Thanks to DicCarlson for the info on the Adrenal Cocktail!

[lauraflora]

I started using it a few weeks ago and it is marvelous - just the thing I needed. There are a few variations out there, but basically it is sodium and potassium for helping the adrenals which are stressed, not functioning properly (one of the problems they cause, which is pertinent on this site, is insomnia, problems with sleeping!) One website that explains it and has a recipe (there are many others as well) is healthyhappybeautiful.com.

The reason I am posting this is because so many of us on here have had sleeping problems, myself included. It seems people are blaming RLS as the only cause, and fixing the RLS as the only solution. CONSIDER that this thinking is perhaps backward - or at least that these various problems can work back and forth at irritating each other. (Which comes from one of the books I have read.) SO, I decided some time ago to address my sleeping problem, and see what happens. Accordingly, sleep problems can be caused by many things - stress, snoring-your own or someone else's, trauma, sleep apnea, shift work, work or relationship stress, illness, continuous noise, hormonal issues, being a caregiver for someone else during the night, crisis, RLS, all sorts of things. Remember, people who don't have RLS get sleep problems. You can have more than one cause and one can set off another. As this CONTINUES it gets worse and worse, causing DISRUPTION in the body's systems. RLS is not the only cause, even in a person with RLS.

Internally, what seems to be happening is the adrenals get stressed, overstressed and do not function properly, which upsets the balance of other glands and hormones that are integral for SLEEP, your circadian rhythm and HPA get thrown off, and this goes round and round and you get locked into this pattern. You will have to look more of this up on your own. I have posted about this before, but look it up.

SO, here is an analogy one should consider, whereby just trying to fix the RLS is not necessarily going to help the sleep problems. Suppose you were driving along and got a flat tire. In getting your car off the road you drove over a pot hole, and thus damaged your muffler. Eventually you got your spare tire on. The flat tire was the initial CAUSE of how your muffler got damaged, but fixing the flat tire will NOT fix your muffler. You need to fix it itself.

Thus is my proposal that sleep problems that have gone on for some time have become a separate issue, and thus have to be addressed separately. In my own experience, as I have been working on my sleep problems (and they were BAD - not being able to get to sleep; getting the sleep-compromising second wind late in the evening; waking up suddenly, wide awake, sometimes with anxiety, for 2 or 3 hours before being able to get back to sleep; mind racing - can't turn off; having this happen 3 to 5 times a week; getting on average only about 4 or 5 hours of sleep, much of it disturbed, fretful, not refreshing deep sleep.) My latest bout of this has been for the last 6 years (caused by trauma) tho I have had a tendency for this since menopause, and before that anything particularly disruptive in my life. But never as bad or as lasting as the last 6 years.

So, once again, I will recommend anyone with sleep problems check out the above adrenal cocktail, look into Dr. Julia Ross's book The Mood Cure for a wonderful explanation of sleep in chapter 12, and here's another website, youralternativedoctor.com. There is a lot of info out about this if one knows what one is looking for.

AND I have found as I am having success with addressing my sleep problems (this takes time and some experimentation and is not a quick fix) my RLS has settled down so much, that on a scale of 1 to 10 (10 being worst) now it is only about 1/2 to 1. Whereas in the past it could be over 10 - ready to jump out the window.

Sometimes, it is a good idea to view things from the other way around.

[Madlegs1]

I sleep a lot better if I don't eat chocolate after 12pm. Every time.

Caffeine is another element I have to avoid.

[lauraflora in reply to Madlegs1]

Must be something you are sensitive to - probably the caffeine in chocolate (sad, tho.) I have very little tolerance for caffeine myself - I can drink only 2 cups of green tea in a day. It is a genetic thing, to be caffeine intolerant. Shows up in one's DNA.

[scafftag in reply to Madlegs1]

Oddly, I've been having fewer RLS problems since increasing my coffee intake over the last couple of days. May be purely coincidental, but I'm going to carry on with it until I know for sure.

[lauraflora in reply to scafftag]

Odd, but just goes to show that we are all different and have different possible triggers, etc. Who was it that said "One man's poison is another man's food." ?

[involuntarydancer]

I am very interested in the relationship between insomnia and rls and glad you made this post. I absolutely agree that it is always worth looking at things from different angles. However my experience suggests that there is a strong insomnia dimension to RLS which is present even when the RLS urge-to-move symptoms are under control.

My RLS was treated for many years with pramipexole (in ever increasing quantities). Pramipexole was very effective in treating the symptoms and, in me, it also caused pronounced tiredness so that I slept soundly every night. Since coming off pramipexole, I have had terrible problems sleeping even when my RLS urge-to-move symptoms are completely controlled. This is not connected with anxiety or racing thoughts. I usually feel perfectly calm - actually often quite happy and mellow - but I will invariably lie awake all night (no matter how tired I am) unless I take something to induce sleep.

I find it hard to accept that my insomnia is not connected with my RLS. I never had problems sleeping before I developed RLS in my mid-thirties. Dr. Buchfuhrer and other experts have accepted that there is often an insomnia dimension to RLS. I have since seen some speculation that it is thought to be attributable to over-active glutamate receptors as there is at least one study that shows unusual glutamate levels in patients with severe RLS.

It is great that you have found something that is working for your insomnia. Long may it last. I am still searching for a really effective solution for myself.

[Tazmania1 in reply to involuntarydancer]

I don't Know what you have tried. I have experienced the insomnia you are having. I take Zanax or generic alprazolam.However it is a level one control drug..but it is really helping.

[lauraflora in reply to Tazmania1]

B complex 50 mg, vitamin c 500mg, and pantothenic acid (B5) 500mg, a few times thru out the day to help support the adrenals all day. (Dr. James Wilson's book.)

5-HTP 50 or 100mg, and/or tryptophan 500 mg in late afternoon and again in the evening to help build up the serotonin that is needed to sleep (and gets worn down by not sleeping.) Then again at bed time. And if I wake up and feel the need for more. (see Dr. Julia Ross's book.)

Also Seriphos (see the Dr. Brian Foley link) 3 capsules before bed.

And I added in Dic's suggestion of the Adrenal Cocktail, twice a day, generally afternoon and then before bed. (see the Adrenal Cocktail link.)

Sounds like a lot to take? Maybe so, tho that does not bother me at all, swallowing things. It has definitely made a turn around in my sleep, and from what I read this is a temporary thing, taking so much - after awhile one can cut down. It takes a while to repair things. And may have to continue with some of this in future.

My preference is a non-drug approach. For any info on drugs, one will have to ask someone else.

[lauraflora in reply to involuntarydancer]

Oh, there is a connection between RLS and insomnia. Most certainly. I just mean that fixing the RLS may not help the insomnia enough, since it stresses the system so much that other body systems (the ones involved in sleep) become so out-of-whack that they need to be fixed themselves. So one has to fix both, not just the RLS.

I also will add that fixing the sleep problems seems to help settle down the RLS. It won't make it go away (we're programmed for it, genetically or otherwise.) But it helps by not irritating the situation. It seems that these disturbances go back and forth - one can set off the other and the other can set off the one. I know when I am sleeping well and deeply I feel hardly a flutter of RLS; consequently if my sleep is disturbed, sure enough, the nerves in my legs will start up after awhile. Which came first is hard to say, but they both need attention. At least, that is how I see it.

But perhaps you became reliant on the Pramipexole and that is your sleep problem? I have not taken any drugs for RLS (or sleep) so I don't really know the particulars about them. Maybe someone else can say about that.

[DicCarlson]

Thanks for the shout out! I'm inclining more and more to the "Inflammation Theory" of RLS. I had a non-diagnosed concussion in the Spring of 2015 - about six months later I started having sleep problems. Then in the Spring of 2016 - wham - severe RLS. I just think it was an increase in brain inflammation that led to an increased Glutamate (excitable neurotransmitter) over the GABA (relaxing neurotransmitter). Eventually it reached critical mass so to speak affecting the iron and dopamine in the brain creating the RLS. After a couple of agonizing months - first learning that I had RLS - then finding Iron supplementation (from the Johns Hopkins Neurology) as a "cure", I thought I had indeed solved the RLS problem. Alas - the insomnia remained! Now - I'm on a collection of anti inflammation supplements and glutamate or gultamate receptor agonists. Pro and Prebiotics, Turmeric, NAC, Mg, Fish Oil, Flax Oil, Vit D, Carrot Juice, and a wide collection of vitamins. The important thing is to take some of these supplements many times per day. (I take turmeric 4 times a day). And of course - this is a many months therapy - no quick fix.

[lauraflora in reply to DicCarlson]

I think there is a lot to the inflammation theory, as well. One may have RLS, but if one is more inflamed it will probably "kick up" (pardon the pun!) the severity of it all. At least that is what I think. Just like lack of sleep is an irritant to one's system and makes everything worse.

My RLS started when I was a child, and I do have a son who also has it, so I would suppose mine is hereditary. But thru out my life it has been better or even non-existent at times, or worse where it is really bad. I figure those are when things internal are out of sorts and irritate the RLS and make it worse. And yes, taking supplements thru out the day helps keep things good on a 24 hour basis, not just trying to catch up at night. By then, it's often too late.

It is interesting how the Adrenal Cocktail is also involved in Acid/Alkaline balance, and is also what is recommended for electrolytes. Acid/Alkaline balance has quite an effect on inflammation, either making it better or worse, depending upon the balance or in-balance of one's body. I noticed that a toe I broke many years ago, and one of my knees that I injured a few years ago, which have been bothering me (inflamed, no doubt) have really settled down and are mostly pain free, since I started the Adrenal Cocktail.

I think you are on to something! And I'm with you, Dic!