Cancer Free with Food by Liana Werner-Gray

[needabreakfromcancer]

Has anybody read "Cancer Free with Food?" I just got it and am impressed. It's by Liana Werner-Gray. I am curious as to if anyone else has read it.

[needabreakfromcancer]

It states that "After just three months on an intensive lifestyle program including a whole-foods, plant-based diet, over 500 genes that regulate cancer were beneficially affected, either turning off the cancer-causing genes or turning on the cancer-protective genes. No medication can do that."

[Ruffledfeathers]

That’s so interesting I’m a great believer in diet and excercise having a big influence on cancer and look forward to reading it. I’ve been on a plant based diet for 4 months but was loosing too much weight so introduced white meat and fish back in. I’ve felt so much better and it’s only been my family and friends comments that I’m getting too skinny that have me eating fish and meat again. My energy levels have improved and I don’t feel tired even after excercise even though I’m 69 ! You have to eat calorie dense food so you don’t lose weight and I hadn’t realised that. Plenty of good fats like advacado and beans etc. Good luck if you decide to try it and please let us know how you get on.

Best wishes x

[StE72 in reply to Ruffledfeathers]

So agree. I have done the same. No sugar, no processed, just veg, fruit, little chicken or fish. I feel much better and treatment going well. Good luck!!!

[Ruffledfeathers in reply to StE72]

Yes it’s amazing how much better you feel I’ve lost that ‘sluggish’ feeling . To boost my calories I make my own protein cherry smoothie which is 400 calories of good stuff . I can honestly say don’t miss the processed food and sugary things just miss my cheeeese 😊. It’s worth giving it a go all you’ll gain is better health and we all have to take that responsibility for our own well being.

Hope your treatment continues to go well StE72 and good luck needabreakfromcancer give it a go !!

Best wishes to you all x

[StE72 in reply to Ruffledfeathers]

Many thanks, you too.

Cherry smoothie sounds delicious!

I have cut down on cheese, but still eat a bit as I need calcium. Eat up to 2-3 eggs per week.

I got some advice from Care Across site which I found useful but tweaked what they recommend.

[Ruffledfeathers in reply to StE72]

Well I do eat a little cottage cheese and also a bit of yogurt for my smoothie but would love a great big chunk of cheddar or some blue cheese with port 😊 yumm ! I also eat eggs but just all in moderation

[Barbteeth in reply to Ruffledfeathers]

Hi there

Just out of interest do you eat eggs?... I like nuts and beans etc but I do get bored with those

I’ll order the book anyway and look at the recipes

Barb xx

[StE72]

Will find it, sounds interesting.

Has anyone read....How to starve cancer....without starving yourself by Jane McLelland?

I am finding that very interesting too particularly not relying just on chemo.......

[Barbteeth in reply to StE72]

Yes I’ve read that book and even trying some drugs from the COC...I find the whole thing bewildering ...as in what to believe as there’s so much rubbish out there and people cashing in on our predicament

Sounds harsh of me I know...we need more evidence but nobody will invest in trials for this sort of approach which is a shame because we’re still left in the dark trying our best to stay well

Barb xx

[StE72 in reply to Barbteeth]

Hi Barb, so true but I do think it is a combination of everything that helps ie. chemo drugs plus sensible diet plus exercise. We are all individual and have different needs.

It is a shame that there doesn’t appear to be any clinical trials, maybe in US, but not here is UK as NHS are too rigid in following their guidelines and protocol.

We just have to battle on.....!

Hope you are feeling bit better.

[Barbteeth in reply to StE72]

So true what you said

I’m a bit better today...dragged myself out for a walk and going to a yoga class later...I wanted to ride my horse but haven’t the energy...will ride with my daughter on Wednesday as she’s on half term holiday and she can help me tack up and lift heavy rugs etc...this time of year our horses are clipped and wear their heavyweight rugs so it’s strenuous doing all that without the riding as well...I used to be so fit and strong and it’s so depressing to feel weak and useless and relying on other people to help

Trying to eat better but have no appetite

Sorry for the long moaning but you did ask!!!

Barb xx

[StE72 in reply to Barbteeth]

No problem. It’s good to share our moans and worries!!!

That is the hard thing, not being able to do the things we used to do or took for granted; there’s always aches and pains afterwards! Enjoy your horses, they love you no matter what. Rose xx

[kearnan in reply to Barbteeth]

Yoga class? I am impressed. I have to get in some kind of routine. Lately, besides feeling constantly fatigued and my whole digestive system is so screwed up, I either have severe diarrhea or severe constipation, I can't get a hold on it and coupled with depression I am just miserable now for the first time with this whole thing.

Sometimes I just take a break from my meds. I need to have a routine which I do not. I always thought it would be nice NOT to work but if you do not drive and have no friends around, it is boring as heck. I could not imagine having the energy to do a yoga class but you did mention you are thin or at least your proper size, while I am way over what I should weigh. I can't even take walks which would clear my mind and hopefully make my body burn more calories bc its in my lungs and I am short of breath after one long avenue.

[needabreakfromcancer in reply to kearnan]

I hope that your situation improves. I can relate to your fatigue, as I think we all can. I am so terrified, because as I have mentioned earlier, I have extreme dizziness and balance problems because of the Exemestane. It has taken my independence away. I am so grateful as I have a wonderful friend/neighbor who is helping me. The thing that upsets me is that my oncologists wants me to go on Xeloda, which she admits, may make me dizzier. She can forget that as I probably wouldn't be able to hold my head up at all. I did call The Mayo Clinic to see if they can help. Hopefully, they can, or I am screwed. Just hang in there and know you aren't alone.

[SunshineBoss]

No but I’ll check into it. I do own the book, Beating cancer with nutrition by Patrick (Can’t think of his last name of the top of my head - starts with a Q) I really like the book and I think nutrition has a lot to do with keeping us healthier. I would recommend it.

[kearnan]

I'm curious, not here to play devil's advocate.

When diagnosed, the first onco told me not to feel guilty. When I was bewildered and asked why I would feel guilty, she told me when she told a majority of women that they had breast cancer, they would freak out out and say I don't smoke, I don't drink, I am a vegetarian, I only eat organic foods, I run marathons, work out daily, what did I do wrong? The onco told me cancer is random.

So I wonder if these women were already practicing a very active life style (That was not me in any form or shape:).

So I am wondering if these women already were going above and beyond to maintain a healthy life style, and they still got breast cancer, then how can these diets and supplements and such eliminate the cancer if extremely healthy women got it anyway.

Does it give you more energy or does one believe it kills cancer cells?

[Julie2233 in reply to kearnan]

It took me a year to get referred to the breast consultant for my primary bc because the gp told me that I wasn't the type of person to get cancer despite a strong family history. I was fit, active, good bmi, non smoker,healthy diet etc etc. but hey I not only got primary but secondary too 😊

[kearnan in reply to Julie2233]

Aaah. He was a GP. He was not an oncologist. My primary does not even pretend to know anything about cancer. More than one onco has told me and other patients that it does not matter how healthy you were before diagnosis or that your family does not have a history of cancer. It is RANDOM. I had a woman on another forum board that had cancers years ago, chemo, rad and double breast mastectomy. 12 years later she has mets to her liver. She has three sisters. One of them had stage i cancer and the other sister got stage ii cancer and did the same chemo, etc. Only one sister did not get cancer. They were all tested and NONE of them had the gene for getting cancer.

Obviously, like Angeline Jolie, she was tested for that specific gene and had the gene that gave her an 80% of getting breast cancer. She watched her mother die from it fairly young so she decided to get both breasts removed thus reducing her chances significantly.

On the block I grew up as a child in Brooklyn, my next door neighbor who is my age got breast cancer, the girl across the street that went to the same catholic school as me got breast cancer and the girl that lived on the last house on the block also got breast cancer. Just coincidence.

[Julie2233 in reply to kearnan]

With the NHS the gps are the gate keepers to the consultants. You can only see a consultant of any kind if the gp refers you. So if the gp doesn't think you are the type of person to get cancer you don't get to hear the breast consultant's or oncologist's opinion unless you are very persistent.

With the private system you can self refer in many cases by ringing the consultants secretary.

[Barbteeth in reply to Julie2233]

Julie that’s what I did...sick if just being prescribed painkillers...I booked an appointment with a private GP...she ordered an MRI and after looking at that booked me with an oncologist who I saw the same day...I was then sorted out quickly with biopsies etc and a treatment plan

I’m not a great fan of the nhs...I worked in it for about 30 years as a dentist then changed to private as there were too many limitations on treatments ...it’s fine for emergencies and the fact that it’s free for all is brilliant but I’m afraid too overstrained for people like us who need a proper diagnosis and treatment plan...when I was diagnosed metastatic...Ibrance had just been approved on nhs so although it was available the year before many ladies missed out unless they paid privately

Barb xx

[kearnan in reply to Barbteeth]

Here in US, since we have such a major epidemic with opiods and such, the govt. has changed the rules so doctors are almost scared to give you anything stronger than a Tylenol. At least they give you pain meds. The problem with that though is that eventually they lose their effectiveness and you need a higher and higher strength to keep the pain at bay. I actually got into a screaming match with the plastic surgeon who did my surgery. I mean he tells me that the recovery period (I had large tunnels cut out of my inner upper groin area and OMG...the pain was unbearable. He wanted to give me Tylenol with codeine and I said no, I am going to need something stronger. He gave me percocet for ONE week. 5 mg. to take one every four hours. It did not even touch the pain. All the stitches ripped out by third day when home bc of the location. I told him I need a stronger strength and he said No and began to tell me about the high level of addiction in the US for opiods (the govt. keeps a close watch and they don't want to be bothered.) I went ballistic bc I was in pain. I said check on the computer, I have not been prescribed any opiods in about five years. I said I am not claiming a "back injury". He said I told you that the recovery would be very painful and I said yes and I assumed you would make sure that I did not have to suffer through the pain. He started to talk again and I put up my hand and said I don't want to hear it. I will go to the hospital ER right down the block and when they see the holes in my leg and the pain I am in, they will prescribe something stronger. I said how am I going to get freaking addicted, if I am on them for a few weeks. I said it's just as unethical as a doctor to UNDER treat a patient that is pain. He then gave me 30 10 mg. each. Here in US, you have to be close to death to get anything for pain. I want to wait until I really cannot handle the pain (am not in pain now, just discomfort from side effects) bc if I ever get that bad, I want them to work. But the cancer center I go to has a no opiod policy (and they brag about it).

[Barbteeth in reply to kearnan]

I call that cruel!!!

My oncologist and pain consultant give me what I want...I have had codeine morphine and ocycodone....no way would just paracetamol and ibuprofen control my pain...also addiction is rare when these meds are prescribed for pain relief...it’s mainly when people want the nice feeling from drugs and they become addicted

I guess in some countries there is such a fear of litigation

Barb xx

[kearnan in reply to Julie2233]

Very restrictive then. I rarely go to my primary. If I have an ear problem, I go to an ENT doctor, if I have digestive issues, I go to a gastro doctor. I am glad here in the US we do not need a gate keeper. We can make our own appt. with specialists. I would only go to my primary if I needed some antibiotics for a cold or something.

[Lynn-in-California]

You could have been the healthiest eater on planet Earth and still get cancer. Also, if you have stage four cancer, what you eat will do NOTHING to change your prognosis.

Here's an interesting tidbit from the world of breast cancer research. It's called "the cancer paradox." If you are overweight and you have been diagnosed with breast cancer, research shows that you a likely to LIVE LONGER if you stay overweight (and more likely to die sooner if you lose weight)! Women who are diagnosed with breast cancer and who change their diet to lose weight, DIE SOONER. So, eat cake, enjoy your yummy dinner, and just continue to take your cancer meds.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

[Barbteeth in reply to Lynn-in-California]

Just read this but it’s not conclusive...still a lot of questions to answer

I’m quite thin ( not skinny) so I wasn’t very thrilled reading this

Barb xx

[kearnan in reply to Barbteeth]

Note that it said "women who change their diets to lose weight". Not women who are just thin or the size they should be.

I am overweight, heavy enough for both of us. I would not take that to heart. Treating cancer is a big moneymaker, and the amount of books that people write about how they cured their cancer or some kind of food that cures that cancer, they make big money from these type of books. I do not deprive myself. I never did before cancer and won't after cancer for sure. I love rib eye steak, hamburgers, fish, chicken, french fries, etc. Right now eating sharp cheddar cheese on crackers. You can't believe everything you read.

I told my onco that I have been feeling sluggish so next appt. she is going to refer me to a nutritionist. I need to lose some weight to feel better but I cant walk long distances bc its in my lungs and I get short of breath.

Everything in moderation I believe (although I am overweight because I go over moderation). LOL.

Nothing is conclusive but if people do some routine and in their mind they believe it makes them feel better then all the more power to them. I just don't believe in all these supplements and juicing and other stuff has any real affect on cancer.

Otherwise, perfectly healthy people that took good care of themselves would never get cancer.

Plus when I am not at the cancer center, except for this ONE forum board, I go to the library and take out autobiographies. I would have no patience and be bored to death reading any books about cancer for sure. There are hundreds of them out there and I feel like, fortune tellers and psychics, they take advantage of people. IMO.

[Barbteeth in reply to kearnan]

Thanks for that...I misread that bit!!

I’ve always eaten fairly healthily apart from drinking a bit too much so I’ve cut that down and tbh I’m not that bothered...have wine/gin when out with the girls

There is a lot of money to be made from cancer as we’re so desperate to find anything to prolong life

However my cancer is oestrogen dependent and my meds take care of that aspect so I think stopping dairy and other stuff won’t make a big difference...I do avoid soya products though

Barb xx

[Teddielottie in reply to Barbteeth]

I agree with everything you have said here Barb!...

I don’t know if I have been fortunate , so far!, to have had no evidence of active disease for 3 scans , but I do know it must be down to my only 2 meds; Ibrance and Letrozole ,as I have taken nothing else and not changed anything , tho’ I live a fairly healthy lifestyle...with the occasional sweet treat!!

My next CT scan is December and I am realistic ,in that I know from reading on this site , that eventually cancer cells can get clever and alternative meds are then required , so I continue to read all I can to be ready to make changes when required . I am a bit of a sceptic ( there are a few of us on here ! !) and look for scientific evidence on everything . However I can understand why ladies look beyond conventional only , when faced with Mbc.

[Barbteeth in reply to Teddielottie]

It’s such a dilemma...one minute I want to try anything and everything then that little voice of reason tells me it’s all rubbish and just take the meds which I do of course

I just worry that in 5-10 years they’ll discover that Metformin or membendazole or something else is the answer and I’ve not taken it and regret it....ugh!!

Barb xx

[kearnan in reply to Barbteeth]

I started living on my own since I was 18 years old. I have never ever eaten healthy. First, I am a very very bad cook. I mean awful. Even things that should be simple. Plus, unlike my friends, I do not enjoy cooking. I hate it. I hate all the work maybe its because I feel its too much work for one person. I buy premade meals fresh all the time and just throw them in oven. I have hardly any cooking utensils. None of my friends would ever eat anything I cooked. I never eat vegetables. Was not allowed to leave the tables until I finished my vegetables and remember thinking as soon as I am on my own, I will never eat another vegetable.

I went to shoprite a few months ago (Rule: never go food shopping when you are hungry). I put my stuff on the counter for the lady to ring up and she said to me "I can tell you have kids for sure." I looked at what I had bought and realized I had bought three boxes of strawberry Good Humor ice cream pops (in my defense, they were on sale:), oreo cookies with double cream, pudding cups with cans of whipped cream. As I looked at what I was buying, I realize I had bought NO FOOD at all. LOL.....I let her think I had children. Was too embarrassed to admit it.

[Julie2233 in reply to Lynn-in-California]

Thank you for posting this. I have to admit that I opened it with some trepidation as since I started treatment for bc I have experienced steady weight gain with my bmi going from around 22 to nearly 27(gain of around 25lbs), but my latest meds have returned my appetite to normal and at last I've started to lose weight which I've been really happy about and I didn't want to read that this was going to reduce my chances.

But I thought this article was well written and balanced, acknowledging that it's not clear cut and other factors as well as weight impact on health.

[kearnan in reply to Julie2233]

I remember when I was first diagnosed (and I was alone) and it felt surreal. The very first question I asked was can I expect to lose a lot of weight (thinking that was what cancer does). They said no, if anything, you may gain because of the meds. I was like Not fair. I need to be more active. I have allowed myself on this new med (Verzenio) to actually get scared of leaving my apt. and taking a bus or train somewhere because it is like I have no control. If I have to go out and will be on a bus or a train, now I automatically pop two Imodium AD. There is nothing worse than being far from your apt. and suddenly you feel like you are going to have an accident. I thought I had this under control and lately, even with Imodium, I am having bouts of Diarrhea. Not pleasant and it makes me nervous to leave my apt. so I have to get over that.

[Julie2233 in reply to kearnan]

That is really awful for you. I think you are very courageous and determined.

My friend's mum has a similar thing from a chronic stomach condition and if they go somewhere new my friend has to go first to locate all the public disabled toilets and find out how to get access to them and to check if they are clean. My colleagues are involved in arranging royal visits to the county and my friend always compared her scouting trips for her mother to the security checks before a royal visit, they had to be as thorough and were planned in as much detail.

There must be thousands of us suffering in the same way from different conditions.

My tummy has settled down now after changing meds but for a few weeks it felt like an alien being attached to me. Constipation, diarrhoea and sickness all at the same time is an interesting combination.

[Teddielottie in reply to Lynn-in-California]

I have been vegetarian for 35 years ( only eating a little dairy ) , have never smoked, drank little , kept fit and active and had no known family history of breast cancer, yet I was diagnosed stage 4 breast cancer de novo at 53 after my second routine screening . ..I did however have high oestrogen and fibroids years ago ,which were operated on !

I was at the lowest end of healthy BMI when diagnosed 2 years ago and now I am at the top end of healthy BMI . I would like to lose a bit as my old clothes no longer fit ! ... but my onc did say to me that my weight was a little on the low side when I started on ibrance / letrozole. I have continued to eat a balanced diet but still have a sweet treat ... I eat more nuts and berries these days and have always eaten plenty fruit and veg , but I have not ,so far , taken any supplements nor done juicing etc ...my onc said as everything was in balance and I was doing well ...why change things ? I will continue to review what is out there and reconsider my diet and supplements if my situation changes . x

[YellowSunshine]

Hi

I haven’t read it but I have come across, “William Li: Eat to Beat Disease.”

[Barbteeth]

Oh I know you’re right Sandra...just wondering what pearls of wisdom there are in this book!!

Probably stuff we’ve all read before and as you say she’s not metastatic like us

Might have some decent recipes if nothing else

Barb xx

[Hidden]

Hi,

This sounds right up my alley. I will look and see if it's available at my local library. If not, I'll check my county's catalogue and order it in if it's not available locally. I've just finished reading Dr Michael Greger's How not to die cookbook. His recipes look and sound amazing, so I have compiled a list of the ones I liked.

Thanks so much for mentioning this book,

Sophie x

[kearnan in reply to Hidden]

What a horrible name for the title of a book "How not to die" cookbook. The title alone would made me pass right over buying it.

[Hidden in reply to kearnan]

I can see how the title could be off-putting, but it's actually a very good book, as is the first How not to die book.

[kearnan in reply to Hidden]

You mean there is a series of "How not to die cookbooks?"

[Hidden in reply to kearnan]

There are a few by Dr Michael Greger:

How not to die: Discover the foods scientifically proven to prevent and reverse disease

How not to die cookbook: Over 100 recipes to help prevent and reverse disease

How not to diet: The groundbreaking science of healthy, permanent weight loss (I haven't read this one).

[kearnan in reply to Hidden]

Everybody has their own thoughts on this, but why would women who were already living very healthy life styles, no alcohol, vegetarians, only organic food, no smoking, running daily, doing marathons get cancer in the first place. My onco said they always feel guilty because they cannot figure what they did wrong.

So if women who were already living very healthy life styles and active lifestyles are diagnosed with breast cancer and stage if, how is eating certain foods going to prevent and reverse a disease. You would think that if this were true, many of these "healthy women" would not have gotten it in the first place.

With me it was kind of an ironic joke. I smoked since I was 18 and was 57 when diagnosed and I kind of had to laugh that I got breast cancer but spread in my lungs. Never got lung cancer which I would have definitely said my own fault bc I knew the repercussions of long-term smoking but I choose to continue.

But I did not get lung cancer, I got breast cancer that spread to the lungs. My friend's father NEVER smoked a cigarette in his life nor did anyone in that house and yet he developed lung cancer and died from it. I still acknowledge though that smoking is the number one reason for a person getting lung cancer. If I had gotten diagnosed with that, I would have had no one to blame but myself.

If healthy women are getting diagnosed daily, I don't see how certain foods can prevent or reverse the cancer. I just don't like when authors, and I do not care if they have a medical degree, put announcements like it will PREVENT and REVERSE cancer when that is just not true.

[Hidden in reply to kearnan]

I just don't know. After I was diagnosed I asked my GP what had caused my breast cancer, as I had lived a relatively healthy lifestyle (I've never smoked, rarely drink and eat lots of fruit and vegetables) although I did have a sweet tooth and had a tendency to over indulge. I eat more moderately now and try not to overeat. She just said I have breasts and it was a lightning bolt. I suspect the birth control pill and perhaps even depo provera may have caused my disease. Making lifestyle changes has helped me feel much better, so I believe there is merit in that.

[kearnan in reply to Hidden]

I never had children, never took birth control, and still got diagnosed. I do not think there is a certain type or way to avoid it except for those that have that BCRA(?) gene where it is definite that you have a very high chance of getting cancer.

[Hidden in reply to kearnan]

Quite possibly. I am seeing my oncologist on the 11th, so I'll ask her if my notes mention if I have a particular mutation.

[kearnan in reply to Hidden]

Usually it runs in the family so if numerous female members of your family got breast cancer, they would usually test to see if you had the gene. Angeline Jolie's mother died at an early age for breast cancer so she got herself tested and she had the same gene and it almost guarantees 80% that she would get breast cancer so she decided to have them taken off.

Another lady on another forum board with three sisters. All three of them got breast cancer (only her with stage iv) and one sister did not. They were all tested but were found NOT to have any specific gene. Just a weird coincidence. One had stage i, another stage ii and the original poster had had stage ii, did the chemo, rad, mastectomy and 12 years later it was found in her live. She has been on Ibrance and falsodex for three years now and continues to work as full-time as a fifth grade school teacher.

[Hidden in reply to kearnan]

It doesn't run in my family as far as I know. My mum died from non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, and I was told there is no link to her cancer and mine. Her father died from cancer several years before I was born (oral cancer, I think) and none of my aunts have had breast cancer, except for a non-blood aunt, and one of my cousins on my dad's side died from breast cancer a few months before I was diagnosed. But I think that's too distant to be considered a family link. I don't have sisters, so I will never know if it could have run in my immediate family.

[kearnan in reply to Hidden]

I like her blunt response. Because you have breasts. That is basically what I was told. It does not matter if you eat healthy or unhealthy, etc. that cancer is random and someone can get it whose family never had a history of it. Winning lotto is random also but that never happened to me!

I think my biggest shock was that 1 out of 8 women get breast cancer. That is alot of women. And that there were different kids. I thought there was just breast cancer and it was under one umbrella. I did not know until I was diagnosed that there were different kinds and different stages so I was clueless until I was diagnosed.

[Hidden in reply to kearnan]

Yes, she was a brilliant doctor. I didn't mind her response. She moved away right after my diagnosis. She called me just as she was getting ready to leave to check on me, which I thought was really kind.

That is a shocking statistic. I have several friends who have had breast cancer, but they were all early stage and are now considered cured. I didn't know much about the disease either until my diagnosis. But I did know that if it was metastatic that it would not be cured.

[kearnan in reply to Hidden]

Well we know that even women who have been told they were cured, years ago, have it come with as stage iv. They went through chemo, rad and had their breasts removed and years later it is found in the liver, bones, etc. My friend got breast cancer stage ii, did the whole routine and had that breast removed. They have now put her on tamoxifen to help reduce the chances of a reoccurrence. I think years ago they would only keep them on it for five years, but now with the discovery of cancer coming back into distant organs (after they were told they were cancer free), they now make them take it for 10 years.

[Barbteeth in reply to kearnan]

When I had original cancer diagnosis 25 years ago I just had a mastectomy...no tamoxifen...my consultant told me my life wasn’t in danger....hmm

Barb xx

[kearnan in reply to Barbteeth]

They didn't know as much about the possibility of a person who was treated for breast cancer in the past and now it comes back years later as stage iv. Medical treatments for breast cancer has advanced so much in 25 years. If diagnosed at stage iv 25 years ago, it was considered terminal and now women with stage iv are living past 10 years or more. Now, they understand that even if treated for stage i, ii and iii and they think they got it all, that it can return so now they give the ladies tamoxifen or something else to take after they are completed with their treatment to try and avoid it returning.

[kearnan in reply to Hidden]

Google Holly Kitchen video. She had cancer, had chemo, radiation, and both breasts removed as she was married with two young children. She was told she was "cured." Fast forward, she was diagnosed with stage iv. She does this video with cards showing how unfamiliar many people are with stage iv and she assumed, that without her breasts, she was safe from breast cancer returning. Her video went viral as to what people think and what people say and should NOT say to someone with mbc. Unfortunately, she did pass away but not without making her mark on MBC.

[Hidden in reply to kearnan]

Yes, I have heard of Holley Kitchen and watched videos she made. She started off with stage 3 breast cancer, and then it metastasised to her bones. I was diagnosed de novo, as many of us were. So I didn't go through the usual treatment plan that early stage women go through.

[Barbteeth in reply to kearnan]

Same....what a title!!!

One day I’m up for this extreme diet change etc...then another day I think f...k it I’m going to eat exactly what I please!!!

It’s easy to obsess over everything you eat and drink...I do eat healthy the majority of the time...always did all my life but I still want to enjoy life...I’m meeting up with some pals for lunch today and will probably have a glass of wine and tomorrow I’m on a gin tasting night so no hope there!!!... but I’ll probably not have another drink for weeks

All about balance and moderation

Barb xx

[Hidden in reply to Barbteeth]

Hi Barb,

Yes, I know! The title can put some people off. I read it because of a recommendation, and I'm glad I did. I came across some really good recipes from the book that I would like to try. Even my steak loving husband saw some recipes he liked the look of, which is saying something! Dr Greger is a medical doctor, so I felt I could trust what he was saying in the book. He also has a web site (nutritionfacts.org/) which is interesting.

I know what you mean about moderation. Even though I'm on a strict programme at the moment, I do believe in the odd indulgence. I had a glass of Chardonnay on the plane ride back from America in September, and I really enjoyed it! So, no guilt! If I do treat myself I tell myself that there is no guilt attached to it. Otherwise why bother?

Sophie x

[Barbteeth in reply to Hidden]

Exactly

It’s reassuring I guess that he’s medically trained

I’m having wine at lunch...sod it!!

Barb xx

[Hidden in reply to Barbteeth]

Hi Barb,

Yes, that's how I feel too. I feel like I can trust someone who is a medical doctor and has the inside scoop on things. He admitted in his books that when he was at medical school he did not learn much about nutrition and healthy eating. He had to take that all on board later on.

I'm off into town later for my zoladex injection, my CT scan on Thursday and zometa infusion on Friday. What a week! The bus for my infusion was cancelled again, so I'll just go to the Macmillan unit for that instead. I don't mind. I think I will just stick with that rather than hoping for the bus as I know the drill, and I enjoy the interaction with the nurses and other patients.

Sophie x

[Barbteeth in reply to Hidden]

My week not as bad as yours...bloods and denosumab injection tomorrow then radiation to my sacrum Friday...ugh

Barb xx

[kearnan in reply to Barbteeth]

May I ask how long you have been getting the Xygeva shots? I just had my first one the last visit and now that is added to the mix because of the holes in my spine. She also has me taking calcium and Vitamin D supplements. Does cancer really create holes in the spine? Just annoyed about another shot of heavy duty med. I don't know why if that extra injection is causing me to feel so extremely fatigued this month. It has been really bad but I have a bad habit of giving in to it and taking naps rather than trying to fight it.

[Hidden in reply to Barbteeth]

I hope your appointments all go well for you, Barb. I had a different GP give my zoladex injection this afternoon and I came away feeling like I had been stabbed. He is a great doctor though. What is the denosumab injection like? Do you get a local anaesthetic? Let's hope your radiotherapy session goes well and that you don't have any bad side effects again.

Sophie x

[Barbteeth in reply to Hidden]

The denosumab injection is easy...little prick in the skin on upper arm...no problem

This radiation on Friday isn’t intense or strong just for pain relief...hope helps

Thanks for your kind wishes

All the best to you this week

Barb xx

[Hidden in reply to Barbteeth]

That's good to hear.

I had palliative radiotherapy when this all started. I didn't feel the benefits right away though, but hopefully you will.

Let's both get through this week with treatments and other appointments. Is it the weekend yet?!

Sophie 😂😂

[Barbteeth in reply to Hidden]

Wish it was the weekend

I’m aware that the pain will be worse for a while after the radiotherapy but I’ll put up with it if it helps eventually...god knows I’ve got plenty medication!!!

Barb xx

[Hidden in reply to Barbteeth]

Morning Barb,

That's what I found so off-putting about radiotherapy. I couldn't believe the pain I was in. It lasted for five days. It started off feeling like my legs were aching from walking too much (I walk for miles each week, but hardly ever feel the strain). Then it got so bad I had trouble sleeping. I couldn't sit comfortably. The only relief I got (apart from the codeine) was standing or walking around. It's not often I cry from pain I'm feeling, but this was one of those occasions. So I just hope that you have the painkillers at the ready in case you need them.

Sophie ❤

[Barbteeth in reply to Hidden]

Morning Sophie

I can cope with five days of bad pain as I’m in pain all the time anyway and if there’s improvement afterwards it will have been worth it

Barb xx

[Hidden in reply to Barbteeth]

Hi Barb,

The constant pain must really wear you down. Hopefully the treatment will put a stop to all that, although I don't get why we have to suffer from such horrible pain from radiotherapy before the original symptoms get any better. My oncologist called it a "flare" but that was putting it mildly! Let us know how you get on.

Sophie x

[Teddielottie in reply to Barbteeth]

Hoping the palliative therapy is more bearable ! x 🤗

[Teddielottie in reply to Hidden]

Good luck Sophie on Thursday ! x 🍀

[Hidden in reply to Teddielottie]

Thank you! I am hoping for good results. I get the results on the 11th when I see my oncologist. x

[kearnan in reply to Barbteeth]

It's one of my worst traits. I cannot not allow myself NOT to eat things I know I should not. Years ago, before cancer, the large law firm I was at would host Weight Watchers and if we lost 10 pounds, they would pay. I lost 7 pounds the first week (water weight) but then my friend and I got creative. We would go out to the bar at night and have several oj and vodkas and would count that as a fruit since it was made with orange juice. We did lose weight anyway, but I think that was more from the dancing we would do all night. We made up our own scoreboard for how many points certain drinks were LOL....When losing weight was so much easier.

[Barbteeth in reply to kearnan]

That’s hilarious...vodka obviously calorie free!!

Barb xx

[kearnan in reply to Barbteeth]

I haven't had a drink in several months but that is because I live alone and although I have liquor in the house, I do no like to drink alone. But when I visit on certain friend who loves to drink, I will have two or three (vodka only). And then can go months without drinking. I have two bottles of Grey Goose vodka in my cabinet (they were supposed to be xmas gifts but I never went there so still have them.) I have the eating habits of a six year old. Sometimes I will eat Reese's peanut butter cups for breakfast. Or for dinner. Yes, I am serious. But now feeling sluggish so I will go to this nutritionist that my onco is going to recommend and see what she has to say. I do know I need to be more active.

When I had that surgery, I was literally bedridden for almost four straight months because of where the surgery was done made it so so hard to walk. I am trying to drink more water bc I realized I was hardly drinking anything but what I needed for my medicine and I am feeling a bit better when drinking more water but then if I have to walk somewhere, I feel like I have to go to bathroom immediately. Dilemmas LOL

[Barbteeth in reply to kearnan]

Well at least you have good intentions

I have a friend who’s a urologist and he says women are useless at bladder control!!.. says you feel like you should have a wee but it means your bladder is only partially full...we need to ignore these signals!!

Barb xx

[kearnan in reply to Barbteeth]

I can't ignore them bc if I cough or for some reason if walking up stairs, it trickles out pretty strong, strong enough to even go through pants I am wearing. I use long incontinence pads every single day, changing them several times a day. Nothing worse than coughing and feeling it release and your pants are wet.

[YellowSunshine in reply to Hidden]

I think you will like Dr. William Li’s info. Look him up on YouTube if you are able to.

[Teddielottie]

Thanks for the website... some nice recipes ! x

[myrtice]

I have not. I will order and read. I just ordered Jow to Starve Cancer by Jane McLelland. Thank you for sharing.

[Hidden]

Hi Sandra,

There are only certain members of staff at my practice who are qualified to give Zoladex injections and they are all doctors. They had a nurse giving them, but she left as she was following the hospital's protocol (where they don't offer patients a local anaesthetic). Where I am, all patients are offered a local anaesthetic, although it didn't do me much good today! My stomach still aches.

Sophie ❤

[Hidden]

Morning Sandra,

No, they don't use the cream or patch. Funnily enough, I have some of that cream in my cupboard that was prescribed for my brother, but we didn't use it. I should have used it! I'm not sure how it works for doctors billing for what they do, as it's the NHS and we don't pay. So I don't know what the breakdown in costs would look like.

Sophie ❤

[Barbteeth]

Just started reading this book and it mentions flaxseeds as being beneficial for breast cancer patients

I understood that foods like this which contain phytoestrogens are not advised

Any views on this?... I avoid soya products for the same reason

Barb xx

[Hidden in reply to Barbteeth]

Hi Barb,

I used to eat flaxseeds before my diagnosis but like you got scared that they could fuel cancer, so stopped eating them. Then my integrative doctor recommended I eat 1 tbsp each day, as it's supposed to help with breast cancer (I don't know the science behind it). So I have reintroduced the flaxseeds.

Sophie x

[Barbteeth]

Oh I feel for you...it’s awful

Mine is only when I start moving about...walking riding etc...fine when I lie down so I sleep ok

Went for a short ride yesterday and pain was bad but went swimming today and only very mild pain...mainly hurts where my original fracture was

However I’ve started to get pain in my sacrum so that’s where I’m getting radiotherapy...if successful then I’ll ask if the fracture can be irradiated as well as I guess it’ll never heal normally and it spoils my life...nobody understands..they think it’s just backache but it’s very different to that!!

I’ll try flaxseeds now you’ve reassured me that they’re not detrimental

All the best

Barb xx

[Barbteeth]

Thanks Sandra

I think you should think about it...might benefit you

I have so many bone mets everywhere but lots of them don’t hurt bizarrely

Barb xx

[Barbteeth]

Just read more of this book and on the whole it has some recipes I might consider although I’ve come across similar elsewhere...however it makes some sweeping statements for example that microwaving food is carcinogenic!!! and 75 of the population is lactose intolerant!!!

It’s a waste of money in my opinion

Barb xx

[Barbteeth]

Hi Sandra...it went ok...just had one dose

The radiologist said I may get an increase in pain during the next week or so but to just take painkillers and it will improve

She also said my skin may feel dry or sunburnt...however I never had a problem with my skin after the SABR and that was much more intense...I guess I’ll know soon if I get side effects....hopefully not

I’ll keep you posted

Barb xx

[Barbteeth]

I’m off Ibrance for a week I guess because of that...tagged it on to the normal week off so 2 weeks off in total...I’m a bit achey but not horrible...not riding today as I think that would be stupid...weather vile anyway...went out with a horsey chum for brunch...she cheers me up

Barb xx

[kearnan]

The voice of reason. I agree.

[Barbteeth]

Hi Sandra

Not yet...in fact it’s slightly worse and my tummy tender

However the pain ‘flare’ is to be expected in many patients so I’m just waiting for it to improve...having the radiotherapy in the sacrum area I guess will upset my colon/bladder area....I was warned about diarrhoea but I take codeine so that’s probably why I’ve not been affected by that

I’ve been fatigued but went for a swim today which made me feel better..and last night went to ‘Madame Butterfly ‘...love opera but it did make me cry!!

What a life!!

[Barbteeth]

Oh Mama Mia will be fun...my girls saw it in London and loved it

The whole ABBA thing reminds me of my university days...

I’m pleased your pain has improved

Barb xx