Taurine

[Sarasota16]

I am seeing a naturopath for my RLS and insomnia. I was prescribed Taurine, 1000 mg, and after two weeks am sleeping 7 hours a night. Hope it keeps working, as it has been years since I had this much sleep a night.

[Hidden]

I'm a Libra myself

Delighted something is working for you, long may it last.

Why the Taurine?

[Sarasota16 in reply to Hidden]

I took what was prescribed. My RLS is milder. I was prescribed supplements. As long as I do not have sugar I have had nights without RLS. My naturopath studies German functional medicine.

[Hidden]

As ever, if it works for you and does no harm then do it.

I read that Taurine is a "non essential" amino acid and the body can manufacture it's own given sufficient protein in the diet.

I also read that it can be used for "lack of sleep", i.e. usually in conjunction with caffeine to counteract sleepiness caused by lack of sleep.

I'm not sure then, how a stimulant can help you sleep.

Maybe you have misunderstood the naturopaths reason for prescribing it.

[Sarasota16 in reply to Hidden]

He definitely prescribed it for sleep.

[Hidden in reply to Sarasota16]

As I say, if it works for you, then do it.

The little evidence I can find on it says it can help combat sleepiness, (along with caffeine) which suggests it wakes you up. Your naturopath may have some evidence that says the opposite.

[Parminter in reply to Hidden]

Here are some papers for you to peruse, Manerva.

All very interesting. It would appear that Taurine is anything but non-essential. At the very least it appears brain-protective, and particularly DA receptor protective, which, God knows, we need.

nature.com/articles/s41419-...

inhumanexperiment.blogspot....

Who knew - certainly not our doctors.

If you google 'taurine and dopamine you will find a lot more .......

[Hidden in reply to Parminter]

Thanks, I 'll look at these. I can be persuaded by good evidence.

Taurine is NOT an "essential" amino acid in respect of it's not one of the 9 amino acids which CANNOT be synthesised in the body. The 9 "essential" amino acids MUST be present in the diet.

Taurine does appear to be something that is "necessary" to sustain life, so might be better called "vital", but it CAN be synthesised in the body so is not essential in the diet.

Quick comments

article one - suggests that taurine can protect the brain from the dopaminergic neurodgeneration found in Parkinson's disease. (No comment on the paraquat poisoning). Although, dopaminergic dysfunction is associated with RLS, there is no conclusive evidence that RLS is a degenerative condition, at least 12 years ago!

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/175...

There is limited evidence of a causal connection between RLS and PD at least in 2018

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

I couldn't access the second article, link didn't work (I hope "inhuman experiment didn't meant that paraquat was used on humans!)

CONCLUSION - RLS may or may not cause PD (Oh sh**!)

Tons of evidence on the benefits of sufficient taurine for various issues including PD. Nothing specific for RLS.

My hippocampal aging means that my memory of the formal logic I learned in the early 1970's partly now escapes me, but I do remember something about partial premises do not support absolute conclusions.

i.e. some things work for some people with RLS, but not all things work for all people.

[Parminter in reply to Hidden]

Ooh , it helps the ageing hippocampus. That I certainly need. My hippocampus has gone on strike.

nootropicsexpert.com/taurine/

[Hidden in reply to Parminter]

I can't remember what Hippocampus means.

[Parminter in reply to Hidden]

What?

[Parminter in reply to Hidden]

Ah, it's a very large African animal under an awning. I only know that because I live in Africa.

[Hidden in reply to Parminter]

I see, I was wondering, there's a few words starting in "hippo"

Hippodrone a large flying animal with four propellers

Hippocrates - a man named because of his obsession with large wooden boxes

Hippocratic oath - a swear word uttered by the same man when a box fell on him.

Hippopotamus - I believe this is an abbreviation of "Hippo pot of mustard", a big jar of condiment.

I hear it can be dangerous living in Africa.

theguardian.com/lifeandstyl...

[Parminter in reply to Hidden]

Very dangerous indeed. Hippos around every corner, waiting to jump if you stand on the lines.....

I'm not sure it was Hippocrates unless he lived next with Diogenes.

[Parminter in reply to Hidden]

Well done, by the way. You are clearly a notable hippo-connoisseur.

[Casi in reply to Parminter]

Thank heavens you/we haven’t lost our sense of humour!!!

[147833 in reply to Hidden]

Taurine is not a stimulant.

They add it to Red Bull type energy drinks to help stop the side effects from massive amounts of caffeine

[WideBody in reply to Hidden]

Do you still believe there in nothing to Taurine? After reading a couple dozen articles and studies. I have no choice but to try. We shall see.

[Hidden in reply to WideBody]

By all means, give it a try.

The thing about taurine is, as I wrote before, it is NOT an essential amino acid, although it's known as "semi-essential". There are only nine essential acids. However if you do take it, it will be absorbed into the blood stream.

Taurine can be manufactured, e.g. in the brain, from the nine essential acids.

Taurine biosynthesis in the hippocampus and cerebellum (parts of the brain) occurs through the conversion of the amino acid cysteine by the sulfinic acid decarboxylase enzyme

The next factor is that to have any effect of the nervous system a taurine supplement has to get into the central nervous system (CNS) from the blood. To do this it has to cross the Blood Brain Barrier (BBB).

Taurine is unable to cross the BBB!

To quote a study

"CNS supplementation of taurine is almost null."

Taurine deficit, if you have one, is known to play a part in CNS degenerative diseases. So it is important to correct any deficit if this is detected. However, for the above reason, taking an oral taurine supplement would appear to be pointless.

There is however, at least one study that has looked at the possibility of developing "taurine derivative" drugs which may have a taurine effect, but can cross the BBB. This would be neuroprotective.

I'm not aware that any such drugs have yet been developed.

Despite this, it would be good if you went and tried it if you wish.

But if you do try it, please come back in six months and let us know.

best wishes

[WideBody in reply to Hidden]

Thanks Manerva, I appreciate your time and explanation. I don’t have a lot of good options right now. I thought I would give it a try, no protein shakes and Taurine for a month.

As always I will report back, win or lose. BTW, I got an appointment with a Neurologist who specializes in RLS, and movement disorders, her bio looks very promising. Sadly, it’s July 19th.

[Hidden in reply to WideBody]

Sad, it does take a while to get to see a neurologist. I hope it goes well.

[ejaji in reply to WideBody]

Did you try the taurine for sleep? Did it work for you? If so, pls let me know which brand u took.

[WideBody in reply to ejaji]

It's not a cure, it takes awhile to work. I am still taking it. I just bought the cheapest Taurine I could find.

[DicCarlson]

The neurotransmitters Glutamate (excitable - keeps you awake) and GABA (relaxing) are significant players in sleep regulation. "Taurine is a sulfur containing amino acid structurally similar to the neurotransmitters glycine and GABA (Gamma aminobutyric acid). It is the most abundant free amino acid in retina and the second most abundant free amino acid in the central brain after glutamate" ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

I take a 1/2 dose of ibuprofen when I wake in the night. It blocks glutamate. I have recently also started CoQ10 and Ginko at night both supposedly block glutamate and promote GABA.

More on Taurine by Cynthia Perkins...

"The amino acid taurine increases the GAD enzyme and consequently GABA levels. Additionally, taurine doubles as an inhibitory neurotransmitter and can bind directly to GABA receptors, so it can help provide balance naturally in that manner as well."

holistichelp.net/blog/how-t...

[Hidden in reply to DicCarlson]

An interesting read, is this evidence for the use of Taurine to promote sleep?

I note

GABA is inhibitory (calming), Glutamate is excitatory.

GABA and Glutamate Balance - When GABA is low, glutamate is high and vice versa. So in order to increase (GABA), it’s not simply a matter of bringing it up, you must also focus on reducing the excess glutamate.

So GABA - up, Glutamate - down.

The amino acid taurine increases the GAD enzyme and consequently GABA levels. Additionally, taurine doubles as an inhibitory neurotransmitter and can bind directly to GABA receptors,

If taurine is deficient, then the GAD enzyme may be low as well, therefore, supplementing with taurine can be used to manage the GABA and glutamate balance

However, there are a couple of gene mutations that can result in negative effects from taurine supplementation

Taurine supplementation may increase glutamate in some people.

The rest got so complicated that I lost the will to carry on.

This seems to be another example, see the post on Potassium Citrate, where because some people with a specific deficiency might find relief from RLS from a supplement, that everybody with RLS will irrespective of any deficit will benefit. It appears that for some, taurine might do more harm than good.

I suppose it is a matter of personal preference, but I'm not going to start eating meat again after 45 years and I find the statement that most people don't eat enough fat difficult to swallow!

It's a shame that everybody can't be genetically tested at birth and given magic gene changing pills as appropriate.

To sleep (if you can), perchance to dream.

[DicCarlson in reply to Hidden]

The Glutamate excess is the reason that I could get 2-3 hours of sleep and of course be tired but not sleepy all day. The ibuprofen connection is interesting. Before I had RLS in June of 2016 - I had sleep issues the Fall of 2015 into 2016 (and still have BTW), and discovered that taking an ibuprofen initiated a back to sleep advantage. The sleep issues perplexed me - I covered my electric meter, turned off wifi at night - no help.

[147833 in reply to Hidden]

Taurine reduces glutamate

[Hidden]

Caffeine has opposite effects where RLS is concerned- for some it's a stimulant, for some it helps RLS in the night. So taurine provides balance. Certainly think it's worth a shot! Swanson's sells quite a few different brands online, all pretty reasonable. And it's interesting that naturopathy has an approach here.

[Sarasota16 in reply to Hidden]

I take one capsule in the morning and one at bedtime.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

Caffeine does help some people it's true and no harm in giving it a shot. Apparently there are certain popular energy drinks that have caffeine and taurine in them, unfortunately also sugar.

[Shumbah]

Wow that’s incredible well done 🙂

My son has gone from 2hr to 7 hr sleep taking Kalms lavender 1 day cap and 1 night cap although still wakes up in pain

Keep sleeping 😴

[Gmc54]

I’ve tried taking some taurine, I only took 500mg and it does seem to be helping. Difficult to say at this early stage as sometimes I do get a couple of nights remission, but, fingers crossed the past two nights I have slept well. I have read that it helps it to work better if taken with zinc so might try that as well. Thanks Sarasota16.

[Sarasota16 in reply to Gmc54]

I take it twice a day. Hope it keeps working for you.

[AllisonSi]

Taurine works for me within the hour!

[WideBody]

Is it still working and do you still take Taurine? Would you still recommend it? How did it help? Thanks!