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Restless Legs Syndrome
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Kratom and Salmonella. Has anyone experienced this?

I have been pretty much on deaths door with Salmonella and just got out of hospital yesterday. Never been so sick in my life. Trying to figure out where I may have gotten this as I didn't eat anything different than my usual diet and no one else in my family was sick so I began to wonder if it was the Kratom which I had begun taking. I happened to google it and found tons of cases of salmonella reported from Kratom. I have no real proof just a feeling (so Kratom company I'm not trying to stir up any trouble here) just wondering if anyone else had this issue. There again this dreaded disorder has me so desperate to find relief that I would even contemplate taking something like Kratom. Normally I would never try such a product

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I've tried several different types of Kratom from 3 different sellers and never had any problem. My regular supplier, (before the change of laws) would have sent a report into what was in the package and that it was tested for all problems.

It seems very VERY strange that in a country controlled so tightly by the financial elites that a low cost alternative to some of the drug companies big sellers should cause problems there and from my admittedly brief look no where else! The facts don't really stack up either:

forbes.com/sites/davidkroll...

If it was so prevalent surely this page would have it considering they have turtles on it:

foodsafety.gov/poisoning/ca...

It seems strange that it is only the US and considering what it does to its citizens I would not be at all surprised if it was deliberately tainted so the people in power can continue to make more money from the misery of opioid abuse.

drugabuse.gov/related-topic...

Mind you if you think Kratom can cause problems look at peanut butter:

scientificamerican.com/arti...

I've looked at some of the places claimed to have spread Salmonella - one of the places doesn't even sell it and am awaiting a reply to an email to another. I have also looked for Salmonella elsewhere linked to Kratom and can't find it - the only UK reference its to the U.S. outbreak, so go figure.

Its all very strange indeed, thanks for highlighting it to me. I hope if you do buy you get from a trusted site that has no history of illness - and try and get one away from the U.S. and less likely to be adulterated in my humble opinion!

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I will never touch Kratom again. It really did not help me much at all.

That's a pity. Hope you find relief elsewhere

And just to repeat. I can not prove it was the Kratom I am just curious if anyone else has had any issues like this. I was astounded to read of all the thousands and thousands of cases where Kratom was in fact the culprit of salmonella outbreak. I merely wanted to make people on here aware of the possible, however slight, danger.

Are you sure Kratom was definitely the culprit and not just 'linked' to it?

I'd be interested to hear of any non American users that have gotten Salmonella from Kratom.

Like I said, I don't know for sure and don't want to point any fingers just merely asking other Kratom users if they had any issues. Reading the numerous reports when I googled "Kratom and salmonella" I merely started to wonder, if that was even a remote possibility. I am at a total loss of where else I could have possibly picked up salmonella. Im out of the hospital but still not well. Like I said before, never been this sick in all my life. There were hundreds of cases and several deaths so it is definitely something to bring to peoples attention that are ordering this stuff online.

Yeah it is very strange and if you have any left it might be worth seeing if the CDC is accepting samples for testing.

Its worrying considering how drugs open to us are being reduced and removed under the guise of abuse prevention yet when that didn't work for Kratom in the US there appeared a Salmonella outbreak, (although from my reading in the same period there was even more people getting it from Chicken Salad!

I didn't see where there were deaths linked to that and didn't read of them on drug sites so would appreciate a link, especially as I recommend Kratom regularly, please and thanks.

If you google Kratom and salmonella outbreak about 10 different articles come up. That might be easier than me sending all those links. In one of the articles I read that red borneo was one of the brands it affected. That's the one I was taking.

I am just posting all this info to make other Kratom users on this site aware. I certainly was not aware of this problem until this horrendous sickness hit me. Kratom was the only thing I took that was different from any foods I was eating and no one else in my family was sick so I thought I would do a little of my own research. That's when I found all the articles on google about the salmonella outbreaks linked to Kratom. Not bashing the company selling the stuff just feel I need to make other Kratom users on this site aware.

Really if I had read any posts about the salmonella linked to Kratom outbreak I would NEVER have ordered the stuff. Like I said in a previous post, this dreaded disorder has made me so desperate for an hour or two of sleep that I resorted to buying something like this. I merely want other Kratom users to have the information that is available for anyone to read (I'm not making this up...Google it) and make their own INFORMED decision as to whether they want to consider the risk of continuing to take. That's the last I will say about this subject.

You have done the right thing alerting us all to this and I'm sorry to hear about your severe bout of illness. It would be unwise for any of us to ignore the warning. I'm not in the US and am not thinking of trying Kratom but I googled it as you suggested and came across all the reports and information.

I think it's genuine and has been investigated by the appropriate US authiorities.

There are bound to be more cases in the US as the population is so much larger and if there are only 1 or 2 in other countries there wouldn't necessarily be a link made.

The suggestion was not that it was one lot of manufacturers but several and so likely to be a problem further back down the line.

It is a herbal product and not medicinal and so not subject to the same regulations.

They did in fact find salmonella contamination in several types of Kratom. They said that due to where the product is grown it is likely that the salmonella was on the plants from eg irrigation and the way the product is dried or preserved or something meant the bacteria were left in a state where they could regenerate.

Several batches were recalled but it could be there are still batches out there with the same problem and also still some in folk's houses.

Yes, there are risks attached to many types of things and I don't think this risk can be quantified but I think it's real. I'm just summarising what I've read as some seem to be discounting it without reading the info.

You should not have to apologise for alerting us to a genuine issue.

Thank you

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Thank you so much Alison. I also thought I was doing the right thing bring it to peoples attention but was beginning to feel bashed for doing so. I very much appreciate your support.

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We should all be grateful to you. You could well be preventing illness in others. Also I think it is worth reporting to authorities somewhere that this has also happened to you. You are unlikely to be the only one if it has occurred in your batch and also if it's not related to your Kratom it is worth knowing. Salmonella is also contagious as far as I recall and it could be spread to others who are even more vulnerable including children. It can have other effects apart from the nasty D and V as far as I recall ( am an ex Dr and the memories are deep in there somewhere but not necessarily as accurate as they once were! )

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and to mention, I am in the USA

No I get you are in the USA, and I get you are only highlighting this issue, it is just, as an advocate for its use I had never heard of this and I certainly wouldn't recommend to people if I thought it harmful. I had already posted that I can only find this issue in America!!

The reason I asked for a link to the deaths is I have already looked and can't find any and I would really like to find and read that link. The reason I added the chicken salad as that was in a news item I found that wasn't coming from a prohibitionist stance.

In fact I cannot find any information on anyone getting Salmonella outside of the USA. I am not doubting your experience in any shape or form I am just looking to identify any harms. I will advise that people in the US have been suspected of being harmed by this so thank you VERY much for taking it to my attention.

In the interests of safety I contacted those I used to buy from and got this reply:

We are currently making between 50 - 100 lab tests on every metric ton of kratom product. We are testing for contaminations and quality issues. If any contaminations are found, the entire batch is then sent to uv treatment, which is the best way to kill any bacteria on live matter, the leaves in this case. That batch is then tested again for verification.

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Raffs, we are not talking about chicken salad here. We are talking about Kratom. Yes you may hear more on the news if the salmonella source is the chicken salad because that is something millions more people might likely consume where as there are proportionately fewer people consuming Kratom and perhaps not as newsworthy a topic due to I would think less people using. Thats why I am reaching out on a forum where Kratom s discussed with my concerns. Ask almost any person in the world what chicken salad is and most would know, ask the population if they now what Kratom is and I am guessing less than half would know. I personally never heard of it until I became active on this forum.

Thank you mmb. I use Kratom intermittently and will continue to do so but I have always been concerned about the risks of taking a product that attracts a lower degree of regulation than most consumables, still less pharmaceuticals. For me the Kratom passes the risk benefit analysis but I am glad to have the potential difficulty flagged.

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Thank you. I felt the need to share my experience just to alert others as there are many on this forum who take Kratom with good results. I was also hoping for those good results which unfortunately I will not achieve as I sent my bag of Kratom back to the supplier with my story. I will never touch the stuff again. I am in my mid 60's so guess I'm considered elderly but let me tell you there were a few hours that I really thought the salmonella was going to do me in . Had a much older individual gone thru what I did the outcome might have been much different. Basically just a concern I felt the need to share with my fellow RLS sufferers on this site. You have all been more than wonderful and I have gained so much knowledge from so many of you that I wanted to merely make all aware of this. I had never heard of such a thing but like I said I've been at deaths door this past week and felt the need to share. I am truly sorry if I offended anyone.

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This is very interesting. I am in the UK and have never come across Keaton but only in the same way I have never come across cannabis. If I had come across Keaton I might well have been tempted to give it a try. You have made me think carefully about using anything where I am not sure about its provenance. Your experience must be a cautionary one and I am sorry to read of your experience. Thanks for sharing.

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What’s Keaton?

Hi, mmb, I'm sorry to hear of your getting salmonella poisoning. Was your Kratom supplier based in the USA, or elsewhere in the world?

Yes the supplier is US based

Hi, I've taken Kratom for quite a few years and have bought kratom from about 5 different vendors, and I've never had any problems. I wonder if you can take your Kratom in for testing? To confirm if the source of Salmonella really was the Kratom?

I'll take a look now too!

And actually I first thought it was a simple stomach bug not knowing what was to come so i still took the Kratom after I had been sick a day or two all the while thinking it was a 1 or 2 day event running its course and I would feel better. I was particularly desperate for a little bit of sleep to help fight off this "bug". So that just added more injury to the whole mess for me. When after 7 days I was getting sicker every day I knew it was more than a simple stomach bug. Had some testing done and hospitalization then being told it was salmonella I did some back pedaling trying to recall everything I had eaten prior to its onset. Kratom was something that to me appeared to be the likely culprit. Would not have thought too much more about it until I read all the articles on the internet about Kratom making many sick. I know I would never have tried it had I had any inkling that this was even a remote possibly. I never heard of the salmonella/Kratom outbreak. My friends had warned me several times to be careful and were a little worried about me ordering Kratom. They were telling me that "you just never know whats in the stuff you order online especially something like this" but of course the desperation RLS provides us poor souls to find some relief I went ahead and tried it anyway. For me Kratom didnt help my RLS and possibly caused me much more anguish than the RLS ever did.

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You see this exactly illustrates why your warning is SO useful. As I said, I will continue to take Kratom intermittently (obviously solely as a treatment for my rls) but now I will be vigilant and if experience any symptoms will stop and consult doctor. I am grateful to you mmb.

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Thank you so much involuntary dancer. I've said many times I only posted my experience to educate others. Not telling anyone to stop taking it just be aware of what some people have endured. I appreciate your kindness. Not sure why I got a less than positive response from another forum member.

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thanks for sending the link

I get a defensive vibe from mmb8083 and my apologies if I appear confrontational but all I am asking is clarity for something I recommend and I am sure no one would begrudge me that?

I have noticed that it is only ONLY in the USA, it is odd as I have said that a country that tried and failed to prohibit it suddenly found it was causing Salmonella when they couldn't ban it. There are NO cases outside the USA that I have found and when I contacted a supplier I posted their response in the name of clarity and advice.

I have not denied mmb8083's claim they were sickened by the Kratom , (even though this has not been proven). I added in the Chicken Salad to highlight that MORE have gotten sick from this yet there are no newspaper articles claiming Chicken kills. It is in no way to minimise the suffering of mmb8083 nor a challenge to your claim of illness nor claim of the outbreak. I AM NOT DENYING ANY OF IT so please don't feel the need to argue with me - I am not fighting.

mmb8083 has claimed people have died from Kratom acquired Salmonella:

[QUOTE]There were hundreds of cases and several deaths so it is definitely something to bring to peoples attention that are ordering this stuff online [QUOTE]

Yet when I look to the CDC site for info there is no mention of it:

cdc.gov/salmonella/kratom-0...

in fact it categorically states:

Thirty-eight percent of ill people were hospitalized, and no deaths were reported.

I asked for a link to where the deaths are reported and haven't been given and can't find one. I Just want to have clarity and proper information. PLUS it is very strange it is only the USA - are there no other tinfoil hatters on here that thinks similar :)

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I say again that just because there are no reports of salmonella outside the US it does not mean that no cases of Salmonella were related to Kratom. It needs folk to recognise the link and put 2 and 2 together. The fewer likely cases the less chance there is that someone will pick up the link. There are sporadic cases where no one can pick up where the exposure came from ...... and it also requires that the sufferers admit to having taken Kratom. In lots of countries it is likely to be an illegal substance and many of us are elderly and wouldn't want to admit having ordered it, even if they had realised the possibility. There is no way that the assumption can be made that there have not been cases elsewhere.

Your arguement is reasonably valid but you don't take into account the likes of Heroin users in Ireland and Scotland that had contaminated heroin which caused deaths and despite the illegality of the drug the links were made:

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotlan...

Jebus, I mean...JEBUS!

As said I do not want to argue nonsense with you or anyone else, just want facts - PLEASE?

ALSO if it was killing all these people as has been suggested in this thread then surely the services in Europe would have picked it up?

I also think it is a very risky strategy to try to reassure people that something is safe when there is a warning out about it and especially when the evidence is clear, and siting some sort of underhand suggestion that the evidence has been falsified. If one person becomes ill as a result of that reassurance ( as opposed to reviewing the evidence himself and then making an informed decision ) then I think that is a dangerous road to follow.

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There is no attempt to minimise the safety if I have done that please highlight for me so I can change. Also please highlight where I suggest any evidence has been falsified - I thought I was quite clear in my last post when I said:

have not denied mmb8083's claim they were sickened by the Kratom , (even though this has not been proven)...It is in no way to minimise the suffering of mmb8083 nor a challenge to your claim of illness nor claim of the outbreak. I AM NOT DENYING ANY OF IT so please don't feel the need to argue with me - I am not fighting.

If one person becomes ill because of reassurance!!! PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE show me where I have offered any reassurance that Kratom is perfectly safe, I'd be very keen to see it.

What of all the people that become more ill or maybe they kill themselves because pain/RLS/addiction is too due to misleading information? Very one side and misleading view to take is it not? Also a bit much hanging anyone's sickness on me. Anything I suggest is given with the caveat that the person do their own research as I am not a Dr, not that that would be a guarantee that I wouldn't prescribe more harmful drugs - the BNF is full of them!!

I have done nothing but ask for facts because as I am stating for the last time - it is something I recommend and I would like to make sure I am not recommending anything dangerous.

As a Dr I'd have imagined you'd be a stickler for the facts and as I have seen and read the facts, as I understand - and anyone please feel free to correct me are:

1) Salmonella has only occurred in the USA

2) It only appears to have effected USA suppliers

3) No one has died from Salmonella

4) More people contracted Salmonella from Chicken than Kratom during the same period,

5) There was a disproportionate representation of Kratom in the American press.

Have I gotten anything wrong? IF so please correct me.

Please folks I DO NOT WANT TO FIGHT OR ARGUE please somebody translate that and put it im my posts so I can find out information and facts and not follow my ar$e down a rabbit warren of if's and buts.

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Hi Raffs and everyone, I've taken a few hours to think how to reply as it obviously doesn't do any of us any good to argue and there is a lot of strength of feeling around this important subject.

The written word is easy to misunderstand so if i have done that then I apologise, but since you ask, saying what you did in one of your first posts in reply to mmb8083 starting with ' it is worrying how drugs open to us are being reduced and removed under the guise of abuse prevention yet when that didn't work for Kratom in the US there appeared a salmonella outbreak' and then in a later post you wrote ' I have noticed that it is ONLY in the USA. it is odd as I have said that a country that tried and failed to prohibit it suddenly found it was causing salmonella when they couldn't ban it' both suggest to me that you imply that the reports have been created in order to ban it by another means.

I don't believe that at all and that is what I find a risky way to go about things.

in an ideal world everyone would have the time and inclination to do their own research but many don't and so seeing advice from someone on this forum who may be some sort of expert on the item can sway folk into taking something or not.

That responsibility hung very heavily on me during my career. One becomes more and more aware of the serious implications of giving advice and being asked to professionally assess a situation. Getting this wrong is both culpable and also leads one open to being sued. I am now very glad to be relieved of that burden. I would never ever have discounted a genuine report of a newly recognised condition from a reputable body. New knowledge appears all the time as links are recognised and situations evolve. We just have to look at the DA's whose worst side effects were not at first recognised and didn't become apparent during the initial trials.

But folk who don't have this experience can perhaps be less aware about how folk can hang onto their every word and what that might lead to.

I googled the link between salmonella and Kratom and again I say it was thought that it was back down the line at the growing and preserving process that they thought the salmonella contamination was likely to have occurred which is why it was linked to several different manufacturers and why it could so easily also involve countries outside the US. Also folk in other countries can buy from US manufacturers.

In the US the numbers will be much larger and so links more likely to be made.

So, stating it has only been reported in the US though factually correct can easily falsely reassure folk from other countries once you read about where it is thought the contamination occurred.

Your mention about the contamination of heroin in the UK is not relevant to this matter as it is very obvious from eg injection sites when someone has taken heroin. Also these users are much more likely to admit their use as they are addicted and desperate to obtain more.

For Kratom use it is far more likely to be poor souls like us all on this site, desperate for something to prevent our awful condition but much less likely to admit to its use, even if anyone thought to ask.

It is irrelevant if there were any deaths in this group from the salmonella. Salmonella is still a serious condition and there is likely to be cross infection into other people some of whom could be children.

So, to summarise I think we should be very grateful when someone alerts us to a link to something potentially serious

I want tests done, double blind, placebo/ proper tests. Pretty soon it will be illegal in all 50 states in the US. They have outlawed it where it grows because of the addiction rate. Just because something is "all natural" does not mean it is "all safe". So, proper studies need to be done.

I agree completely. But no one does double blind tests for herbal products as far as I'm aware as they are unregulated and so not subject to pharmaceutical rules.

It's a shame as the risk of salmonella may well be small and the benefits for folk with RLS big. Also probably the risk wont be in every batch but ........

Any site that speaks of salmonella tells you there are a certain number of deaths from that every year. Of course it doesn't list the particular thing that was consumed just that death can occur when contracting this parasite. In many cases I am guessing people just do not know what it was they ate to cause it. Yes most recover nicely but the fact that there are some deaths from salmonella in general was what was stated,

The CDC site is pretty specific in stating no deaths from Kratom as seen via link supplied.

Ok raffs. I see I am getting nowhere here. I am thinking the deaths that do occur from salmonella are mainly young children and very elderly who can’t fight this as well because I am here to tell you this is the sickest I have ever been in my life . Those are likely the very people that would not be taking Kratom. My point is whether there were or not any deaths from salmonella from those who got it from Kratom ( and was it proven their deaths weren’t Kratom related we will never know as a fair number of Kratom users may not share the fact they are taking it) am I wrong to warn others on a site where many do take it. Maybe the next time someone gets what they think is a stomach bug they will not keep using Kratom till it’s passed so they don’t make the same mistake as I who kept taking the Kratom because i had no knowledge of the salmonella/Kratom connection. I feel I put the word out to be careful. It literally almost “killed me” that I was taking the Kratom when I was already infected simply because I didn’t know any better. Had I read a post as I have been writing I know I would have backed off the Kratom for a few days so as not adding any more salmonella into my already very sick self. How can you possibly bash me for that

I never said you shouldn't warn people - if you think I did please show it to me. Again like every other failed accusation that has been levelled in my direction in this thread is ignored.

All I tried to do was find out information, (that you appear hell bent on preventing), as I have said again and again. I have it stated in several posts that I am in no way challenging what you have said.

What needs to be asked now is why you feel the need to keep misinterpreting what I have said and twisting an attack on me to look like an attack not only on you but from your last post you are hinting that my attack is now putting children and old people at risk, really?

Are you that warped in your thought that you feel good by either attacking random strangers on forums OR eliciting sympathy on forums like this? From the path of your posts it appears both!

Raffs and mmb, I think this discussion is mostly a classic example of reading words and misunderstanding the intention. Please, both of you, don’t feel attacked or the need to defend. I don’t see the reason; and I hope that also applies to others.

I don’t think raffs it bashing you for that. Actually thanking you for the warning. As do I here and now. From what I gather raffs is only questioning kratom - in general - as the cause. If it was, it apparently was only US kratom (from his info). But, I think all agree that it is good that you put out a warning - as one never knows.

Some discussion of this on Reddit:

reddit.com/r/kratom/comment...

I’m so sorry for your illness. I haven’t a bad case of salmonella decades ago and it remains the sickest I’ve ever been. I almost had to be hospitalized but managed to avoid it. It took months for me to feel normal again. And that was back when I was in my 20s. Please take care of yourself and get what rest you can with the awful RLS. Thanks for the warning too although I’m too chicken to ever take any unregulated or untested drug.

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The FDA had a big warning out in the US about Kratom and salmonella. fda.gov IT is from earlier this year, but you never know how long this unregulated stuff has been sitting around. for those who do not know, the FDA is the Federal Drug Administration.

Sorry, I was wrong all those cases ONLY in the USA of land of the free are representative of the world and the FDA and CDC are completely non partisan and infallible:

allthatsinteresting.com/fda...

nytimes.com/2014/07/17/us/c...

nytimes.com/2014/10/18/opin...

eu.usatoday.com/story/news/...

Moving on to drug companies I could go on and on - tainted vaccines, HIV blood products knowing that it was contaminated was sent to Latin/South America from Europe and USA.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/247...

Falsified testing and monies tainting tests why sure have some of that:

scientificamerican.com/arti...

...and on and on and on.

I am sure I will be told of all the wonderful drugs that help people like Mirapexin, Oxycontin, Valium, Thalidomide. My oh my a cornucopia of healthy and non life threatening concoctions from our valiant suppliers of Glaxosmithkline and of course Purdue Pharma, (because the (FDA) has little oversight over marketing and promotion of drugs such as these:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

No doubt the detractors will tell me these are all isolated incidents because a thousand different things are only isolated incidents. The failures of the above will no doubt be twisted to say all drugs not under the control of fallible places such as CDC and Novataris are all full of ethical and diligent workers.

AGAIN AND FOR THE LAST TIME.

ALL I wanted was to find out if this was legitimate, was the outbreak really caused by Kratom, where did it come from and why was ONLY the US effected - surely Alison7, the 3-5 million Kratom users that the FDA believes are using in the states and only a handful fall ill would that be the same level of problems that say Haloperidol causes? I would ask why such a response to a herbal drug while I never see you on here demonising Mirapexin - which not only left me unable to function properly for months it made me want to drive my car into a lorry and left me scarred for years - why not spend your time advising on that? There is a disproportionate edge to your response. Your response smacks of ad hominem and is as likely to cause as much if not more harm than you accuse me of, yet I doubt you have the ability to see that considering as in other posts your confirmation bias is very blatant.

You along with mmb8083 denounce me that I am promoting Kratom at the cost of to quote mmb8083 the lives of children and the elderly and you claim that I could be the cause of people getting ill yet I contacted Kratom suppliers to find out and educate people:

In the interests of safety I contacted those I used to buy from and got this reply:

We are currently making between 50 - 100 lab tests on every metric ton of kratom product. We are testing for contaminations and quality issues. If any contaminations are found, the entire batch is then sent to uv treatment, which is the best way to kill any bacteria on live matter, the leaves in this case. That batch is then tested again for verification.

Not very helpful and ingenuous comments as usual Alison7, carefully twisted to demonise myself DISPITE me only ever asking for information or presenting FACTS - as I have said I have asked where my facts are wrong and the best that you or mmb8083 can come up with is

PLUS Alison7 you are encouraging someone who has an illness and unable to verify its cause (how do you know she wasn't taking an MAOI and the problem was Kratom and the MAOI?) to report it therefore at the very least muddying the already very silted waters.

AND my last word on this subject - remember I am not well with M.E. and have limited energy and have already waste my brain clear hours at this cr@p, (If I had my faculties I'd have really posted a decent piece with proper references so my apologies at using newspapers however I believe that the same types that trust drug companies and the FDA/CDC implicitly will also trust newspapers.

prnewswire.com/news-release...

Review on Kratom use and mental health since all we've spoken of is physical health:

sciencedirect.com/science/a...

OK I have wasted enough of my precious time and energy. I know I can go know where with this line of questioning - IF ANYONE has any answers to questions I have asked and NOT personal jibes or attacks please PM me the info.

Doctors are human animals. They want to be loved, they are tribal, they instinctually favor stories over scientific evidence, they make mistakes, and even small gifts make them susceptible to being biased. Alice Dreger

(https://www.brainyquote.com/topics/biased)

I think this is getting ridiculous! No one is demonising anyone!

ALL medicines and products that folk might take have risks attached, that's the point. Conventional medicines are risky indeed. I would never take anything that was unnecessary. My role in prescribing I took very seriously.

It's just that we have to be aware big time.

The reason I suggested reporting the possible link is not that it turns it into fact until it's investigated but that that is how links and causes and effects of side effects from all sources are worked out and how they become apparent.

As Drs in the UK ( and I expect there will be a similar mechanism elsewhere ) we were encouraged ( and patients can do the same ) to report on a 'yellow card' any possible side effects or problems that could be related to something someone had taken. The central folk who monitor this keep a close eye and then if there appear to be several reports of the same thing it is investigated to see if the link is a real one or just coincidence. Sometimes ince a link is known about folk then stop reporting it and the numbers can therefore seem less than they actually are.

In the pharmaceutical world there is am indicator system whereby reporters are informed whether they still want to hear about already suspected problems or not.

It is very important indeed the world over that any suggestion of an adverse event is reported to authorities concerning any medicinal or herbal or food substance. That is how knowledge is enhanced.

I have seen many many medicinal substances that were originally heralded as wonder drugs which over the years became banned due to the ongoing surveillance. I have a feeling that the DA's may well become one of these.

The same has applied to eg pesticides, food additives and all sorts, asbestos etc.

We need to encourage everyone to report possible risks for the safety of everyone now and in the future.

I consider this thread has reached the end of its usefulness but has generated some interesting information.

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