How many hashi's have mysterious balance/vertigo problems?

[helbell]

I have just joined medscape to access an article I stumbled on exploring the relationship between Hashimoto's and vestibular dysfunction, during my daily search...usually prompted by a low patch. Don't wanna know when I'm functioning

Anyway, I have vertigo and imbalance for nearly three years. Shortly after going down, or along or around with it, muscle pain etc soon followed with all the usual nasties. I was diagnosed with weak balnce organ...no known etiology, then fibromyalgia...nice n neat and hypothyroidism this year. The upshot and journey to Primary Hypothyroidism has been a study of individual symptoms - some believed and some not- and guess what I found today! Thanks doc for not wanting to join up the dots and look at autoimmunity! I will forward this article to my surgery....

Source: medscape.com/viewarticle/83...

Extract below.

'Introduction:

Autoimmune thyroid disease (AITD) may occur in association with other autoimmune diseases, as part of well-defined autoimmune polyglandular syndromes.[1] This link is believed to reflect the presence of common genetic alterations. AITD may be also occasionally associated with either organ-specific or nonorgan-specific autoimmune diseases as a corollary of systemic immune system dysregulation.[2]

In the last years, coexisting AITD has been described in a percentage of patients with vestibular disorders, as Ménière's disease (MD)[3–5] or benign paroxysmal positional vertigo (BPPV).[6–8] In the former disease, an autoimmune origin has been postulated,[9–11] and we recently showed a relationship between MD and thyroid autoimmunity regardless of thyroid function.[4] Similarly, a higher prevalence of BBPV in euthyroid AITD patients than in healthy controls has been reported. These findings suggest an actual relationship between vestibular disorders and thyroid autoimmunity independently from thyroid function.[4–8]

To shed more light on the relationship between vestibular lesions and Hashimoto's thyroiditis (HT) regardless of thyroid function, we examined vestibular function in euthyroid HT patients as compared to either age-matched patients with benign multinodular goitre (MNG) or healthy subjects without any thyroid disorder.'

[jellynpain]

Morning,

I have tried to do self studying on medical stuff relevant to my symptoms etc..

Problem is I don't honestly believe some Dr's are, then they won't listen to patients who have. This creates poor patient to Dr relationships and too often 'closed doors' due to refusing to listen.

Off course not all are like this but there are enough!

Often felt like shoving a banner up over hospital entrance doors saying " Dr's!!!!! thought for today (& ever day after).... please, please, keep studying & listen to your patients".

Course couldn't put it up as they cart me off lol.

At least I still have a little sense of humour!!

X

[helbell in reply to jellynpain]

I have just trodden on that hallowed ground and sent a polite email letter to my docs....watch this space...

[Loobs39]

Yep - very dizzy for nearly the whole day week before last (so bad I was seasick) but normally just when I turn over in bed or sometimes when I bend down. I have felt slightly off-kilter this morning as though I am just on the edge of being dizzy - peculiar.

[helbell in reply to Loobs39]

I know wev'e chatted before Loobs...are you Hash? Or primary hypothyroid? The latter is most likely to be the former.

[Loobs39 in reply to helbell]

Definitely Hashi - started off last year with TPO of 700+. After being gluten free for nearly 8 months my TPO is now around 30!! I have to say that at the moment I am feeling really well (although I could worry about jinxing things by writing that - lucky I'm not superstitious) and after a frantic weekend (I had to drive 600 miles in 3 days plus arrange and attend a party for my dads 90th) I still feel fine except just slightly dizzy - and I do mean slightly, it is barely noticeable and yet.... However, I am starting to wonder if this could be linked to sugar as I had loads over the weekend for various reasons and yet normally have very little - maybe that is what is causing this?? The problem is (and this has been said before) it is too easy to blame the hashi/thyroid stuff when something feels wrong and yet it could be something else totally.

No more sugar for me and hopefully I will feel steadier.

[helbell in reply to Loobs39]

My doc didn't even check for TPO's I have a self test, and I will ask my GP if he will do one. I'm sure about accuracy of blood spot tests. Anyway, what ever is causing your balance probs do do the vestibular rehab exercises. They will make you feel vile at first (or maybe not) but the best thing for getting your brain to adjust to changing or different balance signals. I'm quite lazy, and walk up and down the garden in circles but it makes me huuuuugggely dizzy then calms everything down. If you feel headaches, nausea, extreme tiredness muscle aches et all...all knock on effects of the fight between brain and body. It does get much easier to manage

[overnighthearingloss]

Ive not actually been diagnosed with thyroid but have some similarities and have other auto immune issues. I never had vertigo before they all started up

I didnt keep the link but something I was reading the other day suggested that vertigo may occur when the body is overloaded with toxins

Interesting thought which I will bear in mind the next time any dizziness or vertigo hits

Great in a way if its true as it could suggest that there isa particular item that causes it and then maybe a way of controlling it or preventing it.

[helbell in reply to overnighthearingloss]

There are tests that can be performed on vestibular function clearly from the article...whether we get 'em or no is another matter. At the end of the day it's about keeping those antibodies down but it would be so much better if the medics new more about it and investigated much earlier on. I guessing the drug companies who dole out the most treatment don't see an urgent need to spend some of it on more in depth reach and training. Loads of money to be made out of vertigo drugs too.

[Marz]

I am more inclined to lean towards B12 deficiency as being the cause. I have had problems for years which I always blamed on a bad back for the last 50 years. Going up escalators had me unbalanced - as did stepping off the pavement. Many other symptoms too numerous to mention. I now have weekly B12 injections and am doing exercises to improve my Left/Right brain - am noticing a big difference.

You can check out my profile for my health history....it has been quite a journey. Today is good - have taken two yoga classes

b12deficiency.info/signs-an...

The above site will tell you all about B12 and some.....

Low B12 affects all nerves....apologies if you already know all this and have been down this route. Not enough time to read your other posts - sorry

[helbell in reply to Marz]

That's fine..thanks Marz, yes, I have considered B12 but I was diagnosed with a mechanical problem at balance clinic. Not many get that opportunity and often diagnosed as neurotic. Even the balance specialist told me that. I will certainly have my B12 tested again. I believe I will need active b12 test as I was on supplements last test. Anyway, the consideration of autoimmune attack on the vestibular system, which they have now strong evidence to suggest, needs looking at as well as vitamin deficiency.

[helbell in reply to Marz]

Interesting about the link between B12 and low ferritin too, mine was 30 last count...assuming that links with D as well?

Ah...now here's a way to get these tests again...I have sent the letter to my doc who may argue, ignore or just fob me off but I wonder if that will open a door to happily looking at my bloods again..

[Marz in reply to helbell]

Ferritin is LOW - needs to be around 80/90 when Hypo. Ferritin is a protein that binds to iron so it can be stored for when it is needed. Not connected to VitD as far as I know. VitD very important - a steroidal pre-hormone as well as being anti-inflammatory and needed by every single one of the 10 trillion cells in your body - so that is a lot of D. Levels need to be high.

vitamindcouncil.org

Neither B12 test is 100% accurate - just a guideline. The basic serum test is fine as long as you remember that only 20% of B12 in the blood is available to be utilised at a cellular level....so again levels need to be around 900. I noticed your last result was high - but then you were supplementing. You need to be off B12 at least a month before testing.

Dr Datis Kharrazian talked about various symptoms linked to thyroid and gluten was well covered with Ataxia and other similar issues. His home test was to walk along a straight line - heel to toe - and with the eyes closed. I failed miserably

[helbell in reply to Marz]

Thanks again Marz. According to the vitd council my D is low too...40 at last count. I will have the pleasure of trying to persuade my doc to up my ferritin now.

[Marz in reply to helbell]

Yes VERY low ! If you divide the result by 2.5 it will give you the measurement as done outside the UK. The Link below gives you a chart which tells you how much you need to take to reach a good level. My estimation is you need 6000 IU's per day - or even loading doses initially.

grassrootshealth.net

You could up your Ferritin yourself. Remember VitD is fat soluble so needs to be eaten with your main meal or something fatty. VitD tabs are inexpensive and easily bought over the counter....

[helbell]

Here's a bit more...which explains it all at a glance:

US National Library of Medicine National Institutes of Health

INTRODUCTION:

A relationship between vestibular disorders and thyroid autoimmunity independently from thyroid function has been postulated.

AIM:

To shed more light on the actual relationship between vestibular lesions and Hashimoto's thyroiditis (HT) regardless of thyroid function.

METHODS:

Forty-seven patients with HT (89·4% F; aged 48·3 ± 12·7 years), 21 with multinodular goitre (MNG; 57·1% F; 54·1 ± 9·8 years) and 30 healthy volunteers (56·7% F; 50·7 ± 13·9 years) were enrolled. Inclusion criteria were the presence of normal thyroid function tests and no clinical history of vestibular dysfunction. Each subject was submitted to complete vestibular evaluation [Caloric Test, Vestibular evoked myogenic potentials (VEMPs), Head Shaking Test (HST)].

RESULTS:

52·2% of HT patients showed an alteration of VEMPs and 44·7% of caloric test (P < 0·0001 for both). None of the MNG patients showed any vestibular alteration, while one healthy control showed an altered caloric test. A correlation was found between vestibular alterations of HT patients and the degree of serum TPOAb level, not affected by age and serum TSH value. By logistic regression analysis, the absence of thyroid autoimmunity significantly reduced the risk of vestibular alterations: HR 0.19 (95%CI: 0·003-0.25, P = 0·0004) for caloric test; HR 0·07 (95%CI: 0·02-0·425, P < 0·0001) for VEMPs; and HR 0·22 (95%CI: 0·06-0·7, P = 0·01) for HST.

CONCLUSION:

In euthyroid HT patients, a significant relationship between subclinical vestibular damage and the degree of TPOAb titre was documented. This finding suggests that circulating antithyroid autoantibodies may represent a risk factor for developing vestibular dysfunction. An accurate vestibular evaluation of HT patients with or without symptoms is therefore warranted.

© 2014 John Wiley & Sons Ltd.

[overnighthearingloss in reply to helbell]

Worrying really aint it that all of us amateurs can seek out answers but mega buck pharma companies with oodles in research hours and monies have no answers.

Just that thought gives me an itchy head