How do you know your circadian rhythm?

[ratfancy]

This week I will be starting methadone, which may be the answer for me. If effective, it would give me a chance to change my sleeping pattern from 4am to noon to something more normal.

My question is this: How do I determine what my current circadian rhythm is? It might be that I actually am still normal, but my bedtime hours are not in sync because I have RLS symptoms.

I get tired around midnight and I would like to go to bed and sleep, but I can't because I have symptoms and my Tramadol keeps me awake. This would seem to say that I'm ignoring my circadian rhythm more than my rhythm is actually out of whack.

So which is it? Is my circadian timeclock wrong, or my sleeping hours are violating my natural rhythm?

Any comments?

[LotteM]

From what you describe, your circadian rhythm is still there. That is based on you feeling sleepy at around midnight. If the methadone works for you, your sleep pattern will -slowly or less slowly- return to your normal. I learned about this when I did my PhD with a prof who specialised in circadian rhythms and sleep . Of course, if the methadone also gives you insomnia, like the tramadol, it may/will not work out as expected.

[Hoochybaby]

hi I’m in the uk but my symptoms are very similar to yours I don’t get to sleep till about 3am most nights I take codeine and pregabalin without success and I sleep in til about 10am the next day

Funny enough when I went to warm climes a few years ago pre covid my circadian rythem reset itself and I slept fine something to do with the lighter days and warmth

Perhaps I should live elsewhere!

[Tanker1]

From what I've read, one common side effect of opioids is insomnia. If you think your circadian rhythm is out of whack, I suggest an internet search on resetting circadian rhythm and trying some of the techniques. I can't advise since I haven't tried any of them.

[AmazedAnt]

I have delayed sleep phase disorder alongside (or perhaps as a consequence of) RLS. Low dose melatonin several hours before sleep is a newer finding in helping to move your circadian rhythm earlier. Bright light first thing in the morning, as well as exercise, socializing, and then eating within 90 minutes of waking are further habits / interventions to help move the circadian rhythm earlier.

Additionally, the average person's circadian is about 24 hours & 12 minutes, so even for the normal folks adhering to the physiological habits listed above (as well as doing your best to wake at the same time) is warranted if not even necessary to help prevent the circadian slip!

If you're a "night owl", you could very well have delayed sleep phase disorder - in which case you'll typically slip half hour or more per night. On the plus side, just the top two (that I'm aware of) interventions of a mild dose of melatonin several hours before bed plus bright light soon after awakening can push that circadian earlier by at least 10-15 minutes net per night in most cases.... In the same vein, don't expect for the circadian to move rapidly earlier - it takes consistency; for those of us with substantial enough RLS issues, I'd recommend taking care of the RLS first.

Quote from one study on the issue, (DLMO is typically about 2 hours before RECENT bedtime - averaging the time that one goes to sleep over the past 5 days minus two hours has been recommended in one study as a good predictor):

"evidence has been provided that melatonin is an efficacious and safe chronobiotic drug for the treatment of DSPD in children, provided that it is administered at the correct time (3–5 h before endogenous melatonin starts to rise in dim light (DLMO)), and in the correct (minimal effective) dose"

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...