Quite a few years ago I had my Gallbladder removed, a few years later IBS diagnosed after colonoscopy and endoscopy negative results thankfully, the last 6 months maybe longer have been horrible with flare ups IBS-D then the other way, bloating cramps the usual suspects, I had a really bad weekend last week so good old google I researched gallbladder and IBS and something I had never heard of came up SIBO (google it) goes hand in hand with IBS and gallbladder removal, I read info about this got excited because it can be treated but not permanently with antibiotics! Result….no!!! NHS do not test or treat they don’t recognise it WHAT!!!! I could pay private for test get positive result but the NHS would not treat with antibiotics
Question 1) has anyone else heard or dealt with SIBO?
Question 2) has any one on here had their gallbladder removed and had problems after gallbladder removal and IBS?
Thanks in advance x
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Jaluga
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Hi Jaluga, I am a bit skeptical about SIBO myself but that aside, you might like to take a look at BAM (Bile Acid Malabsortion) or BAD (Bile Acid Diarrhoea). See link below:
I was diagnosed with BAM privately and given medication to treat which the nhs do prescribe as you need it for life. I have also just done an SIBO hydrogen and methane breathe test yesterday privately but if positive the nhs will treat it but it needs to come from a private gastro done in a hospital setting not an at home test no doctor would prescribe antibiotics based on an at home test but they will prescribe what a private gastro recommends.
I had my gallbladder removed and also have SOD and endometriosis so it is never just one problem but having gallbladder removed was my biggest mistake and that was 2010!! Good luck
Thanks for info that’s really interesting was looking in to going private after Christmas possibly, had a telephone consultation Monday with one of my surgery GP’s she was adamant about SIBO
Like you I had endometriosis many many years ago ended up with hysterectomy then gallbladder problems now this, got blood tests and stool sample tests after Christmas will see what comes back from them then make a decision Thanks again have a good Christmas x
I’m 36 but had my gallbladder out in 2010 I actually had gallstones at 18 which was and still is unexplained as I’m very low weight and do not fit into gallbladder categories but they decided to take it out when the pain got too bad but my issues after were so much worse. Nhs ignored my endo issues since 2016 but went private 2021 and have had 3 surgeries to remove endo including on my bowel and had a total hysterectomy everything removed april this year but my bowel issues are really bad. I have health insurance so that’s why I went private and have never looked back I’ve had terrible treatment on the nhs to the point the gave me drugs I told them I was allergic to and left me in isolation where I was fitting and collapsed on the floor resulting in me breaking all my ribs on both sides due to osteoporosis…….never would o go back on the nhs. I wish you good luck and hope you get the help you need I don’t know where you are in the country but I would highly recommend going to London as I’m not based there and is a nightmare travelling but they are sooooo much better the gastros and will listen to what you say and actually try to help not fob you off xx
Omg that's horrendous nhs treatment. My life was saved by the nhs but realistically had they been listening in the first place instead of dismissing and being incredily vile and ignorant they wouldn't have had to speed me over to icu (better breed of humans treating humans in icu in my experience) and them having to spend thousands trying to save my life due to their deplorable vile ignorance outside of icu.Whilst they certainly shouldn't have given you drugs you told them you are allergic to, were you then after you telling them that, then unaware for a very feasible multitude of reasons that they were giving you the drug/drugs you had told them you were allergic to? Or did you know and take them anyway for a multitude of very feasible reasons?
Absolutely shockingly disgusting and life threatening to you the nhs leaving you fitting and collapsed on the floor and breaking all your ribs on both sides due to osteoporosis but which I'm assuming broke Duty being collapsed on the floor fitting and the floor not being the place for someone to be fitting collapsed on who has osteoporosis or anybody to be fitting collapsed on for that matter in the care of medical so called professionals. I am assuming because you don't mention that the floor you were collapsed on was the floor of an NHS hospital or establishment of some sort and not you actually being collapsed on the floor of your home or elsewhere or outside somewhere supposed to being treated by NHS paramedics who just left you on the floor because you had been fitting and were possibly in a recovery position not actually left but being watched from a distance for unknown reasons before being placed into a ambulance and taken to hospital? If you were on the floor of an NHS hospital collapsed on it and fitting having broken all your ribs on both sides and they ignored you left you there on the floor I really hope you've sued them for negligence! You could have died. A close family member has seizures from time to time, it terrifies me what potentially could happen to them through profound nhs ignorance and negligence of lack of constant monitoring.
You say you collapsed to the floor due to fitting we are bad rails if you were an inpatient in hospital not up?
My gastric issues have been awful since I had my gall bladder removed nearly five years ago. I have had chronic diarrhoea for three years following removal and for the last two years chronic constipation. Having my gall bladder has ruined my gastric functioning. Even worse the pain for which I had my gall bladder removed proved not to be the cause of my pain anyway which was another unrelated cause altogether - trapped epigastric nerve.
I mentioned SIBO to my gastroenterologist he dismissed it out of turn without testing. Sorry you are going through this.
Thank you for information the more I read about gallbladder removal the more convinced I am it has something to do with how I am now. Thanks again have a good Christmas x
It was Prof Aziz who I paid to see privstely after my gastric issues didnt get better after my gall bladder removal, it was him who diagnosed my epigastric nerve entrapment ACNES. He put me on a different diet which helped with my diarrhoea. I only saw him once but his advice re the nerve entrapment was taken forward by NHS back home by a fabulous pain consultant. It never returned. I hold Prof Aziz in high esteem.
To those thinking about having gallbladder removed . Really think twice. You need your gallbladder . Ever since I’ve had my removed it’s made my whole gut a mess. It didn’t help my right side pain and I have had trouble ever since my surgery please look up Dr berg on utube and he explains all sorts of problems but he explains the gallbladder and many other problems. He’s really awesome and can maybe help you or someone reading this. He’s in the USA. Really knowledgeable and explains in detail
hello Jaluga. After gall bladder removal I had what I thought was very bad IBS-D for nearly 9 months before I was referred to gastroenterologist. He diagnosed Bile Acid Malabsorption - it can happen after gall bladder op. I now have daily medication for that prescribed by my GP. The tablets work - though they took a bit of getting used to. Best wishes.
I haven't had my gallbladder removed but following serious bloating (I looked 7 months pregnant) I bought an at home breath test from ibsandsiboclinic. I tested postitve for a methane overgrowth.
I haven't bothered asking for help through the NHS. The clinician treating me at the sibo clinic has suggested various things I can try. She does appointments via zoom and on the phone, and face to face if you can travel to London. At the moment she has advised me to take Atrantil and the bloating and cramps are very much improved.
My GP just shrugged and offered no help whatsoever when I mentioned the cramps and bloating to him 2 years ago.
Thank you for reply isn’t it sad that you have to go private to get a result that is helping you I cannot understand why nhs do not recognise SIBO that was not explained to me
Good luck with your treatment have a good Christmas x
I think the NHS doesn't acknowledge a lot of things. If it did, it would increase the budget having to treat people, so (in my experience) they gaslight you instead.
Hi Jaluga. I had my gallbladder removed 18months ago. I was ok at first then started to get pains and chronic diarrhea for 14 days. Had poo and blood tests and all was ok. GP put me on Famotidine for 2 months . 1 taken at night before bed. These put my system back on track and I have been fine (touch wood) since March this year. I find if I eat too many sweets puddings and processed food I get diarrhea for 1 day only. Other wise I can eat anything in moderation and I am fine. I also have a bowl of porridge every morning. I hope this helps and wish you better
Hi, how did you persuade the NHS to test for SIBO please, and how was it carried out? I have seen Prof Aziz too who asked the NHS to test for it, but so far they are not
Hi , I contacted my local hospital and got the email address for the IBD nursing team. She was very helpful and after a couple of conversations ( telephoned) she organised the SIBO test. It was her suggestion, I hadn’t even mentioned it to her. It was carried out in a main hospital, breath test every 15 mins for about 4 hours.
yeps I had my gallbladder out 30 odd years ago and within 2 months bang! Stomach started with all the usual IBS symptoms. Took GP/tests all negative to diagnose Ibs over a year! still suffer a lot.
Heard of SIBO, and I did once get an antibiotics course from the GP that gave me some short term relief. But I'm a bit skeptical about it.
I also had my gallbladder removed (over 10 years ago), and like others in the thread it feels like the worst thing I ever did. My digestive system has never felt right since.
Hi Jaluga, its so sad to read of your problems and not being able to receive help on NHS. I haven't had my gallbladder removed but have suffered with IBS C for 40 years. For several months I was in a lot of pain, felt nausea and very unwell couldn't eat pains under my left rib and abdomen so went to a Naturopath in Feb 2022 (doc just kept prescribing antacids which made me worse) By now I had already started treating myself for low acidity and discovered after private testing I had SIBO I had never heard of it. My Naturopath was so helpful. I went on an extremely strict diet for 6 weeks (mostly low Fodmap but slightly different in fact worse quite complicated its on Google), then very very slowly eased myself back in to a more normal diet. Brasicca veg, alcohol, fermented foods, all legumes, yogurt and porridge included have been my nemesis. I have just started eating small amounts of sprouts and a few kidney beans can't eat baked beans too scared to try cauli and broccoli. My Naturopath recommended tablets for constipation, everything I have taken has been herbal including herbal antibiotics for SIBO. Since sorting out my constipation I've improved tremendously, I did experience a 'die off' with the SIBO when on the diet which is basically a huge clear out after which you start to feel better. I do hope you sort yourself out a lot is knowing what your body likes and dislikes we are all so different. It makes your life unbearable feeling so unwell . Good Luck there is a light at the end of the tunnel.
Just to add to my reply I don't think just taking anti biotics works with SIBO you do need to stick to a diet for sometime to find out what is aggravating your gut hard as it is it's worth it
Unfortunately there isn't a test that accurately diagnoses SIBO. I was misdiagnosed with SIBO and bought Rifaximin and Neomycin privately (£100s+consultant fees) and this did nothing for me since although I tested positive from a breath test, I didn't have it in the first place. I would certainly go with Maureen1958 's recommendation regarding looking into BAM. My gastro said that true SIBO cases are rare and not as prevalent as websites or non medically trained practitioners say it is. It's another money making scheme and the treatments these practitioners take you through are brutal and bad for your health (effectively starving yourself).
Thank you so much for the heads up SIBO is so confusing who tests who doesn’t it’s a mine field the more I read about it the more I feel leave it alone, I have looked at BAM and that sounds more feasible in my situation I’m having bloods and stool tests after Christmas (due to clinics being closed) will go from there but will definitely be asking more questions around gallbladder IBS etc etc
I do hope you get the right diagnosis Jaluga whether it be BAM or SIBO my symptoms definitely were classic text book SIBO and I have no doubt of my diagnosis so I was lucky. It helps having a practitioner you can trust and apart from the test cost for SIBO sent to a London Clinic which I paid I think £130 my consultation fees to my Naturopath came to less than £90 only 2 consultations . I had to pay for the herbal tablets which I ordered on line independently on the advice of my Naturopath. Best to get prices before you start any consultation. Hopefully you will somewhere with the NHS and get it sorted very soon.
Hi yes i’ve had a SIBO test cost me £160 private results i did not have it. I’ve also had my gallbladder out and i have IBS. NHS don’t cover this cost.
Hi I can't answer either of your questions however I don't think antibiotics would be the answer.Somebody put something on here relating to gut health and a video which could be viewed. I saw the video and decided to get the books written by Dr. Nstasha Campbell-McBride.
It might be worth your while looking at the GAP diet
I was assessed for SIBO with hydrogen breath testing at the Royal Brompton Hospital under the NHS at their allergy clinic (referred by my NHS GP). Over 3 weeks I had 3 breath tests: glucose, lactose and sucrose. My methane was found very high. I think this is now called IMO. I had a 2 week course of antibiotics (co-amoxiclav), prescribed by the NHS gastroenterologist from the Chelsea and Westminster Hospital at their joint clinic, which was effective, and happily it also cured my rosacea, which I haven’t been troubled with since. My criticism would be that they don’t look into why you got the problem in the first place so it’s likely to re-occur, and they don’t do follow ups - they just recommended my GP prescribe more antibiotics if I have a re-occurrence. My advice is to research into which NHS Hospitals assess for SIBO. It might mean you have to travel to a specialist clinic.
Agree that physicians could do more examinations to find the root cause but sometimes it just can't be found with the current Western medical scientific knowledge in mind.
Maybe there isn't just one cause but is it a combination of several issues like genes, early life antibiotics, no breastfeeding, a mother with a disturbed microbiome, etc.
Because the disbalance of the gut microbiome probably will recur after an antibiotic is no longer used, chronic cyclic use of an antibiotic is at the moment a possible treatment (on emperical basis?) mentioned by the AGA, American Gastroenterological Association, keeping in mind the possible long term risks / adverse effects.
I hope my dysfunctional gut symptoms can be treated with amoxicillin clavulanic acid, on a chronic cyclic basis. Probably a (low dosage?) course of antibiotics once every ....weeks/months to keep my gut microbiome in a somewhat better balance with as result/outcome less debilitating / disabling symptoms and a better quality of life.
Source: AGA Clinical Practice Update on Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth: Expert Review gastrojournal.org/article/S...
Description
Thanks to ready access to hydrogen breath testing, small intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO) is now commonly diagnosed among individuals presenting with a variety of gastrointestinal and even nongastrointestinal symptoms and is increasingly implicated in lay press and media in the causation of a diverse array of disorders. Its definition, however, remains controversial and true prevalence, accordingly, undefined. The purpose of this review, therefore, was to provide a historical background to the concept of SIBO, critically review current concepts of SIBO (including symptomatology, pathophysiology, clinical consequences, diagnosis and treatment), define unanswered questions and provide a road map toward their resolution.
Methods
Best Practice Advice statements were developed following discussion by the 3 authors. Two authors each developed text around certain Best Practice Advice based on a review of available literature. All 3 authors reviewed the complete draft and after discussion, redrafting, and further review and revision, all of the authors agreed on a final draft.
Best Practice Advice 1
The definition of SIBO as a clinical entity lacks precision and consistency; it is a term generally applied to a clinical disorder where symptoms, clinical signs, and/or laboratory abnormalities are attributed to changes in the numbers of bacteria or in the composition of the bacterial population in the small intestine.
Best Practice Advice 2
Symptoms traditionally linked to SIBO include bloating, diarrhea, and abdominal pain/discomfort. Steatorrhea may be seen in more severe cases.
Best Practice Advice 3
There is insufficient evidence to support the use of inflammatory markers, such as fecal calprotectin to detect SIBO.
Best Practice Advice 4
Laboratory findings can include elevated folate and, less commonly, vitamin B-12 deficiency, or other nutritional deficiencies.
Best Practice Advice 5
A major impediment to our ability to accurately define SIBO is our limited understanding of normal small intestinal microbial populations—progress in sampling technology and techniques to enumerate bacterial populations and their metabolic products should provide much needed clarity.
Best Practice Advice 6
Controversy remains concerning the role of SIBO in the pathogenesis of common functional symptoms, such as those regarded as components of irritable bowel syndrome.
Best Practice Advice 7
Management should focus on the identification and correction (where possible) of underlying causes, correction of nutritional deficiencies, and the administration of antibiotics. This is especially important for patients with significant maldigestion and malabsorption.
Best Practice Advice 8
Although irritable bowel syndrome has been shown to respond to therapy with a poorly absorbed antibiotic, the role of SIBO or its eradication in the genesis of this response warrants further confirmation in randomized controlled trials.
Best Practice Advice 9
There is a limited database to guide the clinician in developing antibiotic strategies for SIBO, in any context. Therapy remains, for the most part, empiric but must be ever mindful of the potential risks of long-term broad-spectrum antibiotic therapy.
hi. I self diagnosed SIBO recently (not had my gall bladder removed though) and managed to get a referral eventually from the GP to the local hospital for a SIBO test, which was positive. So I was given a week course of antibiotics.
Not sure how much of a difference it has made. Maybe a small improvement in my overall IBS symptoms but I still have bad days after eating something that sets it off.
I feel your pain. I had my gallbladder removed just over 2 years ago and at first my IBS (I had IBS before my gallbladder issues) was still as it was, having my gallbladder removed didn't make it worse but then suddenly around this time last year going into the middle of this year my IBS was horrific and worse than ever.
So bad that I thought I was going to have to quit my job. I'd have to get off the bus at random stops to find a toilet cos it would just come on suddenly with the cramps and diarrhea. I had to have time off work. It would just come on out of nowhere with no warning. All the doctor did was give me loperamide and referred me to gastroenterology.
Anyways.. during that time I felt incredibly low.
Fast forward to my gastro appointment. He didn't carry out any tests once he was aware of my gallbladder being removed. He mentioned how it can create some sort of issue with the bile etc.. I can't really explain it but it's an easy find if you Google it.
So he said he wants to try me on a medication called colesevelam.
At first I was sceptical especially because with how much I'd been suffering they weren't even offering any tests to rule things out.
Anyway I decided to go with it and thank the lord I did because up to now and I pray noting changes, they've changed me life!
I've been on them since early August and I've not had a single flare up. That's a miracle for me who was running to the toilet every day in pain.
Because you've had your gallbladder removed I'd say this medication is definitely worth mentioning to your Dr.
It still all seems too good to be true to me that now I'm able to eat whatever I want without worry of an episode and I can only hope and pray it stays that way with this medication.
Thank you for your reply I’m so happy for you that they have sorted you out and I pray it continues in a positive way, I can relate to everything you say regarding jumping off the bus to find the nearest loo your life is ruled around location of toilets
I will definitely have a chat with my doctor I’m being tested for Coeliac and stool tests after Christmas not worth doing it now because test clinics are closed for Christmas so I’m going to enjoy Christmas as limited food wise as it will be I won’t let that ruin it I will dose myself up with loperamide when needed to get through then come the new year get tested and go from there. I am more convinced having gallbladder removed has caused a lot of this but am quite miffed not one doctor had said anything about it but I will be.
Honestly, it's crazy because when I saw gastro he said about referring me somewhere else (can't remember the name) and as soon as I said I'd had my gallbladder removed he was like 'oh no, that won't work then'. It blows my mind that they don't have a look over our records.
Like you say though, do what you need to do after Xmas but definitely bear colesevelam in mind because it's been life changing for me. I take it twice a day with food and I don't have to worry like I used to.
HiYou have had lots of good advice but I just wanted to add that I would recommend anyone who has had their gall bladder removed who has sympto.s of ibs to get checked for bam bile acid malabsorption. I had my gall bladder removed in the middle of my nurse training aged 27. I already had a lot of bowel problems due to endometriosis on my bowel and likely ibs but also have crohns which I suspect has been part of my illhealth for quite a long time. I'm mid 50's now...
I had a sechat scan this summer which confirmed bam and I have been taking questran powders for quite a while prior to this as my consultant suspected bam.
I find my bam symptoms to be really painful I get an aching pain like I've been kicked but I find the powders help and also get diarrhoea which is urgent and often yellow in colour sorry tmi...
My consultant has said she may change the questran to a tablet but I have no probs taking them just dissolve in water or squash and let it settle for a few mins before taking it.
It can be tricky diagnosing different bowel disorders as they can all give similar symptoms but do persist with your consultant. I hope this helps a bit and you get answers soon.
Thank you for your reply I can’t believe the amount of people that have responded to my thread and it’s so sad to read their troubles but it shows we are not alone in this awful journey. I like you had endometriosis ended up having a hysterectomy at 40 then gallbladder in my 50’s so much points to gallbladder I’m having bloods and stool tests after Christmas once I have had them done I will be chatting to my GP about my gallbladder and what I’m going through hopefully get some more answers
Thank you once again you take care and have a good Christmas x
I am new to this site, just found it today. It has been very interesting reading all these replies to your question. I am in my mid 60s and had endrometerosis which was found during my infertility treatment (no children unfortunately). I then had my gall bladder removed, and 2 years ago had a full hysterectomy due to bleeding. I have had flare ups which I have put down to my IBS but now wondering if this is something that has been mentioned in there replies. Over the last few months my symptoms have got worse with painful colon and having to run to the toilet.
I think it may be good to have some tests the same as you just to see.
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