Microbiome Community in overdrive! Read on if you... - PMRGCAuk

PMRGCAuk

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Microbiome Community in overdrive! Read on if you're a fan of Tim Specter and Mary Berry!! And be warned......

MamaBeagle profile image

I dutifully log in to the Zoe Covid app and have become a fan of Tim Specter with his other hat on - that of Gut Health. From advice on here I've done ,well, not quite my best to follow a low carb diet if I'm honest.

So when Mary Berry made her Nordic seed and nut loaf with almost no carbs and full of the seeds and nuts to feed one's microbiome community I thought it was perfect for the low carb and gut health.

I made it and it is delicious, I had a slice with smoked salmon, next day with cheese and the following day with marmite (or if down under vegemite), I know you've either got the marmite gene or you haven't.

The results of this trial is that, sadly and very inconveniently, that now 4 days later my microbiome community is in turmoil and gone into overdrive! I won't now go into any graphic detail but will leave it to your imaginations.

Conclusion of this trial - eat this loaf in moderation! But it is delicious if you like nuts and seeds and it is very low carb .........and very filling!

63 Replies

How interesting! Thanks for sharing. I really miss that kind of texture. I imagine that your gut will settle you know.

I'm hoping so SJ as at the moment I'm not venturing far from the comfort station!!!

😊

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador

Um - Tim surely??

You didn't try the alternative version, substituting figs for the dates? Which I suspect may be part of the problem ...

MamaBeagle profile image
MamaBeagle in reply to PMRpro

ooops! I was trying so hard not to do that!

MamaBeagle profile image
MamaBeagle in reply to PMRpro

Can I edit? if so how!!

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to MamaBeagle

Click on More at the bottom of your post, drop down menu offering options.

Did you see my addition to my comment? ;)

MamaBeagle profile image
MamaBeagle in reply to PMRpro

I just have. I used cranberries 😏

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to MamaBeagle

You'd have thought that would be less dramatic ;) Did you use fresh ones? I just picked up some reduced in price - not particularly popular here so lord only knows why the supermarkets stock them for Thanksgiving!

MamaBeagle profile image
MamaBeagle in reply to PMRpro

Dried ones! And Phil refuses to be edited 😠. I've pressed more, made the changes and then post or enter and neither make the change 🤷...

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to MamaBeagle

How bizarre!

MamaBeagle profile image
MamaBeagle in reply to PMRpro

Many apologies to Tim!

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to MamaBeagle

You never know - he may be flattered ...

MamaBeagle profile image
MamaBeagle in reply to PMRpro

Only if he prefers Phil to Tim AND has never heard of THE Phil Spector 🙄🤣

MamaBeagle profile image
MamaBeagle in reply to PMRpro

Done it!!! I was hitting Post at the bottom. I saw there was a post button at top, hit that Bingo...I think. Is it because there is a big Italian community in US that Thanksgiving has travelled across the pond- and the Med?

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to MamaBeagle

Hadn't thought of that. We use lingonberries/Preiselbeeren in jam here a lot and they are basically mini-cranberries. Never sure how much US habits derived from here - after all, US pizza is from another world!!!

MamaBeagle profile image
MamaBeagle in reply to PMRpro

Edited, thank you 👍😊

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to MamaBeagle

Still coming up as Phil ...

MamaBeagle profile image
MamaBeagle in reply to PMRpro

Oh ...blow 🙄

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to MamaBeagle

Very strange - did you click Edit hard enough?

MrsNails profile image
MrsNailsPMRGCAuk volunteer

Oh Dear MamaBeagle……Hope all returns to normal very soon 🙏🏼

MamaBeagle profile image
MamaBeagle in reply to MrsNails

Thank you MrsN xx

As a PMR high fibre nut and seed eating vegetarian I think that mixing cheese and marmite (yeast) in with all those seeds and nuts for 3 days in a row might prove to be somewhat explosive! Hope you get over it fast.

MamaBeagle profile image
MamaBeagle in reply to Seacat30

I didn't have all that on the same day, apologies I gave that impression. I had a slice, thin, each day, and each day a different topping.

I saw MB make this and it looked lovely - but it did make me think in moderation might be key. Perhaps she should have given out a warning!! Think in MB’s household it would have been shared among the family so only a piece each. Hope things settle down for you soon.

MamaBeagle profile image
MamaBeagle in reply to Telian

I think you're probably right. It was 1 or 2 slices a day for the two of us over 3 days! It could be a bug of course, though where from? Triple jabbed 2 Az's and a Pfizer booster. I've just done a Covid test to be sure it's not that as squits are some of the newer symptoms, but tested negative. Upside is I'll lose a couple of pounds!!!

Telian profile image
Telian in reply to MamaBeagle

It’s probably a combination of things - I had a bad reaction to the booster. Hopefully you’ll start to feel better soon and the weight loss is a sweetener!

Vegemite was originally marketed as Pamite in Oz. 😄

I saw this recipe but for anyone with a sensitive gut it would be disasterous! I can't eat any of the ingredients alas. I used to love making different breads but now can only eat white.

MamaBeagle profile image
MamaBeagle in reply to diana1998

Leave well alone,I say! Perhaps I'm finding that my gut is sensitive too🤔. I'm on the mend now and hoping to have lost a couple of pounds...there must be some pay off 🤷

I'm intrigued, where can I see this recipe?

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to Sophiestree

I googled it:

bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/nord...

Other links are available ...

Interestingly, I have just been googling things to do with cranberries and found a warning that ingesting relatively large amounts can result in GI effects in many people ...

MamaBeagle profile image
MamaBeagle in reply to PMRpro

That's interesting about cranberries. But there are v few in this recipe don't you think! After an awful night I think I'm on the mend now. Not fancying g any seed and nut loaf mind you😂!

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to MamaBeagle

Can't imagine why not!!!

MamaBeagle profile image
MamaBeagle in reply to PMRpro

🤣🤣🤣

but loves dates

Sophiestree profile image
Sophiestree in reply to PMRpro

thanks for that... I may give it a go.I have never been a huge fan of cranberries....

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to Sophiestree

I like them dried in a mix with cashews I get here and I got some fresh ones to experiment yesterday. And I do like cranberry sauce although I think the local Preiselbeeren version is better, If I could be bothered I could fancy a muffin ;)

Sophiestree profile image
Sophiestree in reply to PMRpro

If I could be bothered 😂 so get that

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to Sophiestree

I look at a recipe - and if there are too many ingredients I lose interest!!!! Someone write a cookery book with recipes with not more than 5 ingredients ,,,

Sophiestree profile image
Sophiestree in reply to PMRpro

Oh yes, totally agree. I don't even go there. Too boring.

I am surprised a nutrition guru would recommend such a food to older people . Many older folk, self included, have diverticulitis or diverticulosis, or we are at a higher risk for developing it. Plus, and this is my experience; PMR/GCA also causes an inflamed gut, which can be sensitive to seeds and nuts. Eating such a bread would risk a pretty serious attack for me. Right now I am doing well, and after decades dealing with the issue, I have it under control. I take Align, a probiotic, a few times a week, eat a lot of fresh fruit, and avoid seeds, nuts and corn per doctors strict instructions. Nope, sounds delicious, but not for me.

MamaBeagle profile image
MamaBeagle in reply to phebamom

I don't have any diagnosed gut problem but nuts and especially the seeds are new to me. However I must make it clear that neither Tim Specter nor Mary Berry are recommending anything to anyone of any age.

Oh dear, I do feel for you and was in a not dissimilar condition last week without the benefit of a new recipe! If it is any comfort, I lost 3/4 pounds and now down to a weight not known since my 20's! I use dried cranberries in home made muesli mix. Not that bothered with them but they add variety!

I tested negative, too. There seem to be a lot of all singing, all dancing, fit me in where you can symptoms!

Thank you for the humour with which you tell your tale.

😊

Thankyou. I am truly now wondering if it's a bug. Did yours just go without any specific treatment? I have been introducing nuts and seeds to promote but health but suppose I have gone a bit Gung-ho with them. So who knows?

I thought mine might have been a bug but then suspected food poisoning. No treatment other than paracetamol for awful headaches, loads of water and rest. Warm water with a slice of lemon would have been preferred, but the storm put paid to the 'warm' bit for a couple of days! Coincided with quite a flare of pmr - first one for quite some time. Still a bit weak, but picking up now.Too many generic symptoms around these days to be clear what is what!

And how long did you have to stay close to "the facilities" 48 hours for me almost to the minute🙁

I was close - didn't really get out of bed for 3 days apart from loo - very near!

Sounds similar my predicament!

I have recently become interested in my gut health. Took my last pPrednisone Feb 1, 2020. My PMR seemed to be mended. In August 2020 I started with constant loose stools. It interrupted my life because I hesitated leaving home. I thought it was temporary…not so. I tried everything….never concerned about my gut. Now I realize it is probably loss of gut biome. I am just now experimenting with diet…sauerkraut in salt brine daily…..just a couple of tablespoons. Activia yogurt, fruit, etc. How long before the good gut bacteria are populating in my gut?

MamaBeagle profile image
MamaBeagle in reply to Gary1310

I know how you feel!

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to Gary1310

If it were me I'd add a really good probiotic to speed things up. VSL#3 is recommended by a good GI specialist in the N of England - and it seems to do a good job.

MamaBeagle profile image
MamaBeagle in reply to PMRpro

Thanks, Pro

Sorry to hear of your gut woes.

When I presented with PMR symptoms my GP said "we need to look at what might be causing inflammatory problems" so among other things I had an assay of my gut microbiome. The assay showed an overgrowth of a few "bad" species. I went on this treatment and diet regime in June 2019. Out with the old, in with the new (in 2 cycles)

Picoprep (has the same effect as your nut loaf I suspect) for 2 days

Weeks 1,3 Amox SR 500mg three times a day (slow release Amoxicillin)

Weeks 2,4 Multigen 2 daily, Mutaflor 2 daily

None of these: no pasta, no rice, no bread, no fruits, no seeds, no nuts, no sugar, no cakes, no alcohol, no processed food, no ice cream, no coffee or caffeinated tea, no root veges (potatoes, pumpkin, squash, carrots, beetroot, kumara, parsnip), no fermented food (eg soya sauce), no tomatoes, no coconut, no carbonated soft drinks, no beans (chick peas, kidney beans, etc)

Enjoy these: cabbage, cauliflower, broccoli, kale, spinach, leafy greens, lettuce, radish, cucumber, eggplant, courgette, capsicums, onions, garlic, celery, asparagus. Veges at all means and eat 6 to 10 different types per week

Allowed for protein: eggs, fish, dairy, meat, chicken, olive oil

That Nordic seed and nut loaf would definitely not be on my gut biome rebuild menu. 😃 I don't have the gene for Marmite or Vegemite although I am from a -mite country.

After a year I was slowly allowed to start back on coffee and tea, and fruit and nuts. I didn't have sugar or alcohol or cakes or soft drinks before the change so it wasn't as big a shift as you might expect. I missed fresh fruit the most! Note the no sugar means no dried fruit of any sort as they contain way too much sugar. I'm now allowed a little bit of brown rice and kumara if it is cooked and then cooled. And I can have soya sauce, and a small piece of banana. Not that I have them together. 😜

Some day I hope to do a follow up gut microbiome assay, but Covid-19 meant waiting because my fresh poo had to be couriered over to Melbourne. It would be a waste of money and resources to have it spoil along the way because the supply chains are so messed up. But I don't feel like we have completed the experiment.

MamaBeagle profile image
MamaBeagle in reply to pata63

Wow amazing treatment! All the things I love are on your None list! I testing stuff.

Gary1310 profile image
Gary1310 in reply to pata63

Did your Doctor think the gut problem was the cause of PMR?…. Did your Doctor think the PMR caused the gut problem?

pata63 profile image
pata63 in reply to Gary1310

I don't know of any properly designed scientific research which can enlighten us as to which way the causal arrow points. That doesn't mean it isn't out there. There are many other potential causes in the mix as well. My doctor also had me see a psychologist and do a life stress inventory over the previous 5 years which showed the level of stress I had been under. That scale is correlated with health problems, but once again correlation isn't causation.

I do believe that if one finds a problem (overgrowth of some unwanted gut species) then that is worth addressing this, as the potential benefits outweigh the costs in my situation. Thus I was happy to try. The diet also fits with low carb diets which are recommended to avoid weight gain while on Prednisone.

HeronNS profile image
HeronNS in reply to pata63

Intrigued to see pumpkin and squash regarded as root vegetables. Is it their carb content which makes them a no-no?

pata63 profile image
pata63 in reply to HeronNS

I think it was the carbs. It could also be that cucurbits were to be avoided for a certain period of time before the assay, not for 2 years. I never quite got to the bottom of where the lines were drawn and why.

Hello I've been listening to Tim Spectre and all his information about gut Health and I wish I had a better set of data or research so we could correlate that it helps this condition but so far I haven't been able to find out within the group that improving gut health with take care of the PMR issues... obviously to stay healthy and keep away from some of the foods is definitely a good idea ..I have tried many dietary suggestions/ changes and I have found for me its hasen't helped me so far ...does anybody else have any comments on this?

MamaBeagle profile image
MamaBeagle in reply to nickmits

The Zoe App is primarily for Git health I believe. I'm not sure if here is any specific connection to PMR. Perhaps if you join the app and pay a subscription, that's for the gut health side of things from what I can make out. How you get your microbiome community tested....I don't know.

Gary1310 profile image
Gary1310 in reply to MamaBeagle

Thank you for the info.

HI-- thanks..I know how -- I tried it-- its Called VIOME--- its quite good! But I dont think it will help me much-- I will try anything.

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