Nutri adrenal & other vitamins???

[sammi3]

Hi all

I have made the switch to Armour, currently on 3 grains, only just started this week.

I have been having B12 injections and taking vitamin C, Methyl folate, Thyroid support vitamin and a multi vitamin too.

I wanted to take a good quality b12 sublingual too, as Dr want me to have B12 retested in 3 months time, before giving more injections.

I also though about adding in the Nutri adrenal support, do you think this is safe to do so or overload?

Since beginning the 3 grain, yesterday, I do feel a little weird, but then I think I remember feeling like that when I increased last time.

Thoughts oh wise ones

Oh, by the way since switching I feel much better then I did! Yeah! Think I still have a way to go to get to "my" point of balance.

[Clutter]

Sammi, Jarrows Formula sublingual lozenges are good methylcobalamin B12 and are available in 1,000mcg and 5,000mcg or you can buy sprays or patches BUT this will raise your B12 and your GP may decide you don't need further B12 injections. He may be wanting to see whether you are storing or at what rate you are losing B12 since your last B12 jab so it might be wise to delay supplementing.

[gabkad in reply to Clutter]

Clutter, I don't understand the rationale.

If I had low B12, I'd take 5,000 mcg sublingual. I would not be relying on NHS injectible or any other either. Is your rationale more to do with having B12 funded by NHS? If I would need to rely on the government to decide when I could have B12 I would feel like a hostage. It's not expensive and available at healthfood stores in the correct form. So why shouldn't someone just take it? Or is this a political statement with adverse personal consequences? As in the following:

The Indians in Grassy Narrows are eating fish polluted with mercury due to dumping of tons and tons of mercury into the river system from a pulp and paper mill. Increasingly they are suffering from Minimata disease, which is entirely and totally devastating. The chief was interviewed. His position is that his people eat fish from the river as part of their millenium long tradition. And that the government and the pulp and paper mill should clean it all up. ( I have not idea about this if it is even possible). So until then, his people will continue to eat mercury contaminated fish and get sick. Well whoopie shit. He's got his people getting sick and sicker because the mercury is not being cleaned out of the river system. Who even bloody knows HOW to clean this crap up. It's probably not even possible. So more people get sick even though they know they'll get sick.

Is this one of those self destructive 'need to make a point and get change happening' situations. But really? B12? Gimme a break. A person won't get this stuff unless some government flunky says 'okay we'll pay'...................scuse me but screw that. A person needs to have a sense of survival. When information is presented which can guide a person to improve their health status considerably, just damn do it.

[shaws in reply to gabkad]

Gabkad

I believe Clutter is pointing out the possiblity of a diagnosis of Pernicious Anaemia and it looks as if the GP is considering this. It's most important that the patient knows the distinction between 'low' B12 and PA and whether treatment is 'to get levels up' or lifelong injections.

[sammi3 in reply to shaws]

So would you say to wait on the B12 sublinguals, until my next blood test?

I have had 2 injections of b12 in the last month and GP wishes to retest in 3 months time?

[Clutter in reply to gabkad]

Gabkad, Shaws has answered for me There is also some doubt whether sublingual B12 can repair neuropathy in the same way hydroxocobalamin injections can which is why I advised Sammi to hold off until after the next test. If injections are to be lifelong there's no reason not to supplement sublingually in addition as the injection wears off but for now it's better not to give the doctor a reason to discontinue 3 monthly injections.

b12deficiency.info/what-to-...

[sammi3 in reply to Clutter]

Thank you!

[gabkad in reply to Clutter]

Clutter, I didn't notice that Sammi has reported neurological problems but I didn't read all the posts.

Sometime in the past year, I had read that even with PA, huge oral doses are effective. If you check the actual microgram content of the injections, they are not all that high. It's just that it is a certainty it is inside the person's body. As opposed to wondering how much of a, let's say 500 microgram sublingual dose is absorbed. But for whatever reason, the latest 'pronouncement' has it that 10,000 microgram doses taken orally will be effective even in PA. Frankly, I was somewhat surprised about this because I was under the impression that the gut will not absorb any B12 at all.

I'll do a literature search later. Right now I'm on 'cat duty' while my daughter is camping.

[Clutter in reply to gabkad]

Gabkad, I've not read that Sammi has PA or neurological issues. I'm simply advising caution in case further investigation for low B12 is pending and don't want Sammi to have injections stopped because B12 is high due to supplementing as happens to many.

[sammi3 in reply to gabkad]

Yes, I did have neurological issues, with loss of sight (sudden) in my left eye and more recently I have suffered with awful pain in the calf area, (like the feel when you are you just about to get cramp) but there all the time - some days it was hard to walk.

However, since the second injection it has almost disappeared and somedays I am not even aware of it - whereas previously, I was having to pop pain killers to even walk/stand.

Would like to see the results of your literature search.

[gabkad in reply to sammi3]

Sammi, I checked some PubMed articles about this because I remember having read something in the past.

There are several studies done on groups of people some of whom do have PA. Large doses of B12 were given orally and sufficient was absorbed to raise blood levels. None of the studies had as their target of over 500 pmol/l which surprised me since this is considered optimal.

The video about B12 shows that some people are getting weekly B12 shots in perpetuity. But severe neurological damage will never recover fully. People get better but not perfect.

I'm assuming your situation never got to that point.

[sammi3 in reply to gabkad]

Interesting.

Thankfully no, my eye sight loss was on its way to recovery after a few hours and back to normal within 24 hours.

The leg/calf pain seems to have subsided hugely, but was in agony for the months before my b12 injections.

Will be interesting to see if the calf pain return - perhaps as my levels reduce??

Thank you for your information.

[sammi3 in reply to Clutter]

That makes sense, totally.

However historically I have always had a low B12 reading and GP advised tablets initially, which to be honest did not do that much to improve my symptoms. Plus, I probably wasn't taking a high enough doseage.

I have had 2 x b12 injections in the last month and as now on NDT, did not want my levels to fall, if they are indeed increased enough with the two injections?

My HB is great 14.2 but my ferritin is/was low at 24 and B12 was 200.

[shaws in reply to sammi3]

Theoretically we should not need to take supplements as ideally they should come from food. If vegeterian, of course, B12 may be low as meat isn't eaten and they have to supplement. If you have always had low B12 I think your GP should l probably test the 'intrinsic factor' which confirms PA. An explanation is below.

Your B12 at 200 is very low indeed and low B12 can also cause problems. I think you should wait until your next blood test and get the print-out of results.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intri...

[sammi3 in reply to shaws]

Nope, not vegetarian and never have been.

Eat a very varied healthy diet.

Thanks Shaw for your help - I will hold off on the B12 for now.

[shaws]

Dr Peatfield recommends we support our Adrenals but Dr Skinner said that when on optimum medication our adrenals recover. I bought Nutri adrenals but had to stop as the combination was a little too much for me but some feel better.

As you are also on NDT your thyroid gland is getting all of the ingredients it needs.

It is a personal decision. I note you say you are now on 3 grains NDT and began this week. I am not sure whether you increased to 3 grains this week or began 3 grains. I just wanted to clarify and in case you haven't seen this lnk, here it is.

stopthethyroidmadness.com/m...

[sammi3 in reply to shaws]

Hmmmmm? Perhaps I will try them for a while and see how I feel?

No, I have this week increased to 3 grains. I have bought the book stop the thyroid madness and think it is an excellent resource to have.

Have read it through once, but feel I can use it as a reference as and when needed too.

Thank you Shaws.

[shaws in reply to sammi3]

I am sure NDt will do the trick for you.

[gabkad in reply to shaws]

shaws, my cortisol has tested borderline since 2000. So I read up on what to do to improve adrenal function. Eat breakfast ASAP after waking up.......well that conflicts with the T4 ingestion. But anyway, I did all the recommendations, have protein for breakfast blah blah, don't go for long periods of time without food, don't eat sweet garbage (don't anyway),........A year in, cortisol went from 215 to 230 to 251 (low end of range is 170, high is over over 700) 'Not stellar' says the endo.

So dummy reduces my T4 and adds minimal T3. I keep doing the adrenal diet: cortisol after 6 month on new thyroid meds? 202.

Well, to my way of seeing things, I think if the thyroid replacement dose would be correct, then maybe the adrenals have a hope. If thyroid replacement dose is too high then it will also help to fry the adrenals as opposed to just starving them to death.

Either that or I'm entirely scrooged for life. I am now self medicating so it'll be interesting how the hormonal profile won't fit her latest prescription. Maybe she'll turn all red in the face and throw a hissy fit. (Where's that little devil emoticon?)

It would be nice if the cortisol would go up to 350- 400.

Meantime endo says 'cortisol test is useless'...........patient wonders 'then why test at all?' Said the same thing about fT3... not accurate.......hm interesting how it never moved a single bit all year. "Very consistently inaccurate then? " No response.

Whenever she gets a result she doesn't particularly like she decides the test is useless. She's one of those doctors who is always right. I will defeat her. It is my ambition in life. I'm going to tick the B12 box on the lab form this time. She's never tested that. I'm pretty sure it's fine but just for the sake of curiosity.... I've added HgbA1c and vitamin D in the past. She's now ordered prolactin (because I told her that back in my early 20s this was high.........oh gawd. It's not been anywhere at all since I've been on T4 but anyway, this lady is late to the party. And FSH, LH.........the train left the station years ago.

There's a book called the Checklist Manifesto. Download is FREE! ebookee.org/The-Checklist-M...

by Dr. Atul Gawande. If these doctors would just have a comprehensive standard screening test list instead of picking and choosing at random, it would make a lot more sense. That would be logical and cheaper in the long run.