This may already have been covered but I’d love to know about other people’s milk journey.
We know we need calcium but should the milk we drink be full fat or semi skimmed? Would we be better off with plant based ‘milks’, do they provide sufficient calcium? Is Lactose free milk a good thing? And what about our poor cows…
If you have a moment it would be great to know what works for you and share the experience.
Thanks!
I've been slightly lactose intolerant all my life (I also have IBS). I only ever have milk in tea and the occasional bowl of cereal. I just take my calcium pills.
From a calcium point of view I understand it is full fat that is best and the fully skimmed is a waste of time. Soya milk is fortified with calcium so is also a good choice. There is also yogurt and cheese too. Again different yogurts and cheeses give different amounts of calcium. Choose artisan cheeses rather the commercialised ones. I have very good bone readings, for some unknown reason, but I am a cheese lover, so cheese may have helped!!
The trouble I've found with the alternative milks eg oat milk is tht they are full of additives even palm oil, as well as some good additives like calcium. I react to all sorts of foods and meds with histamines in so neither oat or soya milk work for me. Any recommendations? I'm trying to cut back on tea with milk, I'm down to 6 cups a day, and add in things like herbal teas, Earl Grey tea without milk and black coffee. I struggle to find things I can drink as I react to fizzy drinks, squash and even tap water.
In my area anyone would react to tap water and warning don’t swim in the river!!
I've tried every filter going, I can only drink SMART water which is distilled. I should write to Yorkshire water and ask them about it seeing as I'm paying for water I can't drink - another thing on the ever growing to-do list!
My father worked for the medical research council and they checked the water supplies for UK. He would not even have ice cubes in his drinks. He said he was better off sticking to whisky with no ice!!
😱
Indeed, dad knows best: whisky, neat NO ice=Bliss🙂
Ice in whisky is evil ... Actually - ice in most spirits is wrong. Gin maybe.
The delicious clink of ice in your gin and tonic with a slice of lime - or mint leaves - or cardamom pods - or…..🍸
Evil.Exactly.
We love our whisky for its purity, don't we, especially the malts, what's the point then of going diluting it with water/ice?! I mean, they take the good strong stuff, cool it, dilute it🙄....might as well take lemonade.
pigeon
🤣 I follow in his footsteps!
I drink London tap water all the time...tastes good (and full of micro plastics, etc I bet).
I am a green tea drinker!
I was told by dietician after osteoporosis diagnosis that skimmed milk has the highest Calcium content. Check out Dorset Lady’s nutrition link. One of life’s *strange but true* facts 😊
It does - but it is mathematics! You have removed the fat, so the calcium makes a higher percentage - but it isn't absorbed as well as taking the fat out removes its bus to the gut wall cells!
It just goes to show how much there is to it all. Im switching to half cows milk and half plant based cause of the carbs . Thanks
Hurrah. Coffee with full fat milk is the best!
My Rheumatologist confirmed this fact, that skimmed milk does have a slightly higher calcium content . I drink loads of milk… I love it!
Cheese seems the best option from what I've read. Milk raises blood sugar levels and is implicated (though no proof) in cancer scares. As Tim Spector says it's such an processed industrial commercialised product it hardly even classes as food. He says something like the quicker something goes off the healthier it probably is (I'm paraphrasing a bit there but you get the gist). All the books on low carb eating say if you're going to have milk you might as well have the full fat. fat has been wrongly it seems demonized for allegedly causing all sorts of problems and being calorie dense when the real culprit is probably sugar and ultra processed food rather than fat. Meanwhile eat more kale and broccoli and spinach etc, pile your plate high
I stuck with semi skimmed at home all throughout my GCA years - still do , although don’t get through that much tbh- and like piglette a cheese lover. Coffees out are usually full fat, as are most yogurts at home… but do wander off into alternative occasionally.
Mine comes from a local dairy about 6 miles away from me - delivered in glass bottles - so I see the ‘producers’ in the field when I drive past… 😊
Never bothered with alternative milks as such - as a country girl it goes against the grain [sorry mixed metaphors there😳]… but when my grandson stayed with me I did buy lactose free milk and cheese for him.
Alternative milks and other foods are fortified - so for those who have issues there are plenty of choices
See this re calcium- and seems to imply not a lot of difference in milks…
nutrition.org.uk/media/xjtl...
What do mean by ..what about our poor old cows… ?
The pastoral idyll of milking in the barn listening to The Archers (Devonian farmer swore it improved the yield 😂), is long gone. Our cows are processed and of course their milk is really for their young not us. Thanks for another useful link x
Absolutely!👆Those poor mother 🐄 🐄 are kept constantly pregnant for the mass market AND calves are separated from their mothers. Ultra cruel. SAD. 😞
Full of antibiotics/residues in milk now even so called “organic” milk?
If only I liked sardines.🤢
I’m not a great fan either … unless on holiday in sunnier climes and they are fresh from the sea… so stick to salmon and mackerel…
Love salmon!
But the reality of salmon according to the RSPCA is that it’s mostly diseased, farmed salmon! I won’t touch it UNLESS it’s wild Pacific salmon.👆
now that is upsetting as i love salmon
I know sea lice endemic. You have to be very careful where you get your salmon.
there's another thing I can't get myself to eat!
I can’t tolerate much dairy at all and couldn’t tolerate much in the form of a supplement. So for my intake I go for other food for my 1200mg a day. Here is a handy chart but there are others online
bonehealthandosteoporosis.o...
Brilliant. Thanks.
Hi,
I avoid all dairy now: too much cruelty in mass milk and dairy products production. I’m actually prescribed chewable Calcium and vit D tablets so I take those plus other mineral and vitamin supplements. I find ALL milk now smelly and distasteful! Don’t miss milk at all!
Even my ice cream is vegan! The vegan Magnum!👆👏👍
You are so right! I have deliveries from Riverford and only drink organic milk etc, don't eat red meat, some free range organic chicken. Think I need to look into going fully vegan.
I am fussy about my milk - all from small farms up the mountain where the cows are fed fresh grass in summer and hay in the winter - nothing else. The calves remain with the mother for ages. I suppose it depends how you go vegan - the m*ilks are ultraprocessed foods and some require a LOT of water for production, almond for example. And the substitute vegan products are even worse.
I think I read somewhere that grass fed cows produce milk with vitamin k which is good. And yes it would mean finding out how to avoid the ultra processed nasties if going vegan. More reading up - I suppose its good for the neural pathways!😊
How much calcium is actually in “milk”, plant based milk alternatives (eg rice, soya, almond, coconut, oats/oat drinks (highish in CHO) etc), 🐄, 🐐, cheese etc?🙄🥹🧐🤣🧐
Note that many plant based alternatives to milk although fortified with calcium and vitamin D are sweetened with apple juice so diabetics need to watch out!
Good calcium chart below:
Definitely not skim milk - calcium needs some fat to be transported across the gut wall. M*lks are fortified to the same level as cows milk - no benefit, probably a downside since it is no different from taking a supplement as a pill and the body prefers dietary most things to synthetic pills. So semi or full fat, whichever you prefer - full fat makes tea taste disgusting in my view ...
Unless you have lactose intolerance - most adults do if they drink too much cow milk all at the same time, little and often is tolerated, but a big bowl of cereal with milk and a milky coffee for breakfast and a take-away giant latte on the way to work is overload. It isn't lower in sugars - the milk sugar lactose is processed with an enzyme to produce a different sugar to remove the lactose problem.
Parmesan probably has the most calcium per ounce - followed by other aged cheeses. Soft fresh cheeses have not a lot - forget the cottage cheese and other soft cheeses.
Vitamins A and D in milk are fat soluble and need fat to be absorbed, My daughter is a dairy farmer and sells her milk direct , her cows are mainly grass fed, they’re given a small amount of concentrate while being milked. The milkhas to be pasteurised, but is not homogenised or treated in any other way. Supermarket milk is pasteurised and homogenised but not processed in any other way. Seed and nut milks are heavily processed and use a lot of water in their production. I would rather use a natural food than a manufactured one.
You are in the UK I think? Don't rely on milk to provide any vit D - that may apply in the USA where it is fortified but it isn't in the UK or, as far as I know, in mainland Europe either.
But yes - milk not m*lk for me too.
milk fortified with vitamin D is sold in Ireland!
Is it? That is interesting
researchgate.net/figure/Cou....
suggests
"Dairy in Europe is perceived as a significant source of vitamin D, often based on US publications, where the fortification of dairy milk with vitamin D is mandatory in most states [38,41,42,69]. However, this is not the case with all European countries [87,88]. Europe typically does not fortify dairy products, as evidenced by our study. ...
... The national food databases of the UK, Switzerland, Spain, Denmark, and the Netherlands showed little to no vitamin D content in milk (0-0.23 mcg per 250 mL serving). This finding is consistent with other publications that cite the standard and frequent fortification of dairy in Sweden, Norway, Finland, Belgium, and Spain, with levels ranging from 0.38 mcg to over 1 mcg per 100 g (0.95-2.5 mcg per serving) "
and another paper says
"... Irish dietary vitamin D intakes have currently been estimated at 4.2 μg per day in adults aged 18-64 yrs old [52]. In contrast, in Finland which has a systematic policy of vitamin D food fortification of milk products and fat spreads, the proportions of vitamin D deficiency are <1% at the population level [53][54][55]. In recognition of the evidence regarding the poor dietary vitamin D intakes and inadequate vitamin D status of older Irish adults, the Food Safety Authority of Ireland has recently recommended all older Irish adults to consume a daily 15 μg/ 600 IU vitamin D supplement "
so it must be relatively new.
But aren’t mother cows kept constantly pregnant in order to produce milk? What about the antibiotics and hormones injected? Don’t those chemical residues creep into the final product we buy?🧐
The gestation period for a cow is roughly 9 months, so they are inseminated, or run with a bull, about 2-3months post calving. If antibiotics have to be given the milk is withheld from sale and milk suppliers are very strict on testing to ensure that milk that might have antibiotics in it does not enter the food chain. I’m not aware of dairy cows having injected hormones.
Doesn’t skimmed milk actually contain MORE Calcium than full saturated fat milk ?🙄🥹🧐
I explained above - it's the maths, the fat is removed so calcium is a higher amount proportionally. But it can't be absorbed without a carrier of fat - so while theoretically it has more calcium, in practice you don't get as much out of it. Plus it tastes disgusting! might as well buy a decent mineral water ...
I don’t drink any 🐄 s milk!
That's fine - but you asked the question. The calcium in m*lks is just a supplement - not as well absorbed as dietary calcium from natural sources. The content is also probably similar to that of milk, fortified yes but not to a higher level,
This calculator is very helpful, I am intolerant of calcium tablets.
osteoporosis.foundation/edu...
Thanks so much. Another useful resource!
I make kefir as a calcium supplement and microbiome booster. Don't know if it is doing anything but the reviews seem very positive.
I went onto full fat milk after a full hysterectomy nearly 20 years ago. I’ve also never wavered during PMR and drink it, have it on cereal and in hot drinks. I recently had a bone scan and everything was fine. I’m aware as I get older that should I have a fall it is it’s not usually the injury that kills you but it’s the lengthy time of respite care while broken bones heal and all the possible complications.
I might add as well that my teeth are in very good shape. Aside from replacing very old fillings I haven’t lost a tooth and none of them are loose I’m also aware that I seem to be one of the few that persistently still drink full fat milk as many of my friends drink semi-skimmed or fully skimmed milk 🥛
Hi thelmarina
Go on a vegan diet, which has very little calcium?
Then supplement your daily requirement, which can be anything from 0.8 to 1.2 g
This way you know exactly how much calcium you are taking, compared to milk for example, with so many variations
All the best
Persevere - vegan for 34 years
Most nutritionists these days say dairy is not good for us. Green leafy vegetables provide more calcium apparently! I went to a naturopath for a while and she said 'no milk or cheese', in fact ' no everything' apart from vegetables and fish. I couldn't do it!
And cardiologists are now finding dairy isn't the devil it has been portrayed as for years.
academic.oup.com/eurjpc/art...
Food fads come and food fads mostly go again. What cannot be disputed is that UPFs are extremely bad for you. And dairy substitutes are UPFs, however you want to look at them, They are also modern inventions - the human race developed their eating habits to be able to thrive!
Green leafy veg and calcium - well yes, kale has a massively greater amount of calcium in it per serving than milk. But that doesn't mean you get it all out of it - in fact you get about 40% from kale, 33% or so from milk. And spinach is a poor starter at 5% - just as under 2% of its iron content is absorbed (lots of other Popeye myths there too!)
" Spinach and collard greens are high in both calcium and oxalates. An estimated 5% of the calcium is absorbed from spinach vs 40% from kale. (12,8) For this reason, spinach and collard greens are omitted from this curated list."
myfooddata.com/articles/hig...
So a lot depends on the things you can eat enough of to get what you need.
Kale 🤮
I think HeronNS claims she craved it at one point ...
Don't get it. Tried it, and it's a big NO from me and I love most vegetables
Thought it rather underwhelming. Cavolo nero is quite common here. Considered medicine in a food as far as I can see! Suppose aligns with the idea if it tastes less than delicious it must be good for you!
That. Exactly that.
It's great in a soup or stew but I don't know how anyone coped with lots of it in a smoothie or juice , it's just so bitter.My daughter makes us Kale Chips though , really easy and very addictive.
Funny I tried to make Kale chips and clearly overdid it and got a charred mess
Yes, they literally take minutes , they crisp up more once they come out of the oven. We sprinkle smoked paprika or black pepper on ours.
now I feel obliged to try again 😂
The do look like something for the airfryer ...
I'll get some tomorrow and remind myself why I really dont like it. I only seem to use my air fryer these days anyway
😅
Update. trotted down to my local supermarket and bought a bag. Put it in the air fryer for a couple of minutes, watched it fly around the fryer - took it out - and yes, still think it's horrible! In the green bin. 😜
😂
😆😆😆
That's not true , from my experience.Both my daughter and I have done the Elimination and AIP diet testing under an NHS Nutritionist.
I'm not lactose intolerant so I'm recommended any semi skimmed or full fat milk , even with my cholesterol and gastro issues. I have Pancreatic Enzyme Insufficiency, so since this was found and is treated many of my gastric issues reduced.
My daughter is lactose intolerant and is being retested for Coeliac . She has either lactose free full fat or dairy free nut as her milk options.
The Elimination Diets were lengthy processes and did need proper order and supervision, but it was worth finding out that I wasn't intolerant to many things at all , it was more to do with which foods to put together in one go.
I'm afraid , after hearing the experiences of many people whom visit Naturopaths , and the disjointed , unsystematic ways they seem to test for food issues or administer alternative supplements I'm more inclined to want to avoid them.
Good nutritionists give you healthy diet advice and after proper testing try to get you back on to the most varied nutritious diet that you can have based on your needs.
Only over processed foods , artificial sweetener and over consumption of processed sugar or saturated fats and too much salt get universal warnings.
This has been my biggest problem since starting pred. I don't like milk, cream, butter etc.... I have the tiniest amount of lactose free skimmed milk in morning tea, black coffee and then other herbal teas for the rest of the day, peppermint, ginger etc.
I make myself have yoghurt every day and have never eaten so much cheese in my life. The only thing I am not sure about is the uptake in fat with these things. Even though I am not overweight I did have a fatty liver during investigations, no idea no as they signed me off after the last scan.
I wouldn't worry about forcing yourself to eat dairy, apart from Kefir or Yoghurt which are beneficial for the probiotics they contain. Nutritionists say that green veg contain more calcium and are better absorbed. Also, animal products are 'acidic' and pull calcium out of the bones to buffer the acidity. They don't worry about too much fat these days, too much carbohydrate is the one to worry about.
Lots of information here about calcium and sources (see Pro's link above)
I have Tims Kefir Greek Yoghurt (and Kimchi). Rarely eat meat, but do eat chicken and fish. I could easily be a vegetarian.
I really didn't like the taste of milk but I'm used to it more since having to eat yoghurt each day.I know how you feel for the first month or so if having to eat something as soon as I woke up it felt like such a chore, I was always a late breakfast person. I quite enjoy it now though.
I can't eat much cheese , even the really low fat versions and I used to love it. Although I do like the versatility of Quark.
I've got Familial HyperCholesteroleimia, which is actually a really common cause of people having high cholesterol and fatty liver results but never gets talked about. It was confirmed as the reason that I needed statins even when eating a sensible diet and using plant sterols. So , I can't eat much cheese and have to be more careful about how many healthy fats I eat each day too. Things like a high fat/ low carb diet aren't suitable for me or people with FHC or recurrent HyperCholesteroleimia.
I had chosen to be a vegetarian when I was 39 as a way of honoring all life Sixteen years later I became lactose intolerant and gave up all dairy ( and eggs too). I’ve been vegan for 25 years now. I get my calcium from lots of green veggies. Other great sources of calcium are chia seeds , almonds,tofu, white beans,sunflower seeds, dried figs, edamame, kale, sesame seeds,broccoli,and sweet potatoes. There really is no need for humans to drink another species milk for calcium. Check out other options. I drink West brand Soy milk which has no bad additives.
I thought milk was fairly useless for providing calcium to adult bones. I thought it was better to eat:
Soybeans (edamame)
Collard greens.
Spinach.
Turnip greens.
Bok choy.
Kale.
Broccoli.
See my reply to Blosson20 up a bit on the page.
I have always disliked milk and did anything I could to avoid the luke warm 1/3 bottles we were virtually forced to have at primary school. I even became a milk monitor! I have persuaded myself to embrace yoghurt and cheese. I love sheep's milk ice cream and a jersey dairy ice cream from a local farm. Tell myself it is all good for me - no broken bones for 20years.
Do you think that was a school strategy!😆😆😆I hated school milk with a passion that new no bounds and they made me milk monitor too!
What an irony! They gave the job with the "perk" of getting all the spare bottles to someone whom hated milk.
I used to give one spare bottle to my best friend whom loved it and would help me out by glugging down my bottle when the teacher turned her back. Then I'd sell the other bottles for 5 p each.
Not bad business savvy for an 8 year old. I made £1.25 a week, a fortune in the 1970's.
Oooo, I never thought of selling it. Was it for a sixpence or shilling? Or it may be you are much younger 🤣🤣 I was pre decimal!
Decimalisation was February 1971 - day after my hubby’s birthday -and the year my son was born . I was in Germany, but hubby was in UK on a course or something!
I came in with decimalisation ( born 1971) so it was five new pence. You could still get half penny sweets , so one week I bought 250 of them the bag was massive , I felt really rich.....took a month to eat them!
Ours was in cardboard cartons and had a bad smell.
Ours came in little milk bottles and you could see curdled cream sticking scarily to the rim.
Oh so true
Do you remember the little clots, (not the pupils), forming in those bottles carefully stacked in the sun? 🤮
Yes , exactly the stuff of nightmares!!!
stop! I've clearly blocked it .... 🤣
I wonder if that's where my dislike of dairy stems from. Never occurred to me but I can see those crates of milk now. 🤢
I have dairy milk (as yogurt and kefir) and plant based milk in roughly equal measure to get my basic level of daily calcium.
There are plant based milks and plant based milks. In terms of the environment oat and soya are best. However oat milk contains maltose which is bad for producing blood sugar spikes. On balance No Sugars Soya Milk is recommended as a healthy alternative and more environmentally friendly by the Which Consumer Association to dairy milk. It also has the added benefit of have vit D added too.
The recommended advice I've noted for various health conditions is that either full fat or semi skimmed milk are better and full fat milk products are a healthy option. Skimmed milk is not recommended anymore , not even on a weight loss diet. The reason for using milk with fat is two fold.
One , it's better for all types of diabetes. The fat content in the milk means that it takes longer to digest than skimmed milk and it's is very marginally lower in sugar than skimmed. This prevents you getting as high a blood sugar spike when you have milky things.
Two, the fat content in the milk helps you to metabolise and absorb more of the fat soluble vitamins in your food and drink, including any Vitamin D , so helpful in improving how well you also absorb the Calcium , Iron and B Vitamins you require. Full fat milk also contains 90 times the amount of Omega 3 than skimmed , and semi skimmed contains approx 40 times , Omega 3 to skimmed.
You can decide to use lactose free full or semi skimmed milk because it's easier to digest but it still contains the same total sugars and can cause a sugar spike similar to that when you use skimmed milk. It's just more suitable for those whom have difficulty digesting lactose.
Sheep or Goats milk are much the same but can be better tolerated by those whom get symptoms from lactose.
Better dairy free options are nut milk, like almond or cashew, for the same reasons they contain good fats but also contain high levels of Vitamin D and B vitamins as well as useful trace minerals, then oat milk is a good option but can create bigger sugar spikes if used in a meal containing other carbs . Oat milk products like oat cream and yoghurt is also very tasty and useable in cooking. Coconut can be good in smaller quantities.
Rice milk is good in cooking but it isn't great for carb content or as nutritious as other dairy free milks.
Soya milk or soya milk products in large quantities can cause other changes in hormones in those with thyroid and Kidney conditions and can cause symptoms for those in perimenopause or menopause , it's also better avoided by people with various stomach and intestinal issues because it can cause cramps , diarrhea or constipation with certain gastro patients. The jury is still out about whether soya in quantity each day should be avoided by men with prostate issues.
Personally, I steer clear of soya milk products but have the occasional protein boost in a meal or salad from edamame beans.
I don't like the taste of full fat milk so I've have semi skimmed in drinks and smoothies and use full fat in cooking or with breakfast, and full fat , live options for yoghurt.
I just read on the Johns Hopkins website that calcium supplements are to be avoided! I'm osteopenic at 103% of my age and sex, not too bad. So dietary calcium is my go to. I made milk kefir and now buttermilk from cultures when I get milk half price. The best cheese source is a cube of solid parmesan, with 30% of our calcium needs. I make yogurt with liquid whole milk and equal powdered milk.I also make my own bone broth from chicken and beef bones.
I looked at almond milk and fortified orange juice but it's just calcium supplements dissolved.
" I'm osteopenic at 103% of my age and sex, not too bad" - except the z-scores are really comparing you to others in the same boat and I often say, comparing rubbish with rubbish just means rubbish!!! The more relevant comparison is with what it was at best and how it has deteriorated - with the t-scores.
I fully agree with you about fortified products, just an easy way to take a supplement, not really dietary calcium at all. But as a top-up along with pred - some supplement taken with vit D is OK.
Being lactose intolerant for 10 years I drink fortified Almond milk but can tolerate hard cheese which has lower lactose.
Apparently whitebait has one of the highest calcium levels and whilst I’m not keen on salmon or sardine bones these I enjoy and order if out. Awaiting a first Dexa scan next month. See if all those weight bearing exercises have paid off over the last 20 years…..
Should live here - both coeliac and lactose intolerance are very common and suitable products abound in every supermarket! Loads of real milk and dairy products that are lactose-free as well as the generic cheeses that are naturally low cheese. I often buy them when they go out of date - half-price and taste the same.
Well Thelmarina, you really set the ball rolling with that one. I enjoyed reading all the comments and had a good laugh too. As for school milk, I loved it and was one of the ones who put my hand up for more. In the winter the silver tops used to pop off the bottles with ice and the teacher used to stand the bottles on top of the coke stove to warm them and us up. This was in the cosy first class of primary in the 1950s when we all knew what was good for us😉.Two fairly recent Dexa scans showed that I have the bones of a healthy 25 year old. I have to go back for my next one when I'm 95! I put it all down to the school milk until the age of 11. Maybe that's not the reason but I've always liked all kinds of milk and milk products. Oh, by the way I liked school dinners too!!
Study regarding milk Kefir and bone resorption/loss
Oat milk
New sufferer of PMR - What are the best foods to eat, and what should I afford to help keep well?
I feel great. What's happened? Are my adrenals working?
