Full bladder trigger

[marsha2306]

When my bladder is full my RLS goes into full crazy mode. Happens even when I’m not even aware my bladder is full. Daytime when sitting and all night long. Anyone else?

[Hidden]

Yup, I get that too, only within the past couple of years. There are a couple of others on here experience it too.

I wonder if the vagus nerve is involved in both?

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

NO NOT the vagus nerve, which is a cranial nerve, i.e. comes directly from the cranium without going through the spinal chord.

The sensory nerves from the bladder enter the spinal chord lower down at various levels, including the lower thoraic and upper lumbar levels. There are stretch receptors in the bladder wall that send signals to the spinal chord. When signals reach a certain level there is a simple reflex which causes stimulation of various motor nerves which cause the bladder to contract and the sphincter(s) to relax. Some of the motor nerves arise from the lumber and sacral regions of the spinal chord.

Luckily, the reflex can be inhibited by signals descending the spinal chord from the brain.

Since I read recently, can't remember where, that RLS is associated with oversensitivity of motor nerves in the spinal chord, not just the brain then it's possible I guess, that signals from the bladder can stimulate already oversensitive motor nerves going to the legs from similar levels of the spinal chord (lumbar).

If only all problems could be solved by taking a pee!

[Franklin123 in reply to Hidden]

Hi - I believe the vagus does touch on the bladder/bowel. The left vagus maybe the cause of irritation, and loss of bladder control. However, I too have found that my bladder is connected to the start of my rls synptoms especially when sitting.

[Hidden in reply to Franklin123]

It's clear that the vagus nerve does innervate the intestines. I can't find any mention of it in relation to the bladder. That doesn't necessarily mean it isn't related, it just means I haven't found a mention.

However, there are clearly three other nerves that are definitely involved with the bladder which would suggest a relationship between RLS symptoms and a full bladder.

The involvement of the vagus nerve with the intestines does suggest a possible relationship between RLS and bowel motion.

[involuntarydancer]

Absolutely - me too. The upside is that emptying the bladder sometimes results in improved symptoms (also sometimes bowells - apologies if tmi).

[marsha2306 in reply to involuntarydancer]

If only I didn’t have to urinate 2-3 times a night!

[Hidden in reply to marsha2306]

It might not help but you might be able to reduce "nocturia" (peeing in the night) if you limit your fluid intake in the evening and avoid anything that has a "diuretic" effect, ( stimulates your kidneys to form more urine)., e.g. caffeine and alcohol.

Sorry for saying it if you already do that.

[Oscarsaurus in reply to Hidden]

I have an irritable bladder and do not drink caffeine or alcohol and also limit my fluid intake a couple of hours before bed but still i wake

[Hidden in reply to Oscarsaurus]

Sorry to hear that. My suggestions are sensible enough, worth trying and appropriate for most people including people suffering irritable bladder If you have an irritable bladder then obviously it's a different matter, it won't be as effective.

I imagine that you have had investigations for that e.g. urodynamics and possibly medication which should help.

I hope you've also had a PSA test.

[marsha2306 in reply to Hidden]

First of all, I am female so I’m not quite sure a PSA test would be in order! I have had urine tests and blood work and there’s no evidence of a medical issue. I am currently taking meds to decrease frequency and they help a little but not completely.

[Hidden in reply to marsha2306]

Marsha, I did guess is a woman's name and I assumed you were female. If you look at my post you will see it is a reply to Oscarsaurus.

On this site if you look at a particular comment someone has posted You can tell who someone is responding to because next to the name of the poster it says "in reply to". In my post about PSA you will see it says "Manerva in reply to Oscarsaurus".

I assumed that Oscar is a man's name.

The comments about urodynamics etc are relevant to Oscar because he said "I have an irritable bladder". They were not intended for you.

My comment to you ( Manerva in reply to Marsha2306) about limiting fluid intake, alcohol and caffeine are of course logical as you say. Not everyone makes the connection however, so my statement was intended to be helpful. You will note that I did say "Sorry for saying it if you already do that."

I hope this clears up any misunderstanding.

[marsha2306 in reply to Hidden]

it does. thanks

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

You can tell who someone is responding to because next to the name of the poster it says "in reply to". In my post about PSA you will see it says "Manerva in reply to Oscarsaurus".

I have been posting here for years and getting confused as to who is talking to who (or is that whom is talking to whom). Thank you very much for that - I can only hope I remember it

Back on subject.

I am up a good 4 -5 times to pee most nights I don't limit my fluid intake much any more as I have never noticed much difference, (although I try to limit my last cuppa to 9ish pm). I haven't an irritable bladder more a contrary one - I can drink mugs of coffee and might not have to pee for ages, at other times I might pee 3 times in 1 hour, (and god help me if I go to mass or anywhere away from a loo!

I've spoken with a urologist in a passing context and she had said 9 times in a day was likely too much, (in reference to another person), I had gone 6 times that day and it hadn't hit 12. Never found out why I pee so much I have tried no coffee, only water, no drinking after 6 and still I get urges to go and may only do a little but still I need to do that and that little can help the RLS.

I am sure the vagus nerve has some role in RLS as it is involved in urination, defecation and orgasm, (all three at once if that is your bag!!!), ALL OF WHICH can ease the symptoms of RLS.

I've only the title of this but it implicates the Vagus nerve in RLS:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/174...

although it may be that it helps depression which helps RLS and is not a direct force. I hope to find the full text to get a read at it which if anyone has access I'd appreciate a look.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

Grief! It's an impressive title vagus nerve. RLS, major depression.

Sorry though, vagus nerve stimulates heart, lungs and digestive tract

Nerves going to the bladder are Hypogastric, Pelvic and Pudendal.

Thanks for the link, I shall have to try and get the full article,

Intriguing.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

These dudes - I think - argue there may be some involvement of the vagus nerve in urination:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/236...

along with it effecting the digestive system it must effect bowel movements - faster digestion and faster pooing

Here they mention the vagus nerve and female orgasm:

bbc.com/future/story/201506...

For me urination, defecation and orgasm all bring relief from RLS. There are studies that show vagal nerve interaction in these occurrences/bodily functions and its activation releases Acetylcholine which effects muscle movement.

I am foggy brained at the minute, ( a lovely gift from M.E.), but from what I am reading there may besome interactions that may warrant further investigation

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

Nice articles thanks. I did read earlier that orgasms relieve RLS symptoms by increasing dopamine levels which concurs with the second article. It seems women have the advantage there.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

Have found some articles on vagus nerve stimulation for treating such things as epilepsy and Parkinsons.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

A somewhat belated comment, but was re-reading this thread to check something in relation to znother more recent thread.

Noting you comment about peeing so much, day and night prompted me to wonder if you have actually consulted a urologist about this, or at least seen some doctor.

Apologies if you've already checked this out, but if you experience the following, these are symptoms of an enlarged prostate gland.

Needing to pee many times a day, (frequency)

Having to pee several times during the night (nocturia)

Feeling the need to pee quite strongly (urgency)

Difficulty starting (hesitancy).

I believe that in most cases where this happens it's due to Benign Prostatic Hyperplasia (BPH) which is treatable. If you're over 60, it would be recommended however to have a PSA test to eliminate Prostate Cancer.

In fact, even if you're over 60 and don't have an enlarged prostate, it's still a good idea to have a PSA test.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

Had numerous clear PSA tests along with a battery of other bloods. Had this now 20+ years at least up all night running, frequency through day, difficulty starting, urge to go, you name it! I've put it down to the drugs I have been on, (Jesus but I have been on one nasty concoction or other over the past few decades), with the difficulties waxing and waning at their own pleasure.

It's a pain in the...bladder...well no pain but its a pain! I've never got it looked at because of the above mentioned reason and the belief.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

Glad to hear the PSA is OK. It sounds as if you might benefit from some urological investigations e.g. urodynamics and cystoscopy. Both are uncomfortable but I didn't find them painful, just embarassing, (the urologist was female). These should be able to find the cause of your symptoms.

I had the exact opposite to you, I only peed about 3 times day and could keep up to 1700 mls in my bladder without any sense of urgency. It caused chronic prostatitis however.

I had an alpha blocker which controlled symptoms for 8 years and didn't seem to exacerbate my RLS.

[marsha2306 in reply to Hidden]

Looking back over my emails that notify me that there are replies, my emails say that “so and so” is replying to you on (title of post.) That’s why I replied to you thinking your reply was for me. I’ll look at the posts carefully instead of the emails next time.

[Hidden in reply to marsha2306]

No problem. I hope you're finding the site helpful otherwise.

[marsha2306 in reply to Oscarsaurus]

Me too; nothing after 6 pm

[marsha2306 in reply to Hidden]

Of course I limit my intake and caffeine. That’s the most logical thing to do.

[Bugsycat]

Me also and when I need a number two. Relief after is very welcome.

[CindyPatt]

It definitely! Especially if I’m riding in the car and can’t stop to go!! My legs go crazy!!

[marsha2306]

My troubles started recently. I was waking up every 45 minutes to an hour with it. Never before had I had to go to the bathroom while asleep. My doc gave me meds to take for that and even after almost 2 weeks, I’m still waking up at least 2 times. My meds are done in a few days and I’m worried if it will come back....

[Hidden in reply to marsha2306]

If when you got up to use the loo you say had a drink, smoke, slice of toast, whatever you may have inadvertently taught your body to get up at night for those things,.

[marsha2306 in reply to Hidden]

Nope...never had this issue til about 4 weeks ago. I have always slept “like a baby.” When I do have to get up to go to the bathroom, I just go & come right back to bed (and hopefully sleep.)

[marsha2306]

I was driving home from the beach 2 yrs ago (3 hour drive) and had to stop and walk laps around a convenience store.

[marsha2306]

I don’t even drink anything after 6 pm!

[Matrix]

Marsha I get that and I also get severe wrist pain so bad I have too hold my wrists as I’m peeing ..

[marsha2306 in reply to Matrix]

Wow, that’s pretty bad 😒

[Matrix]

It is so painful. The dr doesn’t know what’s causing it , I do have fibromyalgia and that’s all nerve pain etc. Hope the legs stop for all of us x

[Hidden]

Hi bodziu - can you remember the name of those pills?

[involuntarydancer in reply to Hidden]

Hi Raffs, I'm not sure if it was Bodziu, but someone posted a good while ago that when they were taking mirabegron (a bladder control drug) they noticed they had no or reduced rls.

[Legsandmore]

Yes l have noticed this too. It has only been recent in terms of my RLS, which l have had since childhood.

I had noticed a mild onset of symptoms just prior to needing the loo. So yesterday l decided to hold on, so to speak, until l was bursting to go. By which time my legs were really irritated, but in addition to this l noticed a distinct burning/tingling sensation in my feet, which eased off once l had been to the loo.

It does seem as though a full bladder is effecting something and causing my RLS to kick in and neuropathy in my feet. It’s good to know others have this too.

[Pippins2]

Seems i am in the minority of those who replied because in nearly 40 years of RLS i dont get an increase in symptoms with a full bladder .Just a little add on - getting up during the night to urinate ( not just once that is normal , i am referring to 3 or more times ) is listed as a classic symptom of sleep apnea .

I have apnea and again was a symptom i dont have as i very , very rarely need to go to the loo during the night x

[Enery]

Yes me to sometimes don't notice I need to go then jumpy legs and body points me in the direction

[marsha2306 in reply to Enery]

Exactly!