I thought I'd share this very thought provoking article in case it may be useful to anyone facing an "I'm alright Jack" attitude from friends or family about getting their Covid jabs.
It really isn't about "you" - if you claim "Rights" they come with "Responsibilities", it isn't just about your liberty - it's about everyone else's too.
Now we are at a stage where most people who are dying had not had their jabs. Refusing to get the vaccine is a bit like playing Russian roulette every time you go out amongst other people. The delta variant is now known to be a risk even outdoors.
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PMRpro
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Thought provoking (even though it’s in the Guardian) 😉
I had a horrified message from my younger sister the other sharing a Tweet of gendarmes in Paris checking people outside a cafe for their health pass.
We went on to have a short discussion where her civil liberties and right to not get vaccinated la la la were mentioned. I feel on the back foot with her as i don't want to lose what small amount of sisterhood I have BUT......I told her that I wouldn't be able to hug her if and when we go over. I told her it had made me cry to realise that.
He estranged SiL died in March 2020 of Covid....I am not sure what she's done with that information.
She has flown 6 times since August 2020.
"We had a party in May, went to two last weekend, all mixing and usual hug greeting with everyone, none of them concerned about hugging the unvaccinated!
We’ve been to the beach, Leeds Castle days out with the boys, restaurants. Hardly anyone wearing masks (as they don’t work anyway)."
"If social distancing works - why do we need masks? If masks work - why do we need lockdowns? If lockdowns work - why do we need a vaccine? If the vaccine works - why are people double jabbed in hospital with C19?"
I am at a loss now and after the hurt of her lack of concern for others am now feeling angry. If and when we head over to UK I will not go and visit and won't even mention it.
I am running a high temperature this weekend, a repeat of the same thing 7 days ago. Have booked a Covid test at the urging of my daughter, it's not until 24/08. I will isolate until then.
The article expresses what I think. Masks do work - just not 100%. Vaccine work, just not 100%, distancing works, just not 100%. So you use all the layers available and each increases the level of protection overall. Why do we still need lockdowns? Because there are people who seem unable to keep a few basic rules.
I don't feel in the least bothered about having an ID card - it is so much simpler than using utilities bills and the like when I need ID for something. After all, no-one expects to go on holiday abroad without a passport - where's the difference? Nor am I bothered about being stopped by the police and asked for my driving documents - I have nothing to hide, I have a licence, I have insurance. I'd rather they caught the people who don't feel a social responsibility to be accountable when they cause an accident.
Darwinism in full flow - but they put others at risk because SOME people CAN'T have the vaccine or it doesn't work as well for them for medical reasons. It makes me SO angry ...
Here! Here! With the information that is readily available...and the numbers of infections and deaths climbing in the US.....how anyone can not see the logic is beyond me...and I don't think they are equipped to be swayed by intelligent facts. DUH!
Spent some time contemplating all the comments here to see if I could possibly understand the rationale of anti-vaxxers and somehow 'feel' their indignation and objection, and the answer is unsurprisingly, a big fat NO! I definitely can't. Like you, I have absolutely nothing to hide and showing some kind of ID as proof of vaccination to enter certain establishments or venues would make me feel safer and more protected against any new mutated strains that will inevitably occur whilst ever there are unvaccinated people wandering about.
I remember reading that a virus's only aim is to 'thrive & survive'. The only way it can do that is to keep mutating and the only way it can mutate is by being repeatedly transmitted from one person to another. So on an individual level, you may have it but feel ok or be asymptomatic but you can still transmit it to others and each transmission is giving the virus the opportunity to mutate.... possibly into another deadly strain that wouldn't yet be covered by our current vaccines. If this happens then we're right back to where we started.
Sometimes we can't always necessarily do exactly what we want to do and for me, this is one of those times. A local beauty therapist has posted on her website that she'll still be imposing strict safety protocols, so only customers who are doubly vaccinated, are wearing a mask and who use the hand sanitiser will be allowed into her salon. She's experienced lots of online abuse and criticism as a result but has stuck to her principles and said , her salon, her rules! I completely applaud her.
Agree fully. We have always had ID cards in Belgium. When I lived in London I had to proof that with other documents to be able to bring my waste to the dump.
Funny that!!! Been similar here in places I think. The other major success in our region have been the Impfbusse - busses set up as mobile vaccine clinics which sit in the middle of a village and you can turn up for the first jab and they go back to the same place 3 or 4 weeks later depending on which jab was being used that day to give the second. Particularly good for the remote places where getting to a hospital clinic wasn't easy.
This was to be a response to PMRPRO but i did not send it correctly. 🤔I have friends from my church who will not wear a mask even though we are advised by local government and church leaders to do so. So I attend church via Zoom. As an old nurse I have little compassion for those who think they are exercising THEIR freedom. I want to ask them why they cannot love others and exercise caution. I never would have guessed I would be someone who thinks people often deserve what they get.....but I have become that person. I had Covid in December and still have problems from it....I have Covid burn out I guess. My tolerance has diminished and I don't like how it makes me feel!
This just proves to me just how successfully the governments have implemented the ‘divide and rule’ strategy. There are so many divided families and strained friendships all because they have conflicting opinions … of which they have a right to have.
The queries made by your sister I think are quite valid - I’ve pondered these myself, but have now found that it’s best not to try to share my opinions with others and have learned to keep quiet.
I think it is really sad that you would feel too angry to visit your sister because of her views. Surely a masked hug would be better than none at all and will maybe help to keep harmony in the family?!
You can blame the government for a lot, but not sure “families falling out” is their fault.
Agree 100%. My daughter has just had to close her hairdressers shop yet again due to one of her girls being an anti-vaxer. She caught the virus and now very poorly. That will teach her. I was concerned as my daughter has been around her, myself and my husband who as you know are vulnerable. He with his CKD and type 1 diabetes and myself being on steroids. I hope she gets better soon and takes up the jab. This was two weeks ago and happily us and daughter all good. Daughter did catch it in the early months, so her antibodies will protect her, but she has had both jabs too.
Listening to the radio this morning there was an American Evangelical preacher on, screaming at the congregation not to wear masks and not to have vaccines as it was some sort of abomination. They were interviewing people who were anti vaxers. I am not sure you could ever convince them to have a vaccine.
I wish I could read their minds. I occasionally argue with my anti vax friends who announced recently that CNN had said that vaccinations were not necessary. As CNN had, the same day, fired three people who had not had a vaccine but pretended they had, I doubt it somehow.
Don’t even get me started. My husband and stepfather who live with me, are not getting the vaccine. Even though I am immunocompromised, even though step dad already had Covid and I got it and he was in ICU for 5 days and hospital for over a week, even though our brother in law died of Covid!
And as each restriction and mandates emerge, we have less and less we can do together (travel, etc). I also lost a friend who insisted on sending me conspiracy stuff from her FB feed, and a falling out with my aunt who gets all her info off of social media (we’ve since agreed to disagree).
Easiest to not have many conversations about it as it causes so much division and high emotions, none of which is good for my PMR. I do, however, anticipate continued measures and protocols than unvaccinated people will not like. Even in Canada it’s a patchwork set of guidelines with some provinces refusing vaccine passports and others embracing them. The silos continue to grow sadly.
In the end I can control my choices (to be fully vaccinated), for myself and my community. I realize not all will be on the same page. If I was unvaccinated now…I’d be petrified of getting this virus as it has been clearly documented on many countries, that the virus is infecting unvaccinated (younger) folks and children who cannot be vaccinated.
What a difficult position you're in. Such conflicting opinions are bound to be stressful. All you can do is behave in whatever way you seem fit in order to continue minimising your chances of becoming ill again.
I am thankful that both guys always follow protocols like distancing, masking, etc. and aren’t “anti” anything (vaccine, mask, etc). Rather vaccine hesitant due to a pretty severe reaction my sister in law had to a previous vaccine. So at least I don’t have to listen to theories that are not founded in science and inflammatory.
You are right about not discussing it with the anti folk....it would only result in bad feelings and likely a headache...like hitting your head against a wall....save your energy for more useful things.
Morning, I have a similar situation at home. At the moment our DIL and partner/boyfriend are living with us, have been for a while now whilst DIL gets her new house in a liveable condition, both in their 30's she is fully vaccinated and has been as soon as she could get it, he refuses, he has just come back from a weeks holiday and a family wedding. To say I am unhappy would be an understatement but to push it further would mean a major family diplomatic crisis. I was mulling it over this morning whilst walking the beasties and took my blood pressure later, as usual - it was so high I'm not recording it - will take it again later when I'm sure it will have settled down a bit.😔
When a child I heard someone say, or maybe I read it, that my right to clench my fist ends where your nose begins. Which I immediately understood to mean our actions should never harm others. In this case the lack of action can harm others.
If they were the people who were quarantined in their houses, I wouldn't be so bothered if they didn't get the shots. But the reverse is true: the responsible people are staying home and the depraved are in charge.
Same everywhere I suspect. My neighbour downstairs had Covid back in the winter - I was downstairs in the garage when he appeared down there. When it was mentioned at the condominium meeting he argued he had to come down to get food. So either he walked down the stairs and I could have met him or he used the lift, even worse.
Unfortunately, we've got the influx of the Hamptons Day Trippers and the vacationers coming in from who knows where carrying who knows what. The town beach is sparsely populated as usual, but town is cheek-by-jowel, as usual for this time of year. Southampton is a really small town, which is why we generally avoid it during The Season. Last summer and this, we've avoided it "like the plague".
Third shot approved in USA on Friday. I'm scheduled for my third Pfizer shot at 5PM today. I'm not waiting for anything or anyone, especially after having been treated to a tirade by a bare-faced lunatic while in a parking lot picking up an order from the fishmonger's shop. My guess is he just got chased out of town, where masks have been mandatory indoors and on the street since March 2020.
There's no end to the depth of the crazies in this country.
It's like online abuse - what on earth makes them think they have any right at all to behave like that? If I want to wear a mask - that is up to me. And there is a greater need since people like them aren't ...
I maintain that third doses should be reserved for those definitely in need of protection - I don't believe that includes ppl like me who despite much complaining on this forum am in not bad health except for needing pred for PMR. There will be plenty of forum members with comorbidities or even greater age whose need is undeniable. It will be very interesting to see what the result is of the US deciding to give third doses to people. It would make me feel more secure if the US were working all out to get vaccines to other countries - not denigrating their generosity so far, but they could actually do a great deal more. I thought as the discussion about possible boosters is heating up in countries which have good basic vaccination rates ppl might be interested in this article:
We protect ouselves by stamping out covid wherever we can. They put us at risk if they remain unprotected. Look at the delta variant, bred in the petrie dish of India. And we have put on our safety gear - two doses as the manufacturer says. I'll happily accept a booster if they develop one which is more effective against whatever variants are in the pipeline.
Yeah, that sounds nice and all, but I know that I am way more effective at raising funds, recruiting qualified personnel, planning logistics and exerting political pressure when I'm feeling fit and fine.
Sadly not one person on this thread has expressed any concern about the creeping menace of totalitarianism. Of course, as a society we must do all we can to halt the spread of Covid but at the same time we should be aware of converging socioeconomic factors that, when combined with 5G technology will almost certainly be used to promote an agenda decided by an unelected elite.
Are we all so blinded by the 24/7 propaganda campaign that we can’t see what’s coming? Are we so fearful that we will allow the government to control every aspect of our lives in order to feel ‘safe’?
In my opinion we need to step back and reflect on the lessons from the past, especially from Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia, and consider whether that’s where we are heading. There will be no going back and no one to liberate us,
It seems to me the elected elite are managing quite well. And people being vaccinated to save other people's lives is hardly Nazi-like. But let Covid run rampant and do nothing about climate change and it won't matter anyway - we won't be here to worry
Thank goodness …. someone with an alternative view! Everything you say is credible and I agree with every word. But be aware …. you’re going to be labelled as a conspiracy theorist now.
I wonder, if all those refusing the vaccine, would also refuse treatment if they caught Covid. Clearly not as the majority of those hospitalised have not been vaccinated.
I see this post has LOTS of comments and rightly so.I have a cousin in the U.S (I have never met her). She recently Messaged me with a long diatribe about why we shouldn't be vaccinated. She is now in hospital, begging for prayers because she is scared and in hospital with Covid.
I wonder why they don't see that the vaccine is a gift from their god in answer to prayers? Reminds me of the joke about the devout adherent who asked god to let him win the lottery - but god pointed out he had to do his bit and buy a lottery ticket ...
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