Anyone heard that ndt is bad for hashis?

[hw7342]

I just had my DIO2 gene test result counselling telephone conversation. I am negative for both gene mutations. The woman telling me my results said she works with a very kind endo in Orpington if i was interested in seeing him. When i asked if he just prescribes levo or does he prescribe other things she said he does not prescribe ndt to patients with hashimotos because ndt is natural and the immune system continues to attack it so it doesn't work... Has anyone heard of this before? I thought that it was the actual proteins of the thyroid gland that is attacked by the immune system rather than the hormones? Plus i have seen lots of people on here with hashis say they do really well with ndt....

[puncturedbicycle]

Yes, my doctor said this to me (I have perpetually high antibodies), and when I asked here apparently there are a lot of people w high antibodies who use ndt successfully. I think it's a niche view.

[jimh111]

I have read that NDT being similar to the thyroid gland provokes the autoimmune response. Perhaps it is fine once the thyroid has gone and the autoimmunity has died down.

[greygoose]

It's like everything else in the thyroid world : suits some, doesn't suit others. NDT didn't suit me, but I don't know if it was because of the proteins - of which there are bound to be some in NDT - or what. I just know I'm better off on T3 only.

[radd]

hw,

There are three reasons that I am aware of as to why a Hashi sufferer wouldn't be able to tolerate NDT.

The first is with regard to a patient who hasn't medicated T3 before. The rate of T3 acceptance in their body may be slower that the rate of increased NDT required to keep TSH suppressed. Depending on the immune state and the type of thyroid antibody present, suppression may be required to discourage thyroid activity and a possible Hashi attack.,

The second reason (similar but for differing reasons) is if a patient has hugely elevated thyroid antibodies putting their immune system into a high state of response. The NDT dose required to suppress the Hashi attacks may exceed that of the hormone amount actually required for replacement.,

The third is nutrient deficiencies, especially iron and cortisol hormone. This would be the same for all hypothyroid patients medicating NDT but as most of them are Hashi sufferers, it makes sense to include it..

Many Hashi sufferers take NDT and appear to achieve well being. However, I constantly see members on the forum who start NDT but can not raise quickly enough to suppress the imminent antibody activity and have to switch back to their previous meds.

Elevated thyroid antibodies can make the patient more susceptible to allergies and intolerances. It may be assumed that after so many years our thyroid glands are totally shrivelled up like an old dried up pea - LOL ...(mine is, I saw it on the scanner last year ! ! ...) ... and so not capable of being attacked but it only takes one tiny living thyroid cell to instigate an attack. Also the antibodies will attack the glandular proteins which may be seen as an enemy, similar to the molecular mimicry scenario of gluten.

I was medicating T4 for four years and was a complete mess until adding T3 June 2015. I have spent a year working to improve all nutrients, iron (of which I am usually in excess of ! ! ..) .. and adrenal health. I was planning to investigate NDT in about another 6 months but the withdrawal of my National Health T3 has kinda forced my hand. I could buy T3 but suffer a weird mouth problem and want to get off Levothyroxine anyway to see if it improves.

I think if you wish to try NDT, ensure the fundamentals are in place .. .. absolute optimal nutrients, iron, adequate cortisol levels and low thyroid antibody count...then you stand as good chance as anyone in tolerating it and hopefully gaining lots of benefits.

As an after note - I now read that T2 (included in NDT) is becoming more recognised as having a stimulatory effect on the 5’-deiodinase enzyme activity, encouraging further production of T3, so enabling less meds to be administered and inhibiting TSH.....It also increases metabolism in brown adipose tissue (brown fat where surplus calories are burnt away rather than being deposited in fat stores ... yahoo ! ! ..).

Good luck.

.

stopthethyroidmadness.com/m...

[HarryE]

My TgAb were 100 times above range & I've been on NDT over 2 years. The antibodies were back in range after a year, & I have felt completely well since I began on NDT. Also my previous allergy symptoms, which I had no idea could be linked to thyroid issues, have subsided. I also have much less inflammation going on.

Over 90% of hypo is autoimmune in origin, so it makes no sense to say all Hashi's people can't take NDT.

[radd in reply to HarryE]

Harry,

That is great news.

I have read that the T3 in NDT indirectly calms and strengthens the immune system and so eventually reduces thyroid antibodies. We know that adequate T3 levels reset our thermoregulation (keeping us warm) and it is this newly found energy that makes everything work so much better.

[HarryE in reply to radd]

Of course, as I had TgAb & not TPO, the NHS wouldn't do anything & I've had to self medicate anyway! But that's another story

[radd in reply to HarryE]

Ahh ... TGAb's.

I couldn't remember which was the more favourable to NDT.

I think I have both but will be testing everything next week to ascertain levels before starting NDT.

[HarryE in reply to radd]

I've never heard that the type of antibodies makes a difference.

TgAb testing costs 3 times as much as TPO - that's the explanation I favour for why they are reluctant to take them into account.

[radd in reply to HarryE]

Harry,

TPOAb attacks the enzyme called the Thyroid Peroxidase. TGAb, attacks the protein, the thyroglobulin, which causes the gradual destruction of follicles in the thyroid gland.

Both are immunoglobulin G class, (IgG) and essential in the production of the T4 and T3 thyroid hormones but initiate a slightly differing influence on the immune system. TgAb is also used to monitor progress after surgery for removing the thyroid in thyroid cancer.

I seem to remember reading in either "Why Do I Still Have Thyroid Symptoms? When My Lab Tests Are Normal" or "The Root Cause" that one lot of antibodies may have initially slightly more tolerance of NDT.

I think it to do with number of T cells//regulators (turn on & off the immune response) and B cells (producing the antibodies) and whether we are TH-1 or TH-2 dominant (identifier proteins) and what interleukins are used in the immune response, blah, blah, blah ...

I agree TGAb is not tested probably down to cost but as the majority of patients have TPOAb anyway, I think all this info gets swept under the carpet. I also did a lot of research to find if selenium reduces TGAb as proven in TPOAb but there is virtually none.

Sorry, I thought your referral to having only TGAb and easy acceptance of NDT indicated you had read this info also.

.

TH-1 & TH-2 In Hashimotos

thyroidnation.com/th1-th2-c...

[HarryE in reply to radd]

Thanks. No I hadn't read that. I knew they attacked slightly different things.

[Hidden]

She's a secretary. I wouldn't bother listening.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

Plus she was trying to whip up trade for a man with a closed mind.

[Brubru]

In my personal experience, as said here by greygoose too, depends on the person. I did have a natural doctor telling me NDT doesn't suit hashi sufferers, but I too it for about a year and it was far better than levo. Since february I'm T3 only and have never felt better in my whole life! Thats to say, we are all so unique, and its a hard road to ind the right treatment, but it exists!

[Glynisrose]

What rot, run away!

[Angel_of_the_North]

I have heard that elsewhere, but have no idea if it is true. However, you could have T4 and T3 - does he do that?