I don’t seem to be able to find any comments on the site about working with the Zoe app. I am starting it to really work with my diet vis-a-vis not getting diabetes. As I have so much to deal with in my life at the moment I thought it a good idea to have the experts in food, micro biome, metabolism etc. take over. It has certainly helped friends with medical issues and generally as well as being an education in dietary issues.
I am just wondering about how pred might affect results? Any thoughts anyone? Or experiences.
Thank you,
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I've followed the Michael/Claire Mosley low carb approach and it has certainly taken me out of the pre-diabetic range and I now have a normal HbA1c reading. I am actually thinking of re-introducing more vegetable-based meals at this stage so will be interested to hear how you get on. As far as pred is concerned I feel the diet has supported my journey. Good luck and I shall watch out for updates.
Thanks for your feedback Miserere. I have done the fasting window and indeed the Keto diet but want a more in depth approach to my whole system. I know that PMRpro is right on the diet ; I want to understand my particular responses. And I have advised them I am on Pred.
Mark you the initial experience is all rather gruesome - cookies of sickly sweetness to track blood sugar from the monitor on your arm which is really interesting as you can keep an eye on your dips and rises through the phone. A blue version of said cookies to track how long your poop takes from A to B, blood test to test lipids and carbs. It is a brilliant system - with videos and explanations and everything extremely well presented.
I have just put on a lot of weight (probably 12 kilos) over the last 18 months not helped by 8 days of antibiotics. back in June. Let's see how it all pans out!!
Prof Tim Spector set up the Zoe study into nutrition around 25 years ago with a couple of others and it came into its own during the Covid epidemic. I think it has been mentioned every so often on this site. In fact you should be able to find a lot of data on nutrition posted here. If I remember some people on here took part in some Zoe studies. Of course nutritional information for PMR and GCA is not necessarily included in Zoe, such as consumption (or cutting out) of liquorice, grapefruit, the nightshade family eg tomatoes, and a whole load more. Also a lot of people find that the drugs we need to take can cause our metabolism to change.
Thank you for your reply. I have looked but not come up with anything about the Zoe App in the search engine. I get your point re information re licorice (though didn't know about grapefruit) and the nightshades I avoid anyway because they link into arthritis. I didn't know they were forbidden with steroids. But then the medics don't tell you that either! Is there access to a full list?
Zoe is aware of drug effects on the results and I have been having an online chat about it with someone on the team.
There are over 300 posts mentioning Zoe on this board. I do remember when the App was launched it was discussed. Also they do Webinars every so often too, although that seems to have dried up recently. I even invested fifty quid of my hard earned cash into their special launch fund.
There is conflicting advice re grapefruit when I look it up. Many sites say there is no interaction and no change to metabolism - some just mention it may interact, so not sure whether it does or not.
Hi Piglette - I knew liquorice was to be avoided on account of PMR/pred but hadn't known about grapefruit or tomatoes - both of which I eat regularly, particularly tomatoes! I guess I should do a search on nutritional info for PMR/pred and get better informed...
In terms of Zoe, I started on this last September and it's been a good experience, I've learnt in the process and also have lost over a stone without feeling I was actually dieting and I have a new approach to food now (mainly the cutting-out/down of cakes, bread, butter, sugar, alcohol). But I was surprised that it was after 6 months of starting Zoe, i.e. when I felt really healthy, that I suddenly got the symptoms that turned out to be PMR, and here we are! I went back to Zoe as was anxious about putting on weight with the steroids (but will stop at end of the latest subscription mainly due to the cost).
I so appreciate this forum - it is a font of knowledge...
A friend of mine does the Zoe diet and is very keen and she is a doctor! I have been using an app called My Net Diary which has a free version and one you pay for. It checks the nutrients you have eaten against what you need too. I have been using it since 2017 and so did not bother trying the Zoe one.
I wrote some detailed posts on my Zoe experience. TBH the only useful bit I found of Zoe was the blood sugar monitor and as I said in my follow-up post, you can buy these directly from Abbott much cheaper. I'm having a brain fog day and can't find my original posts but if you click on my name it should take you to a list of my posts
Since pred triggers the release of glucose into the blood from the body stores in the liver and muscles, it is likely to influence the readings.
Personally I think that while ZOE has achieved a lot over the years, it has now become a big business, aimed at making a lot of money. In fact, immediately next to the notification of your post is another for this article warning about normalising their use:
There is a very real risk, too, of becoming so obsessed with what you can or "can't" eat that you develop an eating disorder.
NO foods are "forbidden" with pred - they are with some other medications and licorice is warned against as it my make the effects of pred greater. However, in the context of antiinflammatory diets nightshade vegetables are claimed in some articles to be pro-inflammatory - in others they are said to be beneficial. By banning them from your diet, you risk reducing nutrient intake from a wide-ranging rainbow diet. Everyone is different and identifying what worsens YOUR symptoms makes more sense than an unnecessary blanket "I can't eat ..." decision.
The HU search app is not very good - I often do better using google. There are posts about it - but you may have some difficulty finding them.
What I think the ZOE app may have to offer us is to identify the window when your pred dose has most effect on your blood sugar and which foods are particularly bad for the individual. But you would probably achieve that better by using a good old-fashioned paper and pencil diary and using the CGM to record your BS variations in response to specific events amd foods.
Thank you PMRpro for your in-depth response. However my impression is that the Zoe approach is to open up choices foodwise rather than clamp them down. Spector also promotes the rainbow diet as it enriches the microbiome. He did an escellent podcast with the lovely Michael Mosely this year on that very subject
As for the CGM I will only be wearing it for 2 weeks and the emphasis of the programme is on education about food and its effects which is what the first Medscape article you found (you are a walking library!) advocates. The makers of this technology are constantly updating these monitors as the second Medscape article points out, Also though they say it is not worth using on non-diabetics it is generally acknowledged that there are a huge quantity of people who are on the spectrum without knowing it. There is also a poop test and a blood lipid test all of which are fed into the overall diagnosis. The set up seems very professional to me and there are real people responding to queries pretty fast and intelligently so I feel so far it is good value for money.
I think any comment on making money out of medicines is rather de trop when we consider the state of Western Medicine and the bad rep of Big Pharma! At least there is no damage with Zoe, there is ongoing support and the opportunity to take some responsibility through education and some personal experiment which our overloaded NHS cannot do for us!
I found the Guardian article very interesting. But then if science isn't always exploring where would we be? And correlates are not necessarily causes - an excellent point which medical science has not always taken on board. I do feel I am part of a giant test but am happy for it to be so and of course am aware of the effect of prednisolone on the overall readings but they have this information on board (I double checked).
I am afraid Piglette I don't know where to look on this forum/HU which is a shame as any discussion would connect the Zoe App straight back us PMR sufferers.
I'm only expressing my own rather sceptical scientist views - but Blearyeyed has written a lot about the CGM and its failings - her husband has one. If the readings are that variable for a diabetes patient, they are also possibly delivering less accurate information to you.
If you go to Blearyeyed 's profile you will find her opinions - which probably then link you back to other discussions including comments about ZOE.
If you are only looking at the 2-week trial, fair enough, But it is a very expensive experience if you were to continue using it!
Hi PMRpro. I wouldn't want it any longer!! I keep checking. So far pretty even keel. they also want to work with non-diabetics.
I think the point is that there are several monitors provided by different companies. I am part of a major research survey that is being organised under the aegis of Kings College. I think there are more likely to be discoveries outside the NHS bureaucracy (who have to rely on outside testing and are unlikely to obtain state of the art monitors) because there is more money to throw at the testing and possibly more freedom to think outside the box.
Agree totally! Especially the part about obsessing with what you can't eat and losing nutrients in the process. I eat a lot of tomatoes ( a glut coming now on the allotment!) And I love potatoes ...(I know!!)
I went to a herbalist for a while and she gave me liquorice and ashwaganda.......it made me high as a kite! Very nice but not good for my heart!
I think regarding diet, Moseley is the most sensible. I miss him! Lovely man. Such a loss!
I agree, Michael Moseley's death is a sad loss, a wise and engaging man who influenced and informed a great many people - but I'm still flabbergasted that he went walking in the middle of the day in a barren landscape when it was 40+ degrees. But that in itself may be a useful just-one-thing (not to do) and serve as a health warning to others.
There have been several cases this year of tourists being a bit silly in going for walks around the Med area. Just he was high profile here so you heard about it. It happens a lot where I live - last week a 91 year old went off alone for a walk after breakfast. In the mountains, not particularly high and he did it quite often - but he slipped and fell off the path. It was noticed late afternoon but too late to do much of a search before dark. His body was found next morning. Lots of tourists arrive from living at sea level and catch a lift up to over 2000m for a walk - more often than not it is a sprained ankle but sometimes it is a heart attack. Either way the helicopter and mountain rescue are called out. And at this time of year you are looking at valley temps in the mid-30s and sun taking it to perceived mid-40s but can be down to single figures overnight.
So far the app has nothing to do with obsessing about what you can't eat. 😀It is just a test!! I can choose any foods to add for my meals. You can even find them via barcodes. However I am not sure about the next phase when the monitor is handed in.
Can someone point me in the direction of a list of not advised supplements/foods with pred??
Absolutely agree, using a CGM to see how Pred affects blood sugar momentarily on intake is more likely to cause people anxiety rather than being productive.Using a CGM when you aren't diagnosed as Prediabetic or Type2 is also counterproductive, especially if you haven't been tutored in the times to take your readings. Everyone gets a spike in sugars that might look quite scary as a number for the hour and a half after food or medication but the CGM gets people into bad habits of checking those numbers before they are actually relevant.
I have been following Zoe nutrition since September 2022. At that time I had PMR and was on 5mg pred. It was a game changer for me. I felt really well and steadily lost weight over time. My weight stabilised without yo-yoing up and down. The science made a lot of sense to me. When I was diagnosed with GCA in February this year I was put on a high dose of pred and within a couple of months put on loads of weight and struggled to stick to Zoe consistently. I do think the pred sent me off track. However, I am now down to 9mg a day and beginning to get back on track with Zoe. I don't know whether pred trashes your microbiome but I drink kefir every day. I must say I was disappointed to get GCA despite looking after my body and gut well, but maybe, just maybe it mitigated it being worse than it was.
Congratulations on getting down again kalgoorlie. We can but try to improve our health at all sorts of levels. And up to the minute education diet is invaluable. Hippocrates ( I think) roundly pointed out that "you are what you eat". I have seen so many positive results with Zoe. I put reducing inflammation as my no. 1 aim.
I follow Zoe and did the testing etc to understand how my body reacted to carbs and fat. Pred use for nearly 6 yrs with mtx latterly has given me a fatty liver, despite a good diet free of ultra processed foods or as much as possible. I haven’t stayed with the diet as the monthly subscription cost is too expensive. But I follow the principles and listen to the pod casts. Hasn’t helped my weight so have switched to the 800 calorie Micheal Moseley diet to see if that helps. My HbA1c remains stubbornly at 39-42.
Thanks Heron 82. My blood sugars are not dipping but still waiting for the emergence of the blue biscuit 😂 30 hours on!! Won't know about fats in the blood for a while. As I mentioned to kalgoorlie I am more concerned with inflammation (though probably all the same thing). Weight I think has got worse since antibiotics in June. So a microbiome issue.
Hi. I don't know how much this will help as it is only my personal experience. I started doing Zoe in December and stuck to the plan fairly rigidly for 4 months. I was diagnosed with PMR about a year ago and put on several pounds in weight in the first few months, so did Zoe in the hope of losing the extra weight and maybe tackling some inflammation. From the initial assessment I had excellent blood sugar and blood fat control but my gut health was poor. The plan was ok to follow although I never managed to achieve the recommended protein intake without resorting to eating a lot of meat (which then pushed my fat intake too high) or beans and pulses at almost every meal (the less said about that the better!). I lost a stone over the 4 months and during this period reduced my steroids to 2.5mg.I stopped rigorously following the plan when I stopped paying for the app as I did think it was expensive. Since then I have regained a few pounds and had to increase my steroids again. Not sure I'd attribute this entirely to stopping Zoe but I am looking at my diet again and have also reviewed how I exercise. I think if you have blood glucose issues Zoe will really help but it isn't the cure for all ills that they would have us believe. Good luck!
Found your contribution very interesting. Thank you. I tried to join the Zoe programme but was refused. The message was they dont take people on Steroids. You have to be off them for quite some time before they will consider you. A tad disappointing as I thought it sounded very helpful for eating properly.
It seems all the members who have reviewed the Zoe programme were not barred like me.
That is interesting. I challenged them at Zoe and they said it was Dr Spector's opinion and decision. It came out on the questionnaire they required before accepting people. It is history now and I have moved on by reducing the amount of carbs and sugar which have shown results and of course my bank balance as Zoe is not cheap!
That's helpful syashoaw. I was on the keto diet before this and lost a lot of weight - size 18 to 14!!. One can only try but all your comments are helpful - positive and negative.
Not sure my comments will help, as per usual I'm the odd one out. I started using Zoe during Covid and filled in their daily health questions, Covid vaccinations etc and in fact still do, although not sure how valuable that still is. I've never used them for anything else as it's never seemed neccessary I've never put on weight or particularly changed my diet for the four plus years I've been on Pred, and to add more insult to injury my HbA1c has gone down since being on Pred.
That is so true, definitely the lucky one, compared to many here, not even any side effects from the Pred. Survived the first day of zero Pred with no problems another day of 0.5mg then next day of zero and so it will go on - or not as the case maybe!!
I get that. And they are not cheap but you can put together your own. It's only seeds etc. And I get the sense they are trying to wake people up to taking more care of their diet and giving them the tools to do it. If that requires financing - well you can't run on air! You can get a 10% reduction if you look for voucher codes online.
Will keep updating when anything interesting to the community emerges. Thanks for your interest DogAgilityObsessed.
Oh it is ESPECIALLY useful while you're on Pred to see what steroids do to your blood sugar levels and how you can learn to manage them to avoid diabetes and lose weight. but see my post I'd skip ZOE and just buy the monitors direct from Abbott
I’ve done it and have found it really helpful. Feel free to send me a chat message if you want more detail.
I think if you change your search to Zoe programme rather than Zoe app you might find more relevant posts as it should omit the Covid ones or most of them.
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