I’ve tried searching to see if this has already been covered here but can’t find anything. So, apologies if I’ve missed anything.
I was told by a caring friend yesterday that she had heard an interview where a 4th vaccination would be given to people with an immunocompromised system. She was anxious that I knew about this but I can’t find any further information. Does anyone know any more about this please?
Have a look in FAQ - plenty of info there - healthunlocked.com/pmrgcauk...
This is main one -
I doubt it has been discussed in depth or decided yet. Or has she misunderstood the fact that immunocompromised persons got a third primary vaccine - extra to the normal course - and will also get the booster that everyone else is being encouraged to get now but not until 5 or 6 months after the third primary jab. I suspect things could well change again once they see how the effect of the third primary wanes in either group.
Thank you for the explanation but I wasn’t told whether the third vaccination I had in September was a third primary or a booster! Whichever it was, I was offered the flu jab at the same time but I actually chose to have that a couple of weeks later. As you say, it will probably be a wait and see situation in view of the Omicron variant.
The only difference is in what they write on the computer! And at one point the software would only accept booster. The actual jab is the same. Really a case of only the name has been changed to confuse the innocent ...
My situation is the same as that described by PMRpro. I had my third vaccine in September, and was told at my surgery to expect a fourth (booster) six months after that.I am vaguely wondering whether they might choose to shorten that six month wait now, bearing in mind all that’s been going on recently.
Paddy
I’m in exactly the same situation - definitely a case of “wait and see” !
Absolutely.
Unlikely as I think they are finding a six month gap is actually a good one. At least when it comes to the mrna vaccines. Unless they come out with a variant-specific version, perhaps.
In the UK the gap has been reduced to 5 months between the 2nd and 3rd because they are seeing the immunity falling off by 5 months. They don't yet know how it will develop after the 3rd - hence our scepticism about how big the gap will be,
What they found here was the very long gap between first and second doses actually led to better immunity than the original manufacturer's recommendation of 3 weeks. I refer to Pfizer only, don't know about other vaccines. There were eleven weeks between my first and second doses. People who were vaccinated with the shorter interval, and those with double A-Z, are eligible for a third shot now, although general population so far third shots have only just opened up to 60 year olds, at least in Nova Scotia. Our method is basically age based, and they are vaccinating older adults and the immune compromised first (pred has to be over 20 mg for a certain length of time so I don't qualify, but no matter, have appt for Wed 
).
That's the first two, the primary course, to establish immunity in the first place. That then fades over time and they have now seen it has faded considerably by 5-6 months, In immunosuppressed patients, like us, it requires the 3rd primary to get the immunity level up to the same as was achieved in healthy subjects with the first two jabs. In the UK they were adamant you couldn't book your booster until at least 6 months after the second jab. Then they got some figures - and you could book the booster after 5 months. Every country is different - Italy is still on 6 months I think. I was actually 7 months by the time I got the 3rd/booster jab - but there wasn't any plan to give immunosuppressed a third primary here.
Right. And I don't know what the interval between those two doses was in the UK, or whether most people got A-Z.
Now they are telling us 168 days, but they decided that after hubby had made his six month appt, so I'm actually getting my third shot a few days before him, instead of after. We are in different age groups. I tried to change his appt, but the hundreds of times available in the morning when I booked mine were ALL gone when I thought of it in late afternoon. All those 60 year olds, plus children between 5-11 on Christmas break must have snaffled them up. Thank goodness I booked before the announcement.
I've posted further down but all boosters are now 3months post primary dose.
It's different everywhere. Canada tends to lag because we observe what happens in US and UK.
To add to Coffeebeans comment: it has been found that after 6 months the protective effect of 2 doses of the Pfizer vaccine against the Omicron variant has fallen to 10%. Adding a 3rd jab takes it back up to approx. 70+%. Since the current concern is protection against Omicron - the boosters have been brought forward.
T'would make no difference to me as I'm old enough that I'm eligible for third shot already. Would only have made a difference if omicron had arrived much earlier in my six month gap. It's a moving target and every day it seems matters change. It's all very well to say everyone should get their third vaccine like yesterday, but this is simply not possible. There are not enough people to do the vaccinations instantly. I like the age based approach as it does give the aged a chance to get their booster before the younger people grab all the appointment slots. The alternative is standing in line outside at a pop-up clinic.
And what about the billions around the world not yet vaccinated at all?
Also, it's possible omicron is actually what we want. Just another cold, not a killer.
"what about the billions around the world not yet vaccinated at all"
Exactly - made worse by selfish countries hogging the available vaccines and not making sure those approaching their expiry date are used up. There is nothing more true than "No-one is safe until everyone is safe". But people want "fun" and "freedom" and "normality" - so their governments chase the vaccines instead of persuading them to use the other measures as well. and with a bit of luck omicron is at least more flu-like, even if it isn't just a cold.
We wore N95 masks all the time on the train, except when shut in our cabin. On the way out we even ate in our room. But returning and not heading towards a household with a non-vaccinated toddler, we ate in the dining car, where we were well spaced. Outward journey a bit stressful as a small number of people persisted in sitting in the wifi area with cups of coffee as excuse to be unmasked. Return journey much better, I felt much safer. We also were able to make use of free rapid tests. However I don't know if those detect omicron, which was not an issue when we left home but is becoming more of a concern now.
Me too Paddy (except that I had my third primary on 23 October.) I do hope they bring our boosters forward at some point, as three primary doses for us was meant to approximate to two for a healthy person……so we do need the boosters I think x
Agreed!
Hi
With the press release last week all booster doses have been reduced from 6months to 3months after the primary course.
I'm due for my booster now as I had my third primary dose 3 months ago. My GP is aware and will book me in.
Not heard anything from my GP although I had my 3rd jab three months ago. Do you know whether there’s a specific dose of Pred which causes the immunosuppressive effect? I’m currently on 7mg so am wondering whether that is too low a dose. I’m so confused 🤔
Don't think they know to be honest - but they did assume that above 7mg and above qualified you as immunosuppressed I think.
Thank you. In view of the fact that the cardiologist while I was in hospital thinks that the PMR could have affected my heart, I think I’ll contact the GP surgery tomorrow and try to find out the current situation.
In what way? My atrial fibrillation is considered to have been caused by the a/i part of PMR having damaged the sinus node.
That’s what I don’t yet know! Angiogram was fine but question mark over ECG and Echo which was why consultant has now considered PMR and has referred me to Rheumatology Dept. I’ve had verapamil tripled so slow heart but BP still high. Unfortunately, with Covid it takes so long to get appointment.
The BP may be high just because of white coat syndrome and your worry! I had a cardio appt on Friday as well as a pacemaker check on Tuesday The second doctor decided to worry about my BP - I told her it is never that high taken at home! And since then I;ve been checking it - nothing untoward. Well worth having your own BP cuff and checking it a few times a day in peace and quiet.
Was there ever a followup to that early research indicating pred dampened immunity to covid at any level? Here you have to have taken 20 mg or more for at least two weeks to be eligible for third dose or early booster, but at least they are now paying attention to the needs of severely immune compromised people, especially cancer and transplant patients. Also people who are double vaxxed with A-Z are among those prioritized. Janssen as well, but that was never actually used in NS. And people who received their first two doses very close together.
No idea to be honest - but the dose to be immunocompromised is lower I think. Doesn't apply here - my GP got us onto the equivalent of a vulnerable list. Rang me when there were spare appointments at the end of the 80 year olds' weeks to ask if I wanted a jab. Silly question! That was Friday, I was called on Sat morning and offered an appointment for Monday. I asked if OH could have one too since he was probably more vulnerable than I was, no problem, the next time slot.
My third jab I turned up at an open clinic 7 months after the second jab. I don't know if they have shortened any intervals here but they are having a mega jab session all weekend - going like wildfire! People want their Super Green Pass to be able to do things. But there are other measures ongoing with the possibility of stricter ones if the figures change again which is more than likely.
The national recommendation is, I believe, to give everyone over 18 a third shot, but logistics mean they simply can't do that all at once in my province. As I've probably already mentioned they can't keep up with the 5 to 11s, let alone everyone over 60 as of yesterday, plus front line workers who had their first vaccines close together. I imagine the immune compromised, like the over 80s, have mostly received their boosters by now. There is no issue with supply, but a shortage of workers.
Recently a university had a big celebratory gathering and now nearly everyone at the uni is isolating and there are well over a hundred, maybe hundreds, positive cases, all mild. Everyone testing positive so far is double vaxxed. It's thought the infection originated with guests. It's a small town and all the restaurants, etc, who had been looking forward to a more normal holiday season have overnight lost nearly all their business, plus the outbreak appears already to have spread to the capital, where I live. Haven't heard which variant it is.
Spreading that fast sounds very omicron-ish. There is far more omicron than is admitted, because the symptoms are so mild after the jabs, people aren't recognising it. And so they aren't keeping away from others.
I am booked in for a booster 8th January. Had third primary vaccine in October this year.
That's very interesting. I had my 3rd primary in September, before the software was able to identify it as different from the booster so my records just say booster. I wrote to my GP a few days ago to ask whether the records could be corrected and when I would be due a booster. I was on 15mg of Pred when I had my second jab in March but I also have hypogammaglobulinaemia so I am immunocompromised and I suspect that was what qualified me for the third primary vax.
The thing is, I think a lot of us didn’t have our third dose until well into October - so our boosters aren’t due until late January. I wonder how significant this is in terms of protection- I guess we’re all different, depending on meds and underlying conditions 🧘♀️
I'm rather puzzled about this booster - 3rd, 4th, 5th??? Where does it end?
Think I'll just hibernate till this dratted pandemic is over. Must stock up on Sambuca!😂💥👵🏻
Negroni or Campari would be my choice 🥂😊
I think not every country is the same - but in the UK we immunocompromised people were offered a’third primary’ vaccination, to be followed by a booster…
We've had three Pfizer's. No doubt we'll be told when to have a booster (if at all)!
I think it is very likely there will be at least an annual booster, just like the flu to accommodate mutations. Unless they can develop a different type of vaccine but that could be years away - although it is already underway.
It's just terminology Constance - the UK decided to give 3rd primary doses to immunocompromised patients which allowed them to have a third earlier than they would have been entitled to a booster. The rest of us started later and here didn't make the same differentiation about the immunocompromised - don't think Germany did either. As I say - I just keep taking the same precautions as I did last winter though not quite lockdown level. Wouldn't go anywhere inside without a mask - but I'm not allowed anyway. But I have just ordered a new mobility card and will use the train - they are pretty much empty here anyway! Not sure how I'd feel in the UK or Germany with the infection rates though,
Not very happy (the infections rate)! We are 'almost' self isolating. Only go out when really necessary - to the doctor's or dentists, etc.
How's life? No doubt you are kept busy on the forums so don't get too down (lonely). Keep safe!
Lfr C 💐🍀
Just about to go for a walk - absolutely glorious day!!!! Bit parky mind at about -3C as the highest temp for the day, was -12C this morning
We're not doing so bad - mostly +something during the day -in the night.
Well, I've just checked Worldometer, and despite burgeoning case counts and apparent declining immunity, the death rate has plummeted since vaccinations.
Really? All we here about is doom and death!!!
In an interview in der Spiegel on Thursday, the founder of Biontech (who partnered with Pfizer in the development of their jab) announced that a 4th dose will be necessary for all. He added that the reason there are so many and increasing cases is that not enough people have been vaccinated, and that those who are, need far more doses. Maybe some of you who have had adverse reactions (or even no reaction) are thinking what I'm thinking. I'll say no more, but refer you to Einstein's definition of insanity.
Viruses mutate - it is what they are born to do. And when there are a lot of cases - they are more likely to mutate. Especially if a lot of people catch it and the infection lasts a long time because they are immunocompromised - which is why SA has been the source of at least 2 concerning mutants.
It is spreading so much not only because people haven't been jabbed - but also because they are mixing in close proximity without masks. Here in Italy the vaccination rate in much of the country is high and the infections rate remains low. In my region it is lower - and the infections are increasing, Not as much as elsewhere I admit but still risking another lockdown.
I'm worried about the BioNTech fellow's thoughts, because we have, for example Gibralter with 100% of the population double jabbed and a good many more boostered, and they still have (or recently had) very high numbers of cases. I understand the difficulties with variants, but fear there's a kind of endless treadmill ahead of us with no way out. This isn't an attractive prospect to those for whom each jab is a kind of Russian roulette with their underlying illness.
Anyway, this is kind of off-topic.
Not really - very relevant to most people with a/i illness or on the wrong drugs. No-one - except some government personages and the UK (in particular) media - ever suggested vaccines where the perfect answer. But they have saved a LOT of lives - and made life for my daughters rather less awful. One is a nurse who worked on the Covid ICU and the other works in A&E now, was an on-the-road paramedic before.
Read this interesting article from the news channel here in the US, CNN. It's an interview with Michael Osterholm, PhD, MPH, American epidemiologist on how he predicted 800,000 US deaths from Covid-19 in April 2020. At the time of the interview there has been 793,000 deaths. cnn.com/2021/12/09/opinions...
Just a couple of points:1. I was booked for a booster at 6 month point. Turned up and explained had not yet had 3rd jab and gave them my PRED and MTX cards. Was provided with a jab, BUT: it was listed as my 3rd primary as I had had my AZ 1st and 2nd; was .5ml Moderna when booster (for wife and others) was .25ml Moderna; and I am booked for booster in May, which may come around sooner due to various changes in UK health system. I continue to take it very carefully, especially when other people about, but fortunately live in a rural village.
2. CEO of Pfizer has - unhelpfully (and rubbing his hands with glee) - already suggested that there will need to be annual doses of the vaccine to ensure protection. To say that this was unfortunate timing, even if true, is just sheer financial arrogance especially as it is built on the back of taxpayers' investment for private company returns.
No-one seems to have a problem about annual boosters for flu. Required because flu changes - mutates. So why isn't it reasonable to expect the same for Covid? In fact, some experts were already forecasting that a minimum of 3 jabs would be required for the primary course - also not the only vaccine that requires that - and that at least annual boosters were likely a year ago,
Actually I agree that we shall all need boosters annually. What was sad was the way in which said CEO was clearly anticipating boosted income on basis of this requirement without consideration of 'health', and the potential for private rather than public investment in what is already a private industry!Being immunocompromised, living carefully two years on, no prospect of re-employment, all seems rather a dud hand when there could still be so much to offer.
The man only speaks to his shareholders - and that is slightly more acceptable surely than one's government boosting their friends' businesses?
Indeed so, if it had happened to be a shareholder forum and not a public interview. Sadly, UK government is the pits, though NHS doing their level best to help us all along this very rocky path and I, for one, am immensely grateful for the care with which they have supported me personally (as well as family and friends) during last few years.
Covid Vaccine information 
PMR after Covid vaccine?
COVID Vaccine question
PMR and Covid vaccine
