Big meals and after 6 pm

[janland]

Hello everyone...

I'm writing this after another terrible night of restless legs.

Had for 15 yrs approximately..but severity comes and goes..

Iv noticed sugar makes it worse... and lately.. I've been eating late and perhaps too much while watching tv during lockdown.... although I'm only 8.5 stone.I have concluded that eating late in the day might have something to do with it..?

Can anyone enlighten me regarding this.?

I'm not taking medication..but recently bought new supplements like tyrosine and Avena Sativa and MSM and ashwaganda...but still it's bad nights.

I'm hoping doctor might refer me to endocrinologist or neurologist one day..I think it's connected to circadian rhythm and fluctuations of thyroid hormones and dopamine and serotonin etc .brain transmitters..

I would be very interested if anyone could shed light on the food aspect and what foods trigger..eg sugar..? Potato?

Or anything else..

Thank you..

[Hidden]

Hi.

As you probably know, there is a relationship between hypothyroidism and RLS. In which case it helps to manage your levels. If your primary care doctor isn't managing it, it might be a good idea to see an endocrinologist.

RLS is known to be a circadian phenomenon. It is a "sleep related movement disorder"

One of the RLS diagnostic criteria is that usually only occurs or is worse at night. This is thought to be due to the natural fall in dopamine levels at night.

In addition, the sleeplessness aspect of RLS is thought to be due to excess levels of glutamate.

The connection between diet and RLS appears to be inflammation. Although not a direct cause of RLS, it is a mediating factor. It also appears to have an effect on iron metabolism.

Some food elements can cause inflammation which may be "sub-clinical" meaning you may have no symptoms.

Which particular foods affect people varies between individuals. Most commonly perhaps are gluten and lactose. Foods high in oxalates may be a problem and too much carbohydrate.

Carbohydrates have dual role, it seems, in RLS. Simple carbohydrates, that is sugars, are quickly absorbed and can lead to problems failry quickly. However, in addition even more slowly absorbed carbohydrates can cause chronic inflammation.

People with other inflammatory bowel conditions are also more prone to RLS.

It may be a good idea to keep a daily food diary to see what effect particular foods have on you as an individual.

Hopefully you've had a blood test for serum ferritin. If it's below 75 then it's a good idea to start taking an oral iron supplement.

On the other hand if it's quite high, then this can indicate inflammation.

Here' some information about iron.

sciencedirect.com/science/a...

[janland in reply to Hidden]

Hi Manerva..... thank you once again for your informative message...I've made a note of things and going to make a point of talking to gp after blood results next week..

Especially re iron levels and referrral if possible.

It's interesting to read what you say about inflammation... which I think is so commonplace among the population..but we don't all know what causes in individuals...I did think there was a food intolerance test one could have but would that be no good in this case of rls..?

What you say about carbs too I've noted..

I'm going to start a food diary..I only eat whole meal carbs at present and virtually no bread... mainly oat meals..

So lactose... from milk...I do drink milk.. sometimes goats semi skimmed....or full cream unhomogenised jersey.. and grass fed local... and of course yogurts made from milk...I wonder if this is the culprit..?

I eat cows cheese as well..

Looking back on last year's blood test results... looking middle of range for thyroid.. ...marked normal on report....

and for ferritin.....

99 ug/L..

55.1.....march 2020..

109..... January 2021..

92...

So it's mostly normal for ferritin..?

Kidneys not so good..

So probably why gp can't find anything to rectify..?

Just at a loss really.

Thank you again for taking time to reply.

Best wishes

Jan

[Retro_bob]

Hi janland, reading through all the posts here you find, caffeine, alcohol and sugar seem to be the worst cuplrits but then you find others were this actively helps. caffeine being a prime example for some late at night..

The only consistant constant is that there is no consistant constant.. each to their own as they say

I can eat late and seem to be ok.

Id recently been put on Pramipexole for the first time (prior to finding this excellent site) read some of the horror stories and took myself off it . I was on lowest dose and only for 3 months, so presumed i would be ok, anyway nearly 2 weeks on im still getting over what i presme are withdrawal effects. (fizzy legs during the day)

Ive now made a very comprehensive list of what others have tried (non medically) and im trying them out. what im also doing is keeping a diary of what i eat / exercise etc and then make a note of how it effects my nights sleep

Until id seen this site i hadnt thought diet and exercise could have an impact.

Its early days on findingd but in the past ive had the rare night of near perfect sleep and im thinking it "might" have been due to a perfect combination of solutions (food / exercise etc) ... just got to find them ... you've gotta have a dream ..

also have your ferritin levels checked and dont be fobbed off by the "within normal range" comments that i got. im now attempting to extract my exact levels from the consultant which is proving somewhat of a battle ..

[janland in reply to Retro_bob]

Hi Bob.. thank you for reply..It's always good to have support from people.

Yes..it's hard to believe that diet and exercise play such a big part in restless legs...if indeed that is the case..?

I think there's thousands of people with this affliction...but how many I wonder for example in the tribes of Africa or places where people have "natural diets and plenty of exercise"?

Is it just a western disease...?

My doctor gives me blood tests from time to time...but its not always a full blood test..

Then afterwards..I request a print out of the details... which we are perfectly entitled to do..

So..yes..if ferritin is within normal range... that's that...

It's more complicated than that..it's the amount that gets across the blood brain barrier that counts I think...?

Plus..my hormone levels of thyroid is only done not in a specific way with levels of TSH T3 T4 etc which I think is the crux of the matter.....

But I'd like to be referred to a specialist.. spending lots of money on supplements.. including vit D..zinc.. MSM.. Gaba powder..b vits..folic acid.. selenium....cod liver oil..

Perhaps these are doing more harm than good...but I do have free days of them occasionally.

The restless legs usually occurs between hours of 1 am and 4 am..

Making me think it's circadian and inbalance of hormones such as thyroid..

Which in turn affects dopamine..

Next week it's blood sugar test... diabetes..?

So don't know..

I take magnesium too plus rub magnesium oil on legs..

Tried everything really... except sticking to a rigid diet...but surely..

Do we have to do this..?

Thousands of people who eat randomly don't have this dreadful affliction..

Always happy to hear from anyone with ideas and theories..

Best wishes

[Hidden in reply to Retro_bob]

I like it!

"The only consistant constant is that there is no consistant constant."

I prefer the bhuddist version, "The only constant is change".

😃

[Madlegs1]

RLS is not fair. There is NO constant.

It affects every sufferer in different ways and for different triggers.

No one is the same.

That is why we each have to do our own research to find our own individual setup.

It is great to have this forum to share experiences and to learn from others, as to what may or may not work.

Coffee-trigger for some, not for others.

Processed foods ( msg, oxidents, colourings, sulphates/ ites, and so on) simply not an issue up till recently for the undeveloped world.

Iron-- not an issue for 50% of sufferers.

So--- keep on trying to seek that "golden ticket"

[Joolsg]

How long is a piece of string? This disease does follow circadian rhythms & most people experience RLS between midnight & 5 am but everyone is different.

Same with diet & supplements.

I avoided coffee until reading on here that it helped some people’s RLS. I tried it and it really helps me.

Same with sugar- it actually helps.

I have tried every recommended diet for extended periods ( 12 months) & nothing worked. The keto diet sent my legs crazy.

Magnesium supplements & massage oils do nothing & I’ve had an IV iron infusion of Injectafer which raised ferritin to 785 & still no improvement.

So - you have to work out what helps you.

It really is trial & error.

Start with the simplest,obvious things & see if they help.

[janland in reply to Joolsg]

Thank you for reply....yes it's trial and error..but surely someone has the answer..?

[involuntarydancer]

Just posting because of what you say about eating before bedtime. I suspect that going to bed fasting (ie not having eaten for at least 4 hours and then only lightly) is beneficial for me and being too full in bed seems to aggravate the legs. I also suspect that a ‘clean’ diet helps me.

Apart from iron, none of the numerous supplements I have tried have had any impact on my legs.

I am one who finds coffee helpful.

Even though we’re all different, I find it really helpful reading what helps others - and what doesn’t.

[silkyreg in reply to involuntarydancer]

I agree totally! I suffered tremendously of RLS until I started intermittend fasting. I stop eating at 8:00 p.m. till 12:00 the next day and this helps me a lot. As soon as I break my intermittend fasting routine my RLS gets worse

[Hidden in reply to silkyreg]

Oh wow, that's a big deal discovery you made there. 12 hour fast might even be enough to quell the RLS. Don't mess with your success however.

[Felicity21 in reply to silkyreg]

Hi there, I fast from 10 pm till 1 pm next day when I have my breakfast late. This, I think, has been helping me too.

[janland in reply to involuntarydancer]

I am now trying to keep a food diary..no junk food and less before bedtime etc..First night of new regime last night...so far no difference.... still a bad night..!

[Bridall]

Hi I have suffered on and off for over 15 years. Varying degrees of sleepless night but during lockdown I have started taking vitamin c, a multivitamin and vit D3. My restless legs is so much better, so I don’t know if these have made any difference but maybe worth a try. I still get mild restless legs sometimes and then I will do an exercise off the calm website called calm body. Hope this helps. Lots of prescription tablets made it worse so try anything natural. X

[janland in reply to Bridall]

Hi..yes..I eat lots of fruit.. and take vit D and other supplements.. still bad legs..I'm thinking perhaps underlying cause such as blood sugar imbalance or allergic or intolerance to different foods..?

It's a minefield..

[Felicity21]

Hi Janland. The first trigger I noticed was sweetened orange drink. Over the years I have added to that apples, pears, banana’s, strawberries, grapes, raisins, peaches and apricots, margarine, mayonnaise, walnuts, onions and garlic and any foods containing additives like colours, sweeteners, preservatives, and soya lecithin. I also found Sulphites in wine could be a trigger, but I recently discovered Sulfree (one drop in your wine) helps. I take turmeric and you could try magnesium and iron supplements. Dairy is fine with me.

I recently started fasting between 10 pm and 1 pm when I have my breakfast late.

You could try all that before going on to medication. Good luck.

[janland in reply to Felicity21]

Hello.... very interesting about all the foods that affect your restless legs..My question is... these foods are quite natural and harmless...?

I've been eating mostly wholefoods all my life...how can a person suddenly become intolerant to these natural foods if we've been eating them for years..?

I mean... what changed..?

Hundreds of people eat the normal natural everyday foods that you've listed...but no one I know has restless legs after eating them...

It really narrows it down what one can eat...

I think artificial sugar is a culprit and anything processed ...but normal food...?

Unless we should stick to "local" food and vegs that are in season perhaps and not imported from hot countries... which naturally is alien to our bodies..?

Diabetes.. hypothyroidism.. hormone or neurotransmitters inbalance could be causes...

I'm glad that your regime is helping you..

I too don't usually have breakfast till nearly lunchtime..

I have heard soy products could aggravate..?

For me...rls and period limb movement has just got really bad... and really don't know why..

Blood tests indicate most levels are normal.. having blood sugar rest next week...

Best wishes

[Ranjits]

Any sugar including potatoes sweet pats toe make it worse Eating dinner late I am so scarred that I have my dinner at 5 pm

[janland in reply to Ranjits]

Yes..I'm feeling like that now.. having dinner earlier and earlier..Perhaps main meal of days should be breakfast biggest... lunch medium and dinner small...?

Or eating little and often..6 small meals..

Surely natural sugars wouldn't affect our brain transmitters..?

I'm at a loss what to do..

[juweave]

Hi Janland,

I've definitely noticed the same as you. Eating late and eating too much makes my restless legs worse.

I know I need to avoid alcohol, sugar and simple carbs such as potatoes, white rice, pasta and bread, not to mention sweets, cakes and puddings. It's really difficult as I love all those things! I haven't noticed other foods making much of a difference yet. Perhaps when I've got the carbs under better control I'll be able to tell. That's my hope anyway.

At present, I'm weaning myself off pramipexole, which is tough. Good carb control is helping me get through it.

Good luck.

[involuntarydancer in reply to juweave]

I love all those things too! I WISH I didn't. I do seem to feel a lot better generally - more healthy and 'lighter' - when I cut down on them, even apart from suspected improvement in rls. Unfortunately, that's not always a sufficient incentive ...

[Eryl in reply to juweave]

Don't forget that fruit also contains sugar though it's effect is mitigated somewhat by the fibre content, but fruit juice can definitely be a problem as well as bread, especially white bread.

[dido241]

I'm an over 50 year RLS sufferer. For the first 30 or so years it would come in waves but since the menopause it happens most evenings. Also since the menopause I've been diagnosed with Hashimoto's Thyroiditis, Fibromyalgia, osteoarthritis and am now being tested for other forms of inflammatory arthritis. Levothyroxine does nothing for me symptomwise so I cut my dose from 100mcg to 75mcg to 50mcg over the years because I was suffering with missed/ irregular heartbeats. Also in that time I have developed insomnia (even when my legs aren't driving me crazy with RLS). Over the last 11 years I have tried all kinds of 'natural' remedies, exercises, diets, etc none of which had a lasting effect on either the insomnia or the RLS. Last year I read that eating two dates and 8 almonds each day helped some people with insomnia; I did find this helpful until my stress levels went sky high due to numerous family health issues which I had to manage on top of my work. In October I was desperate for sleep and decided to purchase Swanson Full Spectrum Rhodiola Holy Basil Valerian Stress Complex and began taking it in November (one tablet about an hour before bed). Within a couple of days I noticed that, not only was my insomnia much improved (getting off to sleep within 10 minutes and staying asleep for up to 6 hours) and, whilst the RLS didn't go away completely, it was less frequent and (mostly) less severe (unless I ate chocolate, sweets, etc). However, a word of caution, over my lifetime I have had intermittent (a few times a year) stomach cramps which were easily relieved by Gaviscon Original (aniseed) or ice cold milk but since all the daily stress the cramps have been more frequent and the Gaviscon has been less effective until it stopped working completely a few weeks ago. I now have a suspected ulcer and was prescribed Omeprazole but, instead of getting better I got worse until my daughter looked up the Swanson Stress Complex ingredients and found that they can cause stomach upset; I stopped taking the Stress Complex and my stomach pain subsided (but my insomnia and RLS got worse as each day passed) so, just in case anyone decides to try it be aware that it could cause gastrointestinal upset - especially if you have pre-existing problems.

[DicCarlson]

Sleep 2 hours, maybe 3 or even 4 then wake with a resounding "I'm awake" wired feeling. Lay there and think what did I eat, what supplement did I forget or take? Yet, every night I still think this is the night I get a full nights sleep and I'll wake up refreshed.

[Hidden in reply to DicCarlson]

Hi Dic, have you considered the possibility that it is a mind f--k? Pardon my French. That is what I call it when I can't fall asleep. I go through periods of it. If it happens one night I know for sure it will happen the next because I am worrying about it during the day. Sleep becomes like a cat chasing its tail. NOT falling asleep becomes what psychiatrists call "an intrusive thought." If you wake-up and your first thought is I won't be able to get back to sleep it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Michael Jackson was treated by his personal physician for a sleep disorder when all he really had was an anxiety disorder.

[DicCarlson in reply to Hidden]

Oh yeah - and it is related to anxiety. But waking up "normally" is accompanied by a feeling of drowsiness. The feeling I get is "oh, it must be time to get up, because I'm SO awake". Not so, it's only 3AM!

[dklohrey]

Have had RLS for about 30 years. I too have found that sugar can trigger RLS. I have also found that eating large meals or any food in the evening will lead to more severe RLS symptoms. So, if you can, a light meal for dinner and no snacks afterwards and you should find your RLS symptoms less severe, at least that has been my experience.

[janland in reply to dklohrey]

Hello.. thank you for reply..Yes...I think this is what I've been doing lately.. especially during lockdowns... and long dark evenings..

Eating late and snacking while watching tv..

So last few days have been more careful to eat earlier and lighter...

I never used to have to worry like this about timing meals...or the amount..

It's just this winter that the rls has been exceptionally bad... probably it's because getting older too..

Best wishes

[mickeyrose]

I find that I wake up to use the toilet around 2.30am then my RLS decides to start, I get up and make a cup of ovaltine, it really helps me get back to sleep. I currently take 0.50mg of ropinirole which pretty much keeps things at bay unless I am having a chrohns flare up, then my legs and arms go crazy.

[janland in reply to mickeyrose]

Thank you for reply..I'm still not wanting to use drugs because of side effects...so..

I would like to find the root cause..

I'm taking supplements.. and read somewhere that a person takes pickle juice..(from dills or gherkins) which I might try next..

I find it helpful to massage legs.. especially calves just before bedtime... and I'm taking rhodiola before bed too..plus ashwaganda..

Rls has calmed down a bit lately..but I also have plm.. period limb movement...in other words.. like electric shocks that wake me up and keep me awake..

I just have come to accept broken nights..not sure if a full bladder triggers it either...

Hope you continue to get relief from your meds.

Best wishes