Using Kratom to come off pramipexole

[Deeperside]

I’ve been taking Pramipexole now for 13 years, two 0.088 a day. I’ve just ordered red vein kratom, which I realise can be addictive, but was wondering if anyone has used this to come off Pramipexole successfully? My last attempt was cold turkey........hellish and I know that the tramadol I was prescribed didn’t touch the symptoms either. I’ve zero chance of my GP prescribing anything stronger, hence why I’ve ordered the kratom.

I’m sick of taking this drug now, I struggle to relax during the day due to legs on edge and symptoms kicking off, and after 13 years, I really feel I need to ditch this stuff, and im now very aware how awful the withdrawal is.

Thanks

[Dougg]

Hi Deeperside. Yes, I used kratom to help me get completely off pramipexole. I was using oxycodone with pramipexole for severe RLS and became concerned that the prami was making my situation worse. I started downshifting one tablet at a time, and it was very difficult, as many on this forum have reported. Each time I downshifted one tablet, the side effects were horrible. Right about the time I was down to taking only one prami a day (and wondering how hard it was going to be to eliminate that last tablet), I learned about kratom. I tried red vein as you indicated, and I got immediate relief. I stopped the last pramipexole tablet and 25 mg/day of oxycodone in one shot with no withdrawal symptoms. I was hugely surprised and elated. The kratom actually did a better job for me in mitigating RLS symptoms than the prami/oxy combo. That was three years ago, and I continue to use kratom as my primary RLS mitigation tool.

[Deeperside in reply to Dougg]

Thanks Dougg, your experience with kratom gives me great hope! I’ll work out a reduction schedule for the pramipexole, as I don’t want to just quit it straight off, but possibly reduce half a tablet every few days and see how I get on. It’s such a nightmare experience trying to get off this medication, and I know, without relief from the horrible side effects and no sleep, it’s just not worth the trauma.I’ll let you know how I get on.

Thanks again

[Dougg in reply to Deeperside]

Thanks, Deeperside. Titrating down slowly is a very wise approach. Best wishes to you in your journey.

[Covenant1962 in reply to Dougg]

Hi Doug, can you share how much Kratom you take and how you take it to mitigate the RLS?

[Dougg in reply to Covenant1962]

Hi, Covenant1962.

If you're new to kratom, I suggest starting with a very small amount - perhaps 1/8th of a teaspoon - and then monitoring the effect. (I mix mine in hot water, add a bit of vanilla and sweetener, and drink it.) The amount of time it will take before you feel an effect will vary based on your metabolism, digestion, and probably lots of other factors. For me it's about 45 minutes. If the RLS is still troubling you after that, then you could increase the kratom a small amount at a time until you've been able to calm your RLS symptoms. The key is to find the smallest amount that will sufficiently take care of your RLS. For me, that ended up being somewhere between a flat teaspoon (during the day) and a rounded teaspoon (evening and before bed). But everyone's body is different, and your optimum amount could easily be less (or more).

In my experience, the effect lasts about 3-5 hours, although I'm often able to get through a night without RLS if I take kratom right before bed.

If kratom works for you, I recommend that you rotate strains to avoid or slow the build-up of tolerance.

Wishing you days of joy and nights of uninterrupted sleep.

[Covenant1962 in reply to Dougg]

Many thanks Doug, I’m currently taking 1/2 tsp late afternoon and experimenting with different strains. At the same time I’ve been taking a small amount of pramipexole 0.044mg and 2mg of oxynorm to help me sleep. I plan to stop these soon to avoid any chance of augmentation or bad withdrawals. The overall plan is low dose combinations switched in and out.The Kratom helps with my mood and focus as well as the RLS but I’m very wary.

[Deeperside in reply to Covenant1962]

Covenant, I am three weeks off pramipexole now using Kratom, I literally just stopped taking the pramipexole after two nights using Kratom and DAs, and it was a doddle. I take about 7 grams before bed, and three to four grams twice a day. It works amazingly, and I think I only had to take a further early morning dose about twice in the first two weeks.

I’ve just received cannabis oil with THC from Holland to try reduce the kratom dependency, but I’m still taking about 6-7 grams at night. Like you I do mix strains, but I’ve stuck to the red Borneo for night use.

Good luck, and I think if you are trying to get of the pramipexole then Kratom is without a doubt, one of the best options other than opioids.

[Covenant1962 in reply to Deeperside]

Thanks Deeperside. Are you living in the UK? Where did you find the cannabis oil with THC? I find the Kratom good for RLS but poor for sleep and would like to try CBD with THC

[Deeperside in reply to Covenant1962]

Yes I’m in the U.K. the cannabis oil was ordered from Holland, I’ll attach the link.thc-olie.nl/index-en.php

It certainly helps sleep, but I still find it difficult to nod off for the first hour or so.

I’m not sure it’s going to be good enough by itself for complete relief, though definitely helpful and worth a shot.

[Covenant1962 in reply to Deeperside]

Many thanks Deeperside I'll try to access the CBD via this route. I am also trying to get my GP to make a referral to Project Twenty21

[Deeperside in reply to Covenant1962]

Hope you manage to get some CBD, I just transferred the money and it was sent courier. I haven’t heard of project 21, will have a look and see what it’s about.

[Birdland]

If you can tolerate kratom it could help you get off pramipexole. I tried it while weening off ropinirole but could not tolerate the side effects. It gave me insomnia as well as horrible nausea that large doses of anti nausea pills could not stop. It also caused such constipation that triple doses of stool softener and Miralax did not help. The good news is that it did ease my RLS symptoms. Good luck to you. I hope you have better luck with it than I did.

[Deeperside in reply to Birdland]

Thanks Birdland, I am hoping to just use the kratom for a short period to get myself off this medication, and I will hopefully manage with these side effects if it’s short term, but I’ll just have to try it and see. After 13 years on pramipexole, I’d love to get off it, though I admit it still works for me at night, and can usually manage 7 hours sleep, but I have definitely got some level of augmentation, and given I’ve been on them so long, it’s difficult to know how much effect this having as it becomes the norm. Thanks for rely 😊

[involuntarydancer]

I wish I'd found kratom when I was withdrawing from Pramipexole. I find it very helpful in treating my rls and the bonus is you don't need a prescription for it. It is addictive (or at least dependency forming) but I find it much easier to withdraw from kratom than to withdraw from prescription opioids such as oxycontin and codeine. The withdrawal symptoms of withdrawing from oxycodone were FAR more pronounced than those I experienced withdrawing from kratom. I find also the side effects of kratom less severe than opioids.

Good luck with getting rid of the pramipexole. It's very difficult but there's no one who doesn't give thanks once they're clear of it. It's definitely worth taking it very slowly with very small reductions (optimally a quarter of a tablet or less if you can cut them that small) and a good space (at least two weeks) between each reduction. The withdrawals are much less pronounced.

You may find that even kratom struggles to cover the increased symptoms while withdrawing from pramipexole but it will definitely help.

[Deeperside in reply to involuntarydancer]

Thanks for sharing your experience, I appreciate it. Given what you are saying with the reduction of pramipexole, I’ll maybe take it slower than what I was intending. A quarter tablet sounds like a better plan than my half reduction every few days. My last attempt was pretty much cold turkey, with tramadol on the first night, which did nothing, and the whole four days I managed without pramipexole were nothing short of hell, so I’m aware how badly your body takes to withdrawal of the drug.

I just want off it now, and ideally manage it myself without the need for meds, but I won’t know until I reach that point.

At the moment Kratom is my best chance to get of this med, and I’m going to do it! Says optimistically 😂

Thanks very much for your input

[involuntarydancer]

I rushed my withdrawal from pramipexole because I was keen to get off it but I had a terrible time for months after I took the final tablet. I have since read accounts by more patient people who took it much more slowly and they seem to have had a less traumatic (though still difficult) time of it. I would do things differently, go much more slowly, if I was doing it again. Good luck. I think you are right to get the kratom.

[Deeperside in reply to involuntarydancer]

Ah ok, were you using kratom at the stage following your last tablet? I think I’m just going to have to give it a go with kratom and see how things are.

If I knew I’d be a lot better within a couple of weeks of stopping I’d be willing to reduce quicker, but I’ve read of people, like yourself who suffer for weeks after quitting.

It’s such a horrible drug, and I’d never have taken it if I knew how bad withdrawal can be. Hey ho, with hindsight.

Thanks

[GuillaumeL]

To get off DA, I used cannabis (Indica / Hybrid) oil with a balance of THC/CBD. It was still very bad, but cannabis oil made me very sleepy and dampened the pain / spasms. Worth trying, less risk than kratom. Good cannabis oil with precise dosage information is very easy to get here in Quebec, Canada since the cannabis business is now legal and owned by the state. If its not the case where you live, it might be more complicated.

[Deeperside in reply to GuillaumeL]

Thanks for reply, unfortunately here in the U.K. cannabis oil with THC is illegal, so I’m very envious of Canadians having free access to cannabis in all forms. I did try smoking some grass( illegal) and it didn’t really have any positive effect in relieving symptoms, but I guessed that anyway.

I do have concerns re kratom addiction, but the way I see it is, I’ve not really any other options given my GP will not prescribe anything stronger than tramadol.

Cheers