PLMD vs RLS

[bluffpt]

Hi, would anyone just describing what the difference is in practical terms please?

Many thanks,

Nick

[Joolsg]

rls-uk.org/periodic-leg-mov... with RLS-UK website.

[SueJohnson]

PLMD is when your legs move involuntarily generally at night when you are asleep. RLS is when you have the urge to move your legs.

[ziggypiggy]

PLMD are leg movements that occur when you are asleep. They can be measured in a sleep study for frequency and severity. Most PLMD movements do not wake you from sleep but they can prevent you from entering restorative sleep. So even though you may get the quantity of sleep you need, you may find yourself tired and groggy during the day. RLS occurs when one is awake. Symptoms include the need to move ones legs are other body parts to get relief. RLS patients may also report a variety of pain symptoms associated with the restlessness.

Most medications are effective in treating both PLMD and RLS.

As a lucky recipient of both of these maladies, I just imagine that my sleep movements are a continuation of my awake symptoms, and that my body twitches when I'm sleeping as its own way to get relief.

Just my theory. But I'm sticking to it. RLS is so insidious that it haunts you while you sleep. Lol

I do acknowledge that one can suffer from PLMD but not have RLS and vice versa. I cannot find any studies that link the two. Someone here maybe can.

The one annoying problem I have concerning my PLMD is that I'm unaware of when I'm experiencing breakthough symptoms because I'm asleep. I just have to hope that my medication holds out for the night

[givingITMybest in reply to ziggypiggy]

I discovered I have both RLS and PLMD after a sleep study. I rarely wake feeling refreshed and there does not seem much hope. I've seen 4 sleep doctors. Discouraging.

[HeBgBgirl in reply to ziggypiggy]

Lol or here’s a scenario: if and that’s a big IF I get to actually sleep in my bed or at all I am doing a marathon all night long!! My husband is the lucky recipient of my crazed kicking and arm flailing!! I’ve kicked him in the balls & stomach and punched him in the face, head and I’m sure everywhere else!! So a lot of nights if I can sit/lay down I do so in tv room and sleep in recliner!! Uggghhh

I’m so frustrated with this disease! Doctors here in USA are not well versed with RLS. All the best like Winkleman, Early & Berkowitz are all in other states so I can’t even do a telehealth appointment with them. My insurance won’t cover it!!! It’s just a cluster _uck here!! Sorry…

Here’s some info from the RLS.org pamphlet I have. RLS.org

Causes, diagnosis & treatment

For the patient living with restless legs syndrome.

RLS/plmd

[SueJohnson in reply to HeBgBgirl]

The RWJ Barnabas Health Center in Elizabeth NJ mentions using opioids rwjbh.org/trinitas-regional...

[amrob123]

You can find clear definitions of both online, so i'll answer from my personal experience of it.

My RLS is mild, my PLMD is severe.

So, for me, RLS is a minor annoyance that can rear its head when sitting watching tv or some other sedentary activity. By and large it only happens in the evening. At worst, it can mean it takes longer to fall asleep. When it strikes, i feel as though there are currents of electricity coursing through my legs. I have noticed that certain foods trigger/worsen RLS.

In relation to my PLMD, i'm not aware of the limb movements as they occur when i'm asleep (and they don't wake me) but i have dozens of micro arousals (awakenings) per hour throughout the night. This means that i can awaken after 7 or 8 hours of sleep, feeling wretchedly tired and will be tired throughout the day.

[bluffpt in reply to amrob123]

What you describe is similar to myself.

[Leeserann in reply to amrob123]

Yup!! Sit on!! I’m exhausted. Gabapentin is controlling the RLS beautifully. But not the PLMD. I’m waking up from my sleep kicking from the PLMD and I’m exhausted.

[bluffpt]

Many thanks for the replies - for many years I had "RLS" in the evening, especially when tired. The last say 10years it has always been at night, characterised sometimes by my movements waking my partner, but 9 nights out of 10 by my waking up after 1-3hrs of sleep with acutely painful legs (typically quadriceps and/or my calves) . I am now on 350mg/day Pregabalin and until very recently, this has made a significant difference, though i still wake at night and more often than not have to get up for a couple of hours sometime between midnight-3am ish - and given I get up at 5/5.30am during the week, it's very debilitating.

[707twitcher]

This has me wondering.... For years I assumed I just had PLMD, and RLS just popped up a year ago because of augmentation on DAs. My symptoms before augmentation: sleep study diagnosed PLMD 13 years ago; never had symptoms while awake; breakthroughs would manifest as waking up about 30 minutes after falling asleep and not being able to go back to sleep without taking more DA due to twitching. So, did this constitute PLMD, or was the twitching after waking RLS (even though this only happened 30 minutes after falling asleep)? Not that it matters - I clearly have RLS now, with symptoms arising any time I'm lying down.

[pianoplayerPLMD]

In my case when in bed I feel an unpleasant tension in my thigh and the muscle seizes up (visibly) - then my leg jerks forward and upward. I am not asleep. Repeats every 20 seconds or so. If it does happen when I’m asleep it wakes me up. I don’t believe I have it whilst sleeping and that I don’t know about it. That is not my experience at all.

[Guitarpickin in reply to pianoplayerPLMD]

My experience is similar to yours in that the involuntary movements absolutely prevent me from sleeping and sometimes wake me up in the middle of the night. Like you, I can sometimes see the jerk/twitch building in the muscles before finally shooting down my leg causing the twitch/jerk/kick. This only happens in my legs though. My upper body jerks are completely unanticipated. I also used to think that every movement disturbed me (and it wasn’t happening without my knowledge). But as the years have gone on, I think I probably do have involuntary movements while asleep that fortunately do not fully wake me. Without a sleep study or a nighttime camera filming us while we sleep, there’s really no way to know. My partner can’t even tell me because he’s out when he sleeps (so lucky!!).

[pianoplayerPLMD in reply to Guitarpickin]

Thank you for this reply - I agree with everything you've said about your leg jerks. I haven't seen many other people refer to this strong, weird contraction of the thigh muscle prior to the leg kick. What medication do you take? Has anything worked?

[Guitarpickin in reply to pianoplayerPLMD]

Well, I’m sorry for our commonality but it is somewhat comforting to have found someone with a similar experience. It sounds like your thigh symptoms prior to the jerk/kick are more dramatic than mine because mine don’t seem severe. Just severely depressing. Lol. But it’s still such a weird sensation, feeling it build and watching it twitch, before it shoots down the leg initiating movement. I think of it as a storm brewing and then the lightening strike. Like it’s electrical.

I use a combination of gabapentin and indica THC. Plus back and leg stretches. When things are really bad I use a percussion massager on my calves. I have no clue why it works, but it does.

Are your symptoms manageable? What have you found that works?

[pianoplayerPLMD in reply to Guitarpickin]

Well I’ve been through the whole lot, one after another , pramipexole, gabapentin buprenorhine etc. nothing worked. ATM I’m on Clonazepam and tho I still get thigh tensing and the jerks I am generally sleeping a lot better between the walkabouts so life seems a bit more bearable! Thanks for asking and good luck.