severely depressed, feel like I am in a bubble, keep bursting out into tears for no reason
still on 100mg of Thyroxine, going to gym regularly and training hard, which is giving me a bit more self esteem
but things I normally enjoy, I just feel so out of it and suicidal a lot of the time, like I`d be better off not here
throughout the last 5 years, I have been on every anti depressant known to man, SSRI and Tricyllic types, none of which have helped me, apart from cause me to sweat profusely and gain loads of weight
now much healthier physically, gym doing wonders for physique, my diet is good
no junk or processed rubbish, but i still feel awful "mentally"
I take the Thyroxine, and also taking my Vitamin D because I am deficient in that, along with Ginger capsules, Ginkgo Biloba, Korean Ginseng, Multi Vitamin
my GP isn't helping, I don't know what to do now
don't know if its thyroid related or if I need someat for whatever levels are low in my body of god knows what?
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Waynester
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anti -depressants can hurt your thyroid and they are clearly not helping you.. get on internet get 5HTP it's better and works for thyroid patients.. and throw your multi-vitamin
and take Magnesium B (wassen) and Co-enzyme Q10 and 3g of vitamin C a day you could also try L-Tryptophan and L-Tyrosine
BUT FIRST.. do this questionnaire... if you have adrenal issues your T4 (levo won't work)
right... check your messages I'm sending you a private message.. it's going to be OK you've got a high score for adrenal low reserve.. this can be fixed... you won't be needing any more anti-depressants poppet.. you're not depressed... you're very poorly... but you're going to be fine
Mine just put me on Prozac!! It's easier to do that you see!! Until they made me feel suicidal!! I stopped taking them (which isn't recommended but I did!) and back to happy me! I feel low when my levels are low. They increase my Levo and I'm ok for a bit! Though they can't just keep increasing my tabs as I'm already on 225mcg and about to go to 250! Stay positive you'll get there x
if you got the score you just posted... You DO have an adrenal issue Now..... . seriously it can drive you to the depths.. but it is really sortable, I started to feel better immediately
Hi there I've been through similar cycles in my 30 year career as a hypo even tried to kill myself one 20 years ago. DON'T DO IT BUDDY! Others might not approve of this advice but over the years I have just upped the levo (Eutrosig in my case) by tiny 25mcg amounts over a 6 week period then gone to the doc to have levels checked. Went from 100 to 150 and now happily tolerating 200, all with my doctors blessing. Had I not been proactive don't know where I might have ended up (and I went through all the SSRIs forever, nothing else helped until I got the thyroxine right now don't need the other & haven't for a long time).
Hang in there!! Hugs and love vibes coming your way xx
Have you tried armour? some people get on much better with it.. and having T3 in it means you get the instant effect of an increase rather than having to wait for an increase to kick in.. It may be more suitable
Have checked these out, pretty laborious to do so, not impressed with GP's approach to thyroid problems, seems to be treating by the TSH and doesn't know much about that, at least that is the deduction from what I take to be the time of blood collection ? Coll. 13:39 ??? TSH circadian, highest early morning.
It would be nice if you could just quote the results of your most recent thyroid blood test with ranges, preferably with TSH, FT4, FT3.
Meantime, ploughing on, seems your TSH in June 2013 was 1.26. This is not much above the level, even if the progression is not arithmetical, it was 25.10.12, TSH 1.35, when FT4 was 11.2 (10.5-20), FT3 4.3 (3.5-6.5)
Your GP should be aiming at a TSH of 1, preferably less, also checking FT4 and we would hope the FT3 but most labs will not. Looks like you are being undermedicated and making no progress. No wonder you feel grim.
Buy Dr Anthony Toft's book Understanding thyroid disorders, BMA publication, Dr Toft past president of BTA, £5 from amazon/chemists. Page 88 has this:
"Judging the correct dose of thyroxine.
....usually prescribe dose of thyroxine that raises the FT4 and TT4 to the upper part of the normal range and reduces the TSH level in the blood to the lower part of the normal range.
Typical results would be a FT4 of 24 pmol/l or TT4 of 140pmol/l and a TSH of 0.2mU/l. In some patients a sense of well-being is achieved only when FT4 or TT4 is raised, for example 30pmol/l or 170nmol/l and TSh low or undetectable. In this circumstance it is essential that the T3 level in the blood is unequivocally normal in order to avoid hyperthyroidism."
The ranges applicable to his figures are on P87. If you can not make progress on levo alone, good info on Page
46.
Your adrenals will have been affected but Redditch will help you with that problem.
Sorry you are feeling low. I have just looked at one of your above links (the last one) and note your TSH is 1.26. I believe you are undermedicated and Dr Toft in his Pulse article says:-
6 What is the correct dose of thyroxine and is there any rationale for adding in tri-iodothyronine?
The appropriate dose of levothyroxine is that which restores euthyroidism and serum TSH to the lower part of the reference range – 0.2-0.5mU/l.
In this case, free thyroxine is likely to be in the upper part of its reference range or even slightly elevated – 18-22pmol/l. Most patients will feel well in that circumstance.
But some need a higher dose of levothyroxine to suppress serum TSH and then the serum-free T4 concentration will be elevated at around 24-28pmol/l.
This ‘exogenous subclinical hyperthyroidism’ is not dangerous as long as serum T3 is unequivocally normal – that is, serum total around T3 1.7nmol/l (reference range 1.0-2.2nmol/l).
Even while taking the slightly higher dose of levothyroxine a handful of patients continue to complain that a sense of wellbeing has not been restored. A trial of levothyroxine and tri-iodothyronine is not unreasonable. The dose of levothyroxine should be reduced by 50µg daily and tri iodothyronine in a dose of 10µg (half a tablet) daily added.
****
I didn't have a T3 test but the Endo did add some T3 and it made such a difference. So I would say your TSH should be lower and ideally a trial of T3 added to your T4.
Louise at Thyroiduk.org is on holiday till 12th August but you could request the whole Pulse article from her to give to your GP. Not only will he learn how best to treat Thyroid Gland Problems such as hypo but also hyper, etc. Email louise.warvill@thyroiduk.org
I was far more unwell on levothyroxine than before diagnosis (TSH 100) so I am better with an alternative - although the GP's wont prescribe.
Waynester, while you're trying to sort out your thyroid, please make sure you also have support for your depression. Even with excellent care, you can wait a long time for thyroid-related stuff to improve and even when you're only feeling a little under the weather it can take a lot out of you, especially when you are going it on your own without a clever or supportive gp. If you are suicidal that really needs to be prioritised. Even if you don't want drugs, I feel like you need mental health-specific support throughout this ordeal.
May I ask if your mental health care was supervised by a consultant psychiatrist or was it just your gp giving you antidepressants? Gps can be absolutely useless with them and just bombard you with random drugs with no idea of how they should be dispensed.
I'm not suggesting that you should go back on a script, but we all know here how long it can take to feel better on thyroid treatment, and there must be a very clear top priority of keeping you here and unharmed which should take precedence over long-term thyroid treatment.
I suffered with moderate to severe depression for many (20+) years. Part of that time it was managed with antidepressants prescribed by a consultant psych and I had therapy throughout. My thyroid was monitored as well. My treatment was methodical, and I generally felt I was in good hands, which made all the difference. After all those years of treatment (drugs, supplements, therapy, etc) my depression just seemed to resolve and lift, and this was before I had an uat, so the low feelings of the uat never brought me as low as the depression did. You can feel better and have a better life. It happens all the time.
Having working brake pads on your car is a hugely important thing, crucial for safety, but if the car is on fire you need to attend to that first.
I really feel for you. This is a difficult time. You're in my thoughts.
PS. Sorry - maybe you've been through this all before - but do you know about a loading dose to resolve your low vitd? If you are very deficient (I don't know if you are) 'normal' supplements/doses might not be enough. I had to take a huge amount to get my levels back on track and it can take months.
Arrgh, all the good vitd links have gone somehow. Here is the best one I could find.
Nobody gives a crap, GP won't help, and yes I've tried 4 different kinds, put me on thyroxine, but as of last night I'm going to self medicate and go from 100mg to 200mg for 1 night, then the following night do 100mg, then 200mg, so it evens out I'm getting 150mg
I cannot afford tests from a private company, can't afford an Endo,
I've already been to see NHS Endo at The Churchill in Oxfordshire, one that is the same as my GP, she didnt give a crap either, telling me everything is normal!!
Waynester, That is a big increase all at once. Can you split the 100 and do 100-150-100-150 for a time? Even that would prove quite problematic for me. I have been in a very similar situation in that my adrenals were totally exhausted, and T4 increases more than 1/2 of a 25 mcg always gave me palpitations. I can see you have a big problem with the financial brick wall, but there will be a crunch anyway at some point because you are going to run out of Thyroxine. Is the GP totally adamant in refusing to increase to 125 a day? I have not looked at your test results - so sorry - I will do that right now.
Edited by Admin: link to Dr N.K removed as identifying her contravenes guidelines: 20. Do not name and shame identifiable individuals. Full posting guidelines found here healthunlocked.com/!/#thyro...
I need to exercise as I don't like laying round the house all day, I need to see a recommended Endo who can look at my results and say, right I'm going to help you!
I'm not taking medication advice from anyone on here, unless they are medically qualified, so that means not popping pills I don't know about
Very sensible. Do you have a list of doctors? If not Louise would be able to send you a list. She's on holiday for the next week though. I don't know if someone else might be able to help. Let us know if you do want/need the list in the next week.
Good for you, Waynester. Very sensible attitude. Just a little point - the exercise could well use up all your T3 that your body has produced, I wonder if it would be a good idea next time you have your blood test with the GP to get up really early (Rather you than me) and do an exercise stint and go straight to the blood test? Be interesting to see what might come up. I did notice by the way on your results that the T4 and T3 were far from optimal on the 25/10/12. That would certainly be better if it were a bit higher. I reckon 125 per day would be a good start.
Have you got the Dr Toft book, 'Understanding Thyroid Disorders'? It is available on Amazon in softcover for lass than £5 and in electronic form for even less. In the section dealing with 'Judging the correct Dose Of Thyroxine' it says that typical results would be FT4 of 24pmol and a TSH of 0.2 mU/l. He even says that some people will not feel well until the T4 is even higher - say, 30 and TSH low or even undetectable. In that case, T3 would have to be unequivocally normal. You definitely have room for improvement on that basis. It is what I used to convince my GP that I needed more than 100mcg Levothyroxine.
I do hope that this might help you to use your powers of persuasion to sway your GP in your favour. You might even photocopy that page and ask him/her to file it with your records.
Waynester - I am sorry to read this thread and really wish that you'll soon get the help you desperately need.
Totally understand what you're saying re exercise but, as an experiment, why not drop a gym session per week for a little while and keep a diary of your temperature, pulse etc? Has to be worth a try.
Funnily enough, I find that when I don't exercise, my sleep is much improved. What works for me is not over-exerting and avoiding a high heart rate.
Hi Waynester, just wondered if you were ever tested for coeliac disease or gluten intolerance? Consuming gluten if you are sensitive to it causes all manor of issues, not necessarily noticeable gut ones, such as damaging thyroid (especially if you have autoimmune hypothyroidism) and depression. I've had Hashimoto's for over 15 years and a few years back I learnt about the link with gluten (though didn't want to believe it!). I cut down on wheat, moving mostly to rye bread and my antibodies dropped from 60,000 plus to 560 (normal 0-60). A couple of months ago at a gluten free support group meeting I learned more about how gluten attacks thyroid. I was shocked enough to give up all gluten (not that hard after all!). My mood has improved greatly and I'm beginning to feel overmedicated (45mcg T3 daily). I'll now go for another blood test and expect to find that my antibodies are lower still and that I need to reduce medication. Really good book on the subject "Dangerous Grains" by James Braly MD and Ron Hoggan MA. Hope this helps! Hang in there!
Hi Waynester, I can see from your posts and your photo that you are very angry and frustrated, and I understand that totally. I've seen that same anger and frustration in my own family for over 20 years, but we've also learned that it is completely counter-productive.
If GP's and endos will not listen there is no point in banging on with them. We have had to become proactive and maybe you will have to do the same.
Both my husband and daughter LOVED sport, my daughter being a county level runner who won athletics events and triathlons. Both continued to force themselves to exercise long after they became ill because it gave them a temporary lift.
However, what we didn't know at the time, but we do know now, was that this exercise was doing them more harm than good. It was thrashing an already struggling body.
It still infuriates my daughter immensely and sometimes she still does break out and have a 20 minute run. However, she suffers later because of it.
You say you are going to a gym but cannot afford private tests or private doctor. Can I suggest that the money you spend at the gym might be better spent on a private doctor - Lou can send you a list as suggested. I understand all about the financial difficulties involved in going private, but it really is worthwhile - been there, done that.
We have at last found help this way after many long years of railing against the local GP and endos. and hopefully you can too.
I'm listening to what your all saying but no, I don't want to give the gym up, I play onstage in a band in the public eye and I like being in shape, not going to the gym us not an option, being fat in the face and blobby is a no no
Can you all tell me what I need to have measured when I ask for my next blood test in 2 weeks
I'm going to ask for everything I can get (test wise) and try and be referred to a sympathetic Endo on the NHS, there has to be one surely?
I'll also raise my Thyroxine to 150 on alternate days before I get my blood test
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Feeling terrible - but my lab results look ok, so what is going on?
Overwhelmed!!
Please help - Hair Falling out, Fatigue &bso unhappy!! Been told to take Thyroxine but I am so worried, Can i take natural vitamins instead
