Feel that CT3M could be a contra-indication and stress adrenals even more - your experience!

Hi all,

If any of you have experience with CT3M to fix adrenals - I understand the theory and have read Pauls book, however, how is it possible to take T3 with weak adrenals as the T3 will stress the adrenal even more and can cause bad symptoms like trembling and rapid heart beat.

I have had to reduce my T3 doses to quarter of a tablet as I get the problems of the T3 causing bad symptoms with tremors and increased heart with the impact the t3 has on adrenals.

I would love to do the CT3M method but concerned about this problem - and I have huge sleep problems so would have more problems with that as well.

Thanks for any feedback,

Giagal

23 Replies

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  • Have you had tests done proving that you have low cortisol? I could be wrong, but I think the CT3M method of dosing is for people with weak adrenals and low cortisol. If you have high cortisol then it may not suit you.

    I must stress I'm not sure of my facts here, so I hope someone more knowledgeable about CT3M will turn up and help.

  • I was on T3 only for 10 months last year and followed Paul's book but did not do CT3M as my morning cortisol was very high on a Genova saliva test. In any event, the thought of waking myself with an alarm clock horrified me, as I was also a poor sleeper.

    I suffered those problems you mention at first but then found I was low in iron. I took a supplement and slowly improved. Have you had a full iron panel? Ferritin needs to be optimum and also other Vitamins etc like B12 Vit D and folate.

    By the way, I soon began to take a T3 divided dose at bedtime and this was amazing at getting me to sleep better. Am now on the T3/4 combo and also some Armour but I still take a tiny 5mcg dose of T3 at bedtime. If you have not had one, I suggest you get the Genova saliva test done to see what your cortisol is doing and then post again here with results.

  • Hi Hennerton, I'm really interested in your dosing. Would you mind telling me how you arrange your doses, how much you take and what brands of T4 and Armour you take please?

  • Will send you a private message. It will probably be a bit dull for everyone else, as it is all so individual!

  • I don't do it myself but have read the book. I think the idea is that the early morning dose is at a time of maximum adrenal function so your brain is able to use the t3. And you start with a very small amount and build up as your body is able to cope with more, as adrenals recover.

  • I think if your cortisol is low, you may have to take some HC at the same time as treating your thyroid. I have a feeling this is what my doctor may suggest to me when I go back next week, as my cortisol was low in the morning.

  • I am on T3 only and tried Paul's CT3M method. I found if I took the early dose my blood pressure went high and I felt dizzy. I still don't understand the relationship of BP and heart rate. So I've gone back to split doses at 6am 12noon and 5pm.

  • I used Paul's method when I had low morning cortisol. It worked really well and within a few days.

    Because my morning cortisol was so low I was like a zombie and fell right back asleep after my CT3M dose.

    I used NDT for this.

    At the moment I have high morning cortisol (after illness and other stress) and sleeping problems, so the thought of setting my alarm early does horrify me.

    It only works with low cortisol though so no need.

  • Hi Kiltis, I too have very low morning cortisol, until late afternoon according to Genova test. I don't sleep as my cortisol is higher at night. I take 50mcg at 3am when I can get to bed, I wonder if this would count as the early morning dose :-)

    I'm certainly not feeling improvement, I then take T3 and Armour 9am, then 4 pm T3. My iron is a battle, I've been supplementing for years but it's still at the bottom of the range. I'm injecting twice a week B12 too. I know I have absorption issues.

    I still wake feeling nauseous, drunk, exhausted.

    Did you retest your cortisol then after T3?

    My total last May was 15.3, and if anything I feel worse. I'm retesting out of interest next month.

  • Hello Helcaster, yes I did retest and my morning cortisol was 80!! (range 12-22).

    I don't know exactly what caused it. Perhaps a combination of everything.

    Having read Paul Robinsons book I realise my dosing of T3 wasn't ideal and I upped doses too quickly.

    The infection & antibiotics with candida infestation as result certainly didn't help. My skin is still yellow & itchy from taking antifungals. Clearly too many toxins were released and my liver is really struggling, despite supporting with dandelion tea, milk thistle and molybdenum.

    Have you had your RT3 tested?

    I'm using PS, zinc and holy basil to lower my cortisol. It really helps.

  • Hi Kiltis, thanks for your reply. I can't believe your morning cortisol result!! Does it make you feel awful? Interesting you saying zinc is good at lowering cortisol. I'm taking zinc for hair loss, now I'm wondering if this is making me feel worse.

    A drug I have to take hangs around in the liver a long time, I don't think this does me any favours, maybe I should introduce milk thistle.

    I've never had my RT3 tested. I was on 200mcg of T4 until last October, when I weaned myself off it. I take armour and T3 now. The next thing I'm going to try is all T3, and seeing if getting rid of the last bit of T4 would help.

    Thanks so much for the info!

  • I know, it's crazy. I felt ill beyond words, really awful. My skin was burning and itching and even my scalp felt sore. My whole body would tense up when the cortisol went up.

    Thank goodness I feel better now.

    Glad I could help with the zinc. If you have your cortisol retested and find it high at any point you could take it about an hour before the high reading.

    Do you feel better being on Armour and T3 than T4?

    A lot of people on the Recover with T3 forum seem to have problems with RT3.

    There is a test for it but it cost about £65. It's expensive being ill :-(

    x

    Kat

  • Hi Kat, I bet you felt rotton! If I ever get any reading above normal then perhaps I could zap it with zinc :-) thanks for that!

    I felt no difference at all on T4, probably worse than before I started. The only positive thing for me with T4 is that it helped my crazy pounding heart, it used to wake me at night and I used to get scared I was having a heart attack. I never saw any point in raising it to 200mcg if it wasn't doing anything. I think I must have had RT3 because I felt so I'll. Looking back now at old blood test results on T4 I had a suppressed TSH very early on, a reasonable FT4 and bottom of the range FT3, can't believe now this was never picked up. I want to get rid of all T4, so stopping Armour and just taking T3 next to see if I get better results (not blood test results) I'm sitting here with a big blanket on, the wood burner and central heating on and I'm shivering!

    I will probably get the test because over 2 years of high level T4 not converting must have really messed me up.

    I am very interested in my cortisol results, but waiting until May. You're right, it's just money money all the time! Xx

  • Can you tell me the brands and amount of the supplements that you take to lower your cortisol please? Thanks. Jx

  • Can you tell me the brands and amounts of supplements you take to lower cortisol please? Jx

  • In the evening I take 50mg zinc from Now (bought from ebay), a tsp Tulsi powder (Holy basil) from Wholefoodsonline.co.uk and 300mg Phosphatidyl Serine from Bulk powders.com.

    In the morning I take 300mg Phosphatidyl Serine again.

    I'm going to try 'Seriphos' next time I get Phosphatidyl Serine.

  • Great, thanks. Jx

  • Hi Kat

    I was v interested in yr info re supplements fr high cortisol. Most bks seem to cover adrenal/fatigue and low cortisol but there seems to be little info re high cortisol in particular reasons for and implications especially in relation to thyroid illness.

    I was wondering where u found yr info. I had several Genova tests in the past which indicated low cortisol and adrenal fatigue but my latest test last year indicated several times of high cortisol. I had conventional adrenal tests via my Endo and she told me any higher I wd have Cushing's. Very confusing. I have just had another saliva test via Dr Myhill and am awaiting results.

    Cx

  • Hiya,

    Yes you are right, there is plenty of info about low cortisol but not so much about high cortisol.

    I've found some in 'Stop the thyroid madness' book and on the 'Recover with T3' forum on Facebook.

    Like you I've had several saliva tests. From high cortisol to low and so back to high.... bah.

    At what time of the day did you have your conventional adrenal test?

    I had mine at midday (when my cortisol is normal according to my saliva test and to how I feel) so the endo says I'm fine.....

    My morning cortisol was 80 (range 12-22) a few weeks ago. .

    x

    Kat

  • Hi Kat

    The short synacthen test which is what I had, has to be done before 9am or as close to 8am as pos. I had it done privately at the Spire hospital. I looked the test up on Google for info before I had it which was helpful. Years ago I did have a cortisol blood test arranged by my GP which again was 1st thing in the morning.

    The CTTM Handbk arrived today - hopefully I will find it useful.

    Best Cx

  • Ah I see. I just had a blood test for cortisol.

    Best to you too.

    x Kat

  • Hi there,

    It was my understanding that cortisol levels(CL) need to be address prior to taking T3. My CLs not good and I cannot use any corticosteriods because I am Type 1 diabetic.

    I am sure that Paul has recommended vitamins and minerals to improve the system prior to taking part in any new T3 related regimen.

    Good Luck

    Regards

    Lin

  • Hi everyone I am now on T3 only have been for approximately 4 months. My dose has just increased to 40 from 30 as I was feeling hypothyroid.

    I usually take my first dose around 9am 20mcg a d then split remainder but still haven't felt great after 12 pm onwards. Over the last few days i decided to try ct3m despite Genova saying my morning cortidol was high.

    I find ta king it at 8am knocks me out untill about 10. 00 deep sleep but I am waking feeling a bit better and doing better throughout the day. My bp and hr are ok

    I just done understand the deep sleep afterwards can anyone help. Obviously I can keep sleeping till that time every day ? ☺

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