicos: managers, accountants, statisticians et al have predominance in what is considered prudent and allowable for patients to find wellness, the likes of us are stuffed.
in reply to Rapunzel
Rapunzel - all other jobs have accountability from the street sweeper upwards. GPs have none, they're protected and that's what makes me angry.
Rapunzel in reply to
Ah, you're talking to the converted there, Hidden it's something I might often say to delegates in my former role.
'The industry you're making your career in is the most highly regulated in the UK. Through your malpractice, people might lose money. Through the malpractice of doctors, however, there may be loss of life. Money is clearly more important, as governments of every political colour have allowed doctors to remain subject only to self regulation.'
Makes me angry too 
in reply to Rapunzel
Rapunzel 80-85% percent?? who made that lala up?i know 3 people in my own family that struggle with it...and one friend! i doubt its that high...someone is telling us porkies!
probably the people that are 'doing well' on it have been told they got summat else instead...i told my doc straight.. dont take your eye off the ball just coz you cant actually believe the levo doesnt work,,,,
bantam12 in reply to
5 people in my family do very well on it Martine 😊
in reply to bantam12
bantam12 glad to hear it,really i am , but i truly disagree with the figure... one of my workmates is on it n says she is fine.. apart from her constipation , thin hair and cold hands! say no more
Rapunzel in reply to
bantam12 in reply to
Sounds like you are implying that those of us that say we are well are actually in denial.
The same way that those of us who do not do well on T4 are 'somatising', eh?
Jazzw in reply to
But that's not necessarily because she's on levo - more likely that she's not on enough of it. And therein lies the problem. Back to the "infallibility" of TSH...
Rapunzel in reply to
Hidden I know I have read this somewhere and seen this posted many times on the forum by posters whose sources I respect. Sorry I can't give you a more definitive provenance...my mum had it too - it runs in families
For what it's worth, I happen to think it's lala too. Providing the proof is another matter 
can honestly say in all my 54 years on this earth I haven't had a decent doctor. Two in particular in my current surgery I won't see again because one made 3 major cock-ups with me and the other, whom I thought was more of a friend and cared for me, doesn't, so he got the heave ho!. Have since found out from other patients that these two particular docs made the two bad life threatening decisions with them and in my mind they shouldn't be practicing. The docs I had when I was younger were also crap, they left me on Ativan for 13yrs!!
I don't begrudge doctors their £95,000 annual salaries, surprisingly enough, considering how often I am rude about them.
They have a lot of responsibility, a lot of red tape and admin to deal with, and a very heavy workload. It takes them years to qualify. I imagine lots of doctors would be better at their jobs if they had 20 - 30 minutes per consultation, didn't have to deal with people asking for a prescription for paracetamol, had more free rein to think outside the box, and didn't have patients who asked for a prescription for antibiotics for a cold.
But then I think... If they thought outside the box and killed someone, doctors would all scurry back into the box pretty damn quick, so perhaps we get what we deserve in that respect.
What I would like from doctors is for patients to be given a copy of any letters or notes that are written about appointments or results, when they are written, every time they are written, and whoever they are written by. I want to remove the secrecy from the doctor/patient relationship. I want to get rid of the paternalism, the condescension, the changing of notes to the doctor's advantage, and the lies, and I want to be treated like an adult. If all that happened I would give them a pay rise up to £110,000 a year quite happily.
Yes I agree what you say hon but in my experience they arn't worth it when they make really bad ball's ups like they have done over the years with me
They made lots of massive life-threatening mistakes with me too. But cutting their salaries and keeping them poor just means we will have fewer and fewer people wanting to be doctors, and that won't be to anyone's advantage. 
I think you're right. I suspect the reason salaries are so high because no one would do it if they weren't. And the red tape is ridiculous. Look at how much pressure some are under not to prescribe drugs that they know would work. That's not their fault - it's the layers of bureaucracy above.
But - following on from the exchange we had about crap doctors yesterday healthunlocked.com/thyroidu... - yes, there are only 2 doctors in my practice that I'd ever see. The rest seem to be the most unsympathetic, uncaring, impolite bunch. But perhaps that tells us a lot in itself - they hate their jobs and that must surely be because of the admin layer "above" them. And yet I'm sure nearly all of them studied medicine because they thought it would be a far far different proposition. There's no easy answer - everything comes down to money.
I can relate to this. I was walking round with gallstones and a nearly burst gallbladder for a year before I nearly died of toxicity in my blood and this is not the first time, I was told I had a sprained calf muscle when I was 16 for about 5 months when after I passed out and my calf was the size of a tree trunk I found out that I had DVT and nearly lost my leg! oh and one more......was told I had broken a rib only to be rushed to A&E after 2 weeks suffering with breathing that I had pneumonia.....
My faith in doctors are ............. ZERO!
Jefner they dont even look up from their computers most of the time.. i feel like getting my tits out to see if he would notice...in the old days they actually took time to look at us and inspect us , like our nails, our skin,hair etc..all clues! now if its not on their screen then they either cant be bothered, or think you're making it up!!
Jefner in reply to
actually that's what happens at my surgery
in reply to
LOL @ martine.
Rapunzel in reply to
computer says no
I don't expect doctors to know everything, far from it but I do expect doctors to listen to their patients. Ive had more bad experiences with doctors than good. That said, the few "good" doctors I have come across have at least portrayed to me that they are interested/concerned about my health complaints (even if they aren't). They also seem to embrace scenarios or patients with puzzling symptoms so they can learn about it, and be aware of it for future reference (That's what one of my lovely previous GP's said to me once)There seems to be a proportion of doctors that unless you walk into an appointment with something that's physically "obvious" to them, then they become dismissive. I think some doctors don't realise that they could be dealing with a patient who has a rare illness/disease because they don't deal with it on a daily basis. I appreciate they are under a lot of pressure but this is the job they chose to do. They should appreciate they are going to have patients from all walks of life, with physical issues, mental health issues, rare illnesses etc, and I don't think a lot of them are cut out for being all round good GP's. A simple attitude test would go a long way for some of them.......
Ditto that. If they cant do their job properly that they freely chose to do, they can go and stack shelves in supermarkets
I had to try all the doctors in my sugary before i found a nice one. This nice one goes above and beond and i wouldn't change him for the world. As when everyone else turned me away as they didn't know how to help he helped me out by sending me to see someone more qualified as my issues where to complex for him. He constantly tells me that he wants to help me as i should be out there living my life not sat in his office. Then when the hospital where un helpful i went back and he was very keen too send me to else where which is what i wanted. Im glad the surgary has him but sadly he's a peoples fave so its hard to book with him.
OMG what have I started pmsl
Rapunzel glad to be of service. If you want a good belly laugh, I could post a pic of me naked, so skinny now it isn't a pretty sight
How many of you know doctors outside the consulting room? I know many. And without exception they started out idealistic and caring. But training, the medical mafia and sheer overwork have dulled their senses and beaten them into conformity.
Faced with thyroid patients they feel helpless and overwhelmed. They have no decent drugs. Is it a wonder that they retreat into apparent indifference?
And my friends have all wept over patients, and lost sleep over mistakes. But they have to get up the next day to face the onslaught, and somehow they have to stay sane.
Blame the system. We all need to vent occasionally, and doctor knocking is very cathartic. But they deserve understanding and support. And if you are more respectful, you will get better treatment.
That's it. I won't post again on this subject.
better treatment if more respectful????? I don't think so!
For one I have never disrespected my gp's to their face to warrant any poor treatment I received The reason I received poor treatment was due to being bone idle in not looking at test results properly and incompetence
Not all doctors are like that I know and those who have a good doctor are very lucky BUT in my 54yrs of experience with doctors I have never found a decent one yet
A neighbour and friend was a GP and a very good one but after many years in the job she had had enough and gave up, the stress, the hours, the paperwork and the patients who were not always pleasant to deal with got too much.
'Faced with thyroid patients they feel helpless and overwhelmed.'
My GP 'You are in range'
'They have no decent drugs.'
My GP ( on being asked for more levo ) 'You are in range'
Is it a wonder that they retreat into apparent indifference?
My GP (verbatim) 'Do more exercise and lose some weight'
No, no, no. I might not know him personally but he has done nothing to inspire my respect - which is earned, not automatically given; a gift my grandparents and parents bequeathed.
The Victorian concept know thy place has no resonance in a modern meritocracy. I will curtsey to The Queen and bow to the deceased. That's it.
I know two doctors personally, both very nice but one has an attitude of " I wish patients wouldn't read everything they see on the Internet". This is probably true to some degree, as she probably encounters a lot of patients who dramatise minor things. I for one, am always polite to every doctor/health professional I see, no matter how I'm feeling and no matter how they speak to me. I appreciate they are humans just like the rest of us and are under immense pressure pretty much all the time. I'm aware I only have ten minutes during an appointment, So I don't prattle on unnecessarily I'm very informative, I make myself as clear as I can. I bring notes, documents, print outs, I listen carefully to what they say, I swat up on everything so I can have a better understanding of things. If a nurse at the surgery can't see me to give me a B12 injection because they're understaffed, I don't moan, I don't complain, I go out of my way to arrange to have the injection elsewhere, at another medical practice, I arrange all of this (even though I shouldn't have to) because it's needs must. I am always polite and respectful and im afraid to say it's not always reciprocated, and yet I still would never kick up a fuss because of this. I just feel sometimes that I, like quite a lot of people on this forum feel deflated unsupported because we have invisible or unusually illnesses. We get labelled as being lazy, overweight, we should do more excercise, there's nothing wrong with you..... and God forbid if you tell them your depressed and anxious too
I'm not well and I expect them to search for the source of the problem until they find out, if not I expect avenues to be explored to at least rule things out. This is half of the battle. I want to work with my doctor not be dismissed and treated like someone who is asking for antibiotics to treat a cold
"we're all doomed Mr Mainwaring" pmsl
Yep,Labour did it ,doubled their salary, and did away with weekend and night call outs for them at the same time . Did a similar salary deal for consultants at same time. Knew the chap who led the negotiations ,lovely bloke but useless negotiator.
Just after I was on a holiday with several retired ,very angry,GPs.They missed out on the increase and thereby their pensions.
What i find funny is when you sit down and you tell them your problem and they get their text book out and say hmmmm i dont really know...... Or classic gp ive seen that literally stares at her pc and just shakes her head or nods, i just walked out one day from frustration, it shouldnt be that way!
Interesting..... I'm currently under a Prof of endo and im in the northwest. I bet it's the same person now you've said this 🙈😂 haha.
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