Urgent: For kratom users and supporters - Restless Legs Syn...

Restless Legs Syndrome

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Urgent: For kratom users and supporters

Dougg profile image
29 Replies

Greetings, all.

The US Food & Drug Administration (FDA) is asking the World Health Organization (WHO) to consider banning kratom internationally. For those of us who use this amazing plant to mitigate our RLS symptoms, such a ban would be disastrous.

Kratom supporters are trying to get as many comments to the WHO as possible in support of kratom. These can be simple testimonials of how kratom has helped you, or they can be written by someone else (your spouse/partner, kids, other relatives, friends, etc.) about how kratom has helped you or someone else. It only takes a few minutes to submit a comment here: protectkratom.org/whocommen...

Further information is available here: protectkratom.org

Please help us. Even if you don’t use kratom, please consider the long-term implications of allowing a health organization to ban natural plants.

Thank you in advance for your support.

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Dougg profile image
Dougg
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29 Replies
LotteM profile image
LotteM

Thanks for posting Dougg. I will. As my memory is bad and I am away from home,will you or someone else interested help by bumping this post weekly - if necessary?

I always wonder what is behind such actions. Most likely money. Or belief. But whom and how? I can draw quite a few hypotheses, but probably we'll never know. I hope they won't succeed.

Madlegs1 profile image
Madlegs1 in reply to LotteM

Very simple ( who is behind it?) BIG PHARMA.

Dougg profile image
Dougg in reply to Madlegs1

Madlegs1 - I would not be at all surprised. It’s my understanding that one of the leaders behind the FDA’s continued actions against kratom is a former FDA official who now sits on the Board of Directors at a major pharmaceutical company.

Dougg profile image
Dougg in reply to LotteM

Thanks, LotteM. The deadline for comments is August 9 – coming up fast – which I probably should have put in my original post.

As for what or who is behind this, like you I would love to know the full behind-the-scenes story. The science is clearly on the side of kratom, yet the FDA persists.

TheDoDahMan profile image
TheDoDahMan in reply to Dougg

I'm afraid that, for some people, it's a simple, evil desire to control others.

Joolsg profile image
Joolsg

Form completed. I'm in the UK, as are most members of this site, but want to lend my support.Kratom is illegal here in the UK but I have used it and it was brilliant for severe, refractory RLS. The only problem for me was I developed panic attacks and had to stop. I was devastated.

I hope the FDA listen to you. Good luck.

Dougg profile image
Dougg in reply to Joolsg

Thanks, Joolsg. I'm sorry to hear about the panic attacks. I don't know if this helps, but I have found that different strains of kratom produce significantly different reactions in me. Slow strains mitigate my RLS symptoms, while fast strains actually make me more anxious and jittery - similar to the experience I have if I drink too much coffee. That said, it seems that everyone's biochemistry is a bit different, and what works for one doesn't necessarily work for others. Wouldn't it be wonderful if there were a single answer!

Joolsg profile image
Joolsg in reply to Dougg

It would. So many people react differently to drugs and supplements. Magnesium makes no difference to my RLS but it completely resolves it for others. Same with Iron. Infusion of Injectafer didn't help my RLS.Interesting about the different strains of Kratom.

I can't help but think this is big pharma trying to stop something they can't make megabucks from.

The UK made it illegal in 2016 but it's still possible to get hold of from the Netherlands.

I hope you're successful.

Covenant1962 profile image
Covenant1962 in reply to Dougg

Dough, which strains do you consider to be “slow”?

Dougg profile image
Dougg in reply to Covenant1962

Hi Covenant1962.

My vendor organizes their strains into slow, moderate, and fast, and they list them in a hierarchical chart here: happyhippoherbals.com/pages...

I've found that I personally get the best mitigation effects for my RLS by staying in the slow range of that chart, with a few into the moderate range. Hope this helps!

in reply to Joolsg

Can anyone tell me what the argument is against it? I presume some harms will be cited same as for other illegal natural products? I don’t know how it works or what it does. Who makes the money from its sale/growth.I remember a few years ago there was something written about contracting a gut bug ?? Salmonella but presume that was due to unhygienic practices by illegal growers.

Might be safer to make it legal but only from reputable sources but it would then have to go through all the drug regulatory processes.

Joolsg profile image
Joolsg in reply to

I know it was made illegal in the UK because many people were using it to get 'high' as it works on opioid and dopamine receptors in a similar way to morphine. It's traditionally used to get off opioids.There was a salmonella issue in the USA and I presume that, and the abuse issue has led to the FDA concerns.

Like all legal or illegal highs, there will be people who abuse it, but if regulated, I think it's a useful tool in the fight against RLS. I know many people abuse pregabalin in the UK to get 'high' but that will always happen.....

in reply to Joolsg

Yes it’s interesting. I was somewhat amazed when I discivered that Pregabalin was a drug of abuse when I was already taking it. I discovered this while working in a charity shop which also helped about to be released prisoners join the real world & one began bragging to me about how you could obtain pregabalin ( in high doses ) ‘inside’ and the effects it had. I hope my poker face mask gave nothing away!I think the problem will be with Kratom that it will need to go through the drug approval process in order to be legalised and I am not aware of it having a known legal medicinal effect for someone to apply for a drug licence.

I think natural substances are otherwise regarded as foods which

I don’t think are regulated apart from via hygeine processes or if harm/addiction is spotted.

Some campaigning needed maybe - or have I got the info wrong?

Joolsg profile image
Joolsg in reply to

That's why Dougg is asking for testimonials, to persuade WHO and FDA that it helps many people. Scary about the FDA official behind the call for a ban being a board member of a big pharma company.....

sweetiepye profile image
sweetiepye in reply to Joolsg

Clearly a conflict of interest. I don't use Kratom and never have but I would want to have it available if needed. Presently I am doing well , but I have had RLS long enough to know you can't count on it staying the same. Who knows what I might need in the future . I want anything that helps available to me. Anyone with RLS should be paying attention to this. ( I probably didn't put this in the right spot )

Joolsg profile image
Joolsg in reply to sweetiepye

Exactly. We all know that there are limited meds that help and we're all trying to help each other because of the complete lack of research in the UK and the total lack of training & knowledge amongst doctors.I did use it ( in desperation) and it was very effective. Unfortunately I developed severe panic attacks ( I always do with opioids or similar) so had to stop. If something is so effective, it should be researched further, not banned. But, yet again, if big Pharma can't control it or profit from it, they'll see it as competition and try to ban it.

😕

Dougg profile image
Dougg in reply to

Hi Alison7. Excellent questions.

With regard to who makes money, I would say it’s farmers/growers in Asia, and importers/resellers in countries where kratom is legal. Similar to coffee or chocolate.

There was apparently a salmonella case several years ago which prompted an FDA warning. My vendor (and this is probably true for some other vendors as well) uses a third-party lab to test each batch for salmonella, pesticides, and so forth. So I see this as a quality control issue, not an issue specific to kratom.

As to the argument against kratom, for a long time it appeared that the FDA’s position was based on approximately 44 deaths over a 7-year-period reported to be associated with kratom. However, it’s my understanding that independent scientists have shown that most if not all of those deaths were a result of substances the kratom was taken with rather than the kratom itself. In a 126-page report on kratom, Pinney Associates, a consulting firm to the consumer healthcare and pharmaceutical industry, states: “A recently published, peer-reviewed article outlines well the position of the published studies: “Although death has been attributed to kratom consumption, there is no solid evidence that kratom was the sole contributor to an individual’s death” (Warner et al., 2016). We do not rule out the possibility that there have been overdose deaths involving extremely high doses of kratom; however, to date, we have been unable to document a single death in which kratom overdose can reasonably be concluded to have been “causal” in the death. By any measure this is in stark contrast with what has been documented for most recognized drugs and substances of abuse.“

The FDA claims kratom is dangerous. However, the report cited above further states, “… given the two decades during which consumption has increased to an estimated two or more million consumers in the US, in addition to far more extensive consumption in Southeast Asia, this is a substance and category of product with a remarkable safety record. It is not the profile of a serious or emerging public health problem that warrants drastic actions that would prohibit kratom consumers from continuing to lawfully purchase kratom.”

The report also states, “As demonstrated in the analysis above, kratom use has not promoted crime or violence. It does not sap the productivity of consumers or jeopardize their health. Its effects are mild and are generally reported to involve alertness and mood enhancement, comparable to the effects of coffee. The product has low intrinsic attractiveness and has not been associated in published literature with single-substance deaths.”

(Source for all above quotes: d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.n...

So given all of that, the FDA’s position makes no sense to me, unless there’s some other agenda at play. Mystery upon mystery.

My apologies for the lengthy post, but I thought these quotes from this report would provide important background. Please know that I'm not here to push kratom. I wish I didn't have to use it. But given that it helps at least some people deal with the horrible effects of RLS and other chronic pain conditions, I'd like to see availability of this plant continue. Thanks for listening.

in reply to Dougg

Hi Dougg,That is all very interesting.

I had never heard of Kratom till I joined this site.

It sounds very useful and as safe as anything, and considerably safer than a lot of licenced medicines, if not all!

All my blood pressure tabs are unsafe in higher doses, paracetamol and ibuprofen, availsble otc have risks, and as for alcohol sold in vast quantities, there are many deaths & harms each year - or probably each week. Sugar isn’t good for one either! How many people die of complications of diabetes each year.

It is all very incongruous!

Thank you for campaigning.

I so want to find something to get rid of this awful condition.

Guitarpickin profile image
Guitarpickin

Form completed.

Dougg profile image
Dougg in reply to Guitarpickin

Thank you!

Form completed. It only took a minute. Submitting the form using Dougg's link means that the contents are shared with the WHO also.

I really hope others will also complete it. Kratom is a life saver for me - I cannot use opioids because of side effects, dopamine agonists have failed (augmentation) and a2d ligands do not help my rls. I honestly do not think I could carry on if I did not have kratom to treat my rls.

Dougg profile image
Dougg in reply to involuntarydancer

Thank you!

LotteM profile image
LotteM

Form completed. We'll seeif it makes any difference. Fingers crossed it does. And "nothing ventured, nothing gained". Good work Dougg.

Dougg profile image
Dougg in reply to LotteM

Thanks!

Bumble34 profile image
Bumble34

Done.

Dougg profile image
Dougg in reply to Bumble34

Thanks, Bumble34!

bump

Dougg profile image
Dougg in reply to involuntarydancer

Hi Involuntarydancer. Forgive me being out of touch with the lingo. What does bump mean?

Wanted-sleep profile image
Wanted-sleep

Going after Kratom would be like regulating a coffee bean out of existence. They still have Covid to solve don’t they. WHO? Exactly.

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