Hello dear PMR group. I want to expose an anecdote and would love to hear your opinions on this matter… Two days ago, during a 4.5 hour flight, my husband and I returned home from our original home place. We upgraded our seats to be on First class because we were traveling with our cat and the whole trip was around 12 hours long. I need some sort of comfort for all my pains and aches ( I have PMR and Fibromyalgia ). Very very early in the flight ( practically immediately after take off ) a woman who was seated across the aisle with her kid, started coughing. But not an ordinary dry cough, this was a wet from the lungs cough. It was unrelentless. She seemed ashamed but was trying to cough in her elbow. Not consistently though. The man seated behind my husband also had like two or three very lung deep coughs that quite frankly, shaked and startled me with the horrible congestion noise. Every time the woman coughed I felt stress. I was wearing a mask and my husband too. She, nor anybody that came with her, that were obviously sick, wore a mask. I became increasingly anxious and felt imprisoned in a confined space without the possibility of getting out any time soon.
Finally, we arrived at our first stop. We got off the plane. The family was reunited in the gate. I felt the overpowering urge to go to her. I told her: “ you are so irresponsible “ and left.
A few seconds passed, she was behind me reclaiming why I told her so. I was in a hurry as I needed to get to the next plane in 30 minutes. I told her she was sick and coughing all the damn flight. My husband added “she’s immunocompromised “. She and her husband continued to confront me and she said, I am not sick. I laughed and told her, you should all go to the hospital, you have a pulmonary infection. She continued to harass me to the point I felt so anxious, I actually told her to get the F out of my face! She and him continued to walk all around us. I flipped the bird, because the man said you are a weirdo, you’re such a weirdo….
Such a mental, physical, emotional crisis existential moment…
I don’t freaking care being called a weirdo, who wants to be normal when normal is insane these days?!
But when I cursed, she said, I have children ! Like I was being a bad influence. HA! She was teaching the children to be super irresponsible for not wearing a mask being sick in a 4.5 hours, and the husband bullying me repeatedly calling me a weirdo all out shouting through the airport.
An irresponsible human and a bully (he also called me liberal, as if that were an insult, those in the US might understand ) felt entitled above a powerless sick older person who just wants to keep my hard earned health.
Your always well stated opinions are very welcome. 🌹
Written by
Alliswellforever
To view profiles and participate in discussions please or .
Whilst I understand your feelings, and agree the family should have been more mindful of other passengers, but as we know many aren’t.
Personally I wouldn’t have got involved in a confrontation, you just put yourself in a more stressful situation, which you obviously don’t need.
Just put it down to stupidly and lack of thought for others. Take the moral high ground and walk away. There is no point in engaging with idiots and getting into a slanging match.. there is no reasoning with people like that.
True. In the moment it seemed like a calculated risk. I just couldn’t stop myself to “rectify” a wrong. I suffered for 4 hours. They should be aware. I haven’t included that I was coming from home, having experienced a very traumatic ordeal with my mother. The whole time, two weeks that I spent with her were extremely traumatic and emotionally taxing. She’s having personality and cognitive long standing issues. I was not prepared for that turmoil and I even dissociate a couple of times. But I understand your point. Thank you!
That would have made me feel very uncomfortable and yes, the lack of care and health self awareness of people in these times (even pre-Covid) makes me despair. Sadly, messaging for political gain and ideology has created a monster out of the issue of mask wearing. Even people who know they should wear a mask or just want to are too embarrassed to in the UK. Apart from getting looks the most extreme reaction I had was when I was on a cruise and wore a mask. A retired Florida US judge came up to me and admonished me (incorrectly) for not having had the Covid vaccine. I felt really got at. He had come to that conclusion because I was wearing a mask I wasn’t vaccinated. We had an interesting conversation and that’s what it was, a conversation between 2 people whose worlds were so far apart it was mind blowing. Our beliefs and circumstances were so different there was no trying to reconcile it, so we didn’t try. So hats off to him that he realised this and wound his neck in eventually.
I understand how you had reached boiling point after festering for 4.5 hours. By that time I suspect you were well past thinking about what were the multitude of possible circumstances that may have led her to fly like that. That’s the trouble with having time to ruminate, it builds rage and thought goes out the window. That red mist stops us thinking about whether our attack actually might be defended. There was very little chance she was going to turn round and agree with you even if she thought it because she was in a defensive red mist.
I wonder what story your lady told when she got home. Rightly or wrongly, I expect she felt bullied because for whatever reason she didn’t wear a mask, she didn’t bank on being abused by a woman in the airport in front of her children. If her life was not good either, it would have felt awful. This is especially when masks are really no longer a priority in any public space so people don’t feel they are breaking any law. I think this is terrible and I dread the next pandemic. The cabin and airline staff should have questioned their fitness to fly but I notice they let on people who are clearly ill from a mile off. It is their responsibility but I suspect that by the time you felt the need to offload, they were long gone.
She might have a chronic chest due to a host of medical reasons that are safe for you, who knows. She could have been just selfish like many of us when push comes to shove and who are continually encouraged to think of ourselves only. All one can do is protect ourselves, especially as the cougher may be the least of our problems compared to the asymptomatic person carrying a newly mutated bird flu sitting next to you. It was unlikely to have ended well sadly because you were both too far gone. As an aside if your cat was in the cabin as it implies, that would have been a huge problem for my family, but you had your reasons to think it was a necessity and you were well within the rules if you were allowed to board with it.
Thank you so much for your time developing this answer. I agree with you, the world has become unbearably selfish… we need to adapt and survive. That was my reaction. Although, the woman accepted later that they (the whole family!) “was sick but not now” it was evident all of them are sick. I highly doubt it was chronic, not a possibility given the facts.
I actually didn’t yell at her when I said she was so irresponsible. So I can’t see me being the attacker!? I calmly told her so. It was her and the husband who literally closed me in a corner and bullied me.
I feel like we all have an opinion and my opinion at the moment was that I was under attack, just as much as if it were 2020. If that same situation would have happened 3 or 4 years ago, she would have been taken down, like a terrorist in that flight. It was THAT serious.
Pets are allowed in flights if they are kept in their kennel. I understand your point that it can be bothersome for some people. I appreciate your point of view, thanks again!
My point is about perceptions. You were already stressed and her behaviour tipped you over the edge and you had to vent. She had a complete stranger come up to her out of the blue and tell her she’s irresponsible. To some that would be triggering enough to be deemed abuse, especially if they are also going through hell. They may of course just be horrible people but there’s no context. Their reaction was over the top on the face of it and I wonder what would have happened if this had taken place on the plane. I doubt they would have rounded on you.
Regards the cat, I mean from the point of view of allergies, not having an animal in principle. And as you say, it’s allowed.
My turn for an aside, we were on a plane eating our complimentary nuts which for me was to be my only meal because they didn’t have the gluten free option as requested. Suddenly the stewards came rushing down the aisle taking away the bags from everybody’s hands. The reason it turned out, was that a passenger had just announced they had a severe nut allergy out of the blue which meant nobody could have nuts and I had to feel ill from no food. I was fuming and had to contain it because I wasn’t allowed to be because nobody was breaking any rules and their literal life came before my mere physical distress.
Yup - happened to me too. I always carried nuts in case of no food but when that happened - I was stuck too.
Once had a wonderful meal because Lufthansa hadn't booked my cattle class g/f meal - I had to wait for the posh lot to finish ordering and then I was offered a leftover - veal with fresh asparagus, as much fruit as I could eat and a lovely dessert that happened to be g/f. And discovered that even in cattle class I can ask for Sekt for drinkies and they fetch it from BC - I take a dim view of the German national carrier not offering me German wines ...
Yes, I was so triggered by her irresponsibility and that I had all my defense mechanisms wasted by my situation at home that I just could not let it pass. In hindsight, I would have managed my home issues differently.
Just read your whole rather disturbing story - sounds awful for you, and I sympathise.
As a general point, and not just for you, are flight attendants not able, or allowed even, to hand out masks, and ask “ill” passengers to wear them?
I seem to remember PMRpro posting at the start of covid, how the virus spread from air travel passengers before masks became mandatory. Are we learning nothing?
Exactly right. Me, not the sick one wearing a mask, meanwhile the actually sick people, not wearing one. There were two flight attendants. One of them was actually wearing a surgeon quality N95 mask. The other one was not wearing a mask. I wonder what participation if any should have they had…
It was a very challenging 4 hour situation for me. I highly appreciate your sympathy.
I think the point is, the wearing of masks isnt mandatory-not sure they ever were everywhere. Cabin crew have probably been advised to leave it to individuals -as they may be open to abuse..
Yes, I can understand that about abuse, but sure an “ill” passenger is less likely to abuse cabin crew than another passenger? Unless of course they were under the influence of some substance, which I gather is the usual cause of cabin crew abuse.
Unfortunately, the fact that having rights is also associated with having responsibilities seems to have been missed out of their education on those rights ...
Masks were required to flight in all flights in the US. They were discontinued two years ago. People (some) live in their bubble, no common sense or consideration.
Yes having read this story - I would have been inclined to offer a mask to the coughing woman. Confrontation in this day and age seems to escalate a problem. I hope you survived any infections post flight.
I definitely contemplated giving her a mask. I just didn’t want an issue on air. There was 50% chance it would have blown up in mid flight. So I didn’t react impulsively . Premeditated.
I don't know - personally I think it is like driving - you have to assume all the rest of the drivers on the road are potentially bad and assume YOU have to take more care as a result. If we wear an N95 or equivalent mask, we have improved OUR chances by 98%and it doesn't matter what anyone else is doing. Of course, if they had worn a mask of some sort it would be even better but, as has been known for a long time, you can't cure stupid ...
Not going to say too much in case I get told to wind MY neck in too!Yes,there are a lot of inconsiderate people in the world,I having sight loss in one eye andmy other having MD in it warrants me taking a cane when I go out.Some people are wonderful,some not so,zig zagging across me in supermarkets ,letting doors go when they enter a shop before me,the list is endless.Sometimes I give a withering glare at people ,sometimes a lot more depending on the situation.Yes,I think we do feel threatened health wise because of our vulnerability and maybe the Pred exasperates that , which is why even if I could fly,I don’t think I would for all the reasons that you have outlined here .I think the world overall has become a sadder place,everybody out for themselves BUT there are so many acts of kindness also being done,that somehow keep me going,and I try and think of the good things when in that sort of situation.This forum for one that has stepped in when we have been let down by so many professionals.Try and put the idiots out of your mind,as said on here ,stress LOVES us,would not give them the satisfaction of knowing how much they have upset you by giving them further thought.xxxx💐😜
Agree absolutely! My father brought me up ALWAYS to offer my seat to a lady in a bus or train or wherever etc etc. Doesnt seem to happen that often nowadays.
Such a shame ,my OH often used to remind me of the Blitz spirit ( he is a lot older than me.) Nobody had much ,but everybody helped each other out.Now everybody or nearly everybody has SO much abd don’t often help anybody out.Prime example,a little girl who jumps high on her trampoline and sees us in our garden waves to us on the upward jump!😂😂😂She is about 10 years old.I put a card through her door at Xmas with a fiver .NOT heard from her or her parents!The child will grow up with no values or principles if even the parents have none!Perhaps a fiver wasn’t enough for the entertainment she gave us,xxx😱🤬😜!.,
Zappata. HNY. That's a harsh thing to think. I'm sad that you have reached this point. There is much selfishness in this world. More than when I grew up. some parents have forgotten the golden rule that every child should write a thankyou note for each gift. As for paedophiles! least said the best. In honesty I doubt there are that many and the media is to blame for making people so untrusting.
Well if you know them and they know you that's different. I thought you had implied you didn't know the parents and only saw the child. Sorry for any offence taken - was just looking for an explanation as to why they hadn't thanked you
I understand your comments. We have to shield each winter, for my lung issues. My husband had pneumonia twice last year, too. If we travel we wear ffp2 white masks, & for the past 3 years have been the only people on the plane in masks! We do not travel long haul, it’s too risky, it’s the easiest way to catch bugs, even in an ffp2 mask!! However, my husband has bad asthma & coughs, sometimes for hours, with some respite & gaps, obviously. Sometimes its a dry cough, but more often you can hear the phlegm moving around. I really dislike flying now, because people constantly glare at us, one group moved away from us at the baggage claim (& we weren’t that close). It’s obvious everybody thinks he’s sick & we shouldn’t be travelling. It’s really unpleasant, but short of getting T-shirts that say “we aren’t sick, we aren’t selfish, we aren’t infectious?? I do immediately tell anybody who sits in our row, as soon as David’s cough starts (aggravated by the aircon system in the plane, as it always is in the car…we don’t use aircon in the car, however hot it is! I’m not saying this is the case in your story, obviously!
I don’t know. N one occasion he went in sick, & it was pneumonia, & the next month he went in with a gall bladder infection & then got ‘hospital acquired pneumonia’!
I can’t imagine what you and your husband have to go through in your travels. But at least you are wearing a mask, which for the expectator, is an act of responsibility and consideration. Keep safe and take care!
Isnt it just!Holidays are a distant memory for us now,but even when I feel down about not seeing the world I then think of the heat,airport chaos,and having to putall of our animals in kennels.When the sun is out,sitting under our trees,watching the birds,and sitting in the pool with our dogs,life just doesn’t get better.PS It is ONLY a paddling pool,we aren’t that affluent!xx😜
We both need the heat…each cold day, David’s cough gets a little worse! We love where we live, 52 species of bird seen in our garden, wood nest door, inside a national park…but we need better weather!! We are only 20 minutes from two local airports, & last year we flew down to the Dordogne in just over an hour…picked up a car & twenty minutes drive to our gite. Lovely!
Sounds wonderful!We have owls in next doors trees,a kingfisher, and so many other species all attracted to our large natural pond.We also have a one footed magpie that took refuge here when his mum abandoned him.He feeds with our ducks now and is excellent for keeping rooks crows etc away from my feeders!A lot warmer today thank god ,didn’t freeze my extremities off when replenishing the feeders early. Stay warm and love to you both.xx💐😜
Still too cold here, & I can’t walk due to my knee dislocating three days ago. Think I did a lot of tendon damage as I fell. Sky is blue, frost is out there. David filled the bird feeders yesterday, so can sit in front of French windows & watch them all…plus the four squirrels!
read a comment on your bio saying ‘always make the best out of every situation ‘….. I’m not sure what the best for everyone would have been in this situation though.
Personally I cancelled a cinema visit recently rather than cough all through the film with a harsh persistent cough that sounded disgusting and I thought I could even cause me to be asked to leave.
If I feel compromised or at risk I wear a mask or simply don’t take the risk at all.
Thing is, I have to look for what is best for me! NOBODY is going to take care of me. Not being selfish. It’s called self care and awareness. I felt attacked by irresponsible people (4 of them) flying barely 3 feet from me in enclosed space for 4.5hours. To me, it’s potentially life or death.
The four of them were coughing deep long seated phlegm. If you would have read the whole story… my cat was not wandering around. He was confined in a kennel.
Sounds disgusting. Even though your pet. was safely in its kennel some people react strongly to allergens . Think recently about these peanut emergencies.
Since my daughter and wife don't take precautions around me when they have colds and cough I've long given up worrying about other thoughtless people. Most people don't have a clue about immunosuppressed conditions and care even less about finding out. This really cold spell is actually a blessing for killing a few bugs and despite the water being frozen from spring to house we are managing well on the farm. You can't get anywhere with people who are closed to reason or reasonable behaviour. Maybe a quiet word to the stewardess or steward on the flight would have worked especially if you explained to them. they have a magical way to get results and keep everyone calm.
I probably should keep schtum, as I am asthmatic and the cat would set me off. If it had been me, I would have been the one coughing and spluttering and sneezing all over you and my eyes stream too. And yes, it's often not just a polite ahem, when I am allergic to something. It can be gurgling, rib wrenching, explosive coughs as my lungs fill with fluid.
I've been masking up over the winter when I am shopping or in crowded places, especially with the current increase and coughs and colds. No-one has ever said anything critical to me about masking. If they did, I would politely suggest that they worried about themselves and leave me to my own devices.
Though I will concede that it is pretty unpleasant when a stranger pursues you and insists on getting their point across. Not so long ago, I went to a concert and I had been talking to a lady next to me and commented that I wasn't overly impressed with the performance and a bloke the other side, overheard and weighed in, getting pretty shirty. Afterwards, he was waiting for me in the lobby to have another go. It was quite astonishing. And then there were the young couple in Tesco that chased me round the aisles fat shaming me, until I told them that I was busy and would they please go forth and multiply somewhere else.
Absolutely shocking to fat shame you G!But SO glad that you had the gumption to challenge them.Sad ignorant people,another brain cell between them and it would have been lonely.Xx💐😜
Well, I am usually pretty careful not to get into altercations with strangers, if I can avoid it. You never know when you might meet the nut with the axe, so I can be pretty dismissive, if someone else is trying to start something. These two were buzzing around me like a couple of flies, and I think probably getting increasingly het up that I stayed calm, but in the end out of sheer exasperation, I invited them to go away. They just looked at me very surprised and walked off. I get bored with arguing with people pretty quickly and usually can't be bothered. I have always been like that, much to my ex's annoyance when he was trying to pick a fight. It earned him a divorce in the end and I know that came as a big surprise to him. lol
Actually, considering their relative youth, they probably didn't anticipate that a silly bumbling old dear doing her shopping had that kind of language in her armoury. I may have even got some kudos there.
Hi Alliswellforever. I understand the anxiety you felt very well being in an enclosed place like that. It’s like going to the doctor’s office with a late afternoon appointment and you know all the germs have collectively decided to infect you as well as the coughing bleary eyed people.
I think 2 things: here in the States someone will offer a tissue or box of them lol. And an element of importance too is you are not privy to their situation: last flight home, parents who need their attention quickly, dying relative in hospital, escaping prisoner family from ……….🤪 We just don’t know their circumstances. Before COVID it was also awful to sit near sick people on a plane.
Remember when people smoked cigarettes on a flight? How did we endure it? We breathed in terrible legal toxins. It sounds like your anxiety met with their sickly temperaments and there you go: Explosion. It’s ok. It just happens. (And luckily they are strangers:)) MM
I can completely understand how you felt, and although the encounter didn't go well, at least you did speak up, and once the experience recedes into the past you can be proud of that. I caught covid from some unknown person shortly before Christmas, although I mask in all public indoor spaces and avoid risks - like flights, for example! Some random infected person contaminated the space through which I moved, and I'm angry about that. The frustration is not knowing where, how or who, so I can't even avoid the situation in the future. I wasn't particularly sick. Without a + test I'd have agreed, "just a short, mild cold." Better in four days. But I tested+ for 14 days.
The problem with people who are obviously sick not wearing masks is it could kill someone who is extremely ill, suffering from chemo or other issues. I would have asked to be moved and explained you are immunocompromised. My husband is quite ill with chemo and wears an N95 mask everywhere. I would ask to be moved in a hearbeat. People just do not understand. I do explain why and so far then they "get it" tho not always.
Having read ALL this thread again - can I put examples of the other side of the coin?
How would you have felt if the lady concerned had said something similar to YOU about the fact your cat was in the cabin? As a European, it would never occur to ME that I might enter a plane and sit down close to an animal. I know people who would have been in a similar state to her purely from being in the same room as a cat.
I have a very strong aversion to perfumes - especially the cheaper sort added to household cleaners. But you know how sometimes it smells as if someone showered in their spray-on perfume or deo? I have to leave a room if someone like that comes too close or I cough and splutter too. Getting in the lift after them is awful - I try to gulp air, hold my nose until I get to the ground floor and don't breathe.
My niece has cystic fibrosis - not infectious but she coughed like that lady all her life until she qualified for one of the new medications and the second one worked.
You are going to meet people with coughs and colds all over the place and if YOU are the person with what you perceive to be the "problem" (for want of a better word). YOU could take the proactive move and wear a mask so that whatever situation you meet, you feel safer.
Content on HealthUnlocked does not replace the relationship between you and doctors or other healthcare professionals nor the advice you receive from them.
Never delay seeking advice or dialling emergency services because of something that you have read on HealthUnlocked.
Back off the horse ... 
off topic -Another telephone scam 
OFF TOPIC Roll on 2023
Why GCA went haywire?... Today I was diagnosed with Parkinson's Disease~
post Viral symptoms
