A reminder about Covid and our behaviour and why ...

[PMRpro]

I know, you are all thinking "Misery guts is back!" But two articles in the Guardian today underline why we need to be just as careful as we were this time last year - whether we have had both jabs or not since we don't know how effective the jabs are for us.

theguardian.com/world/2021/...

Last year we were told you had to be close to someone for several minutes before you were at real risk of catching Covid from them. The Delta variant has changed all that - it looks as if even a very fleeting contact at the wrong moment is all it may take to pass it on.

And if you have young people around you - that's where the current problem is as they are still getting their jabs. And until 2 weeks after their second jab they remain at risk. Even when you have had both jabs, you are not 100% protected, 1 in 20 will still get Covid, albeit less seriously. However - there are people who have had both jabs who have caught it and still died.

theguardian.com/world/2021/...

Keep wearing your masks and avoid larger groups. It isn't until over 80% of the entire population has had both jabs that herd immunity will be achieved - it won't be that long. We got this far - don't lets spoil it by being impatient.

[Highlandtiger]

Yep. And Andrew Marr was saying today that he’d developed quite an unpleasant case of Covid despite being double vaccinated (he thinks he got it at the G7 in Cornwall but that’s another story - according to the government the steep rise in numbers in Cornwall was absolutely nothing to do with the G7...🤔). Keep at it everyone.

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to Highlandtiger]

No, of COURSE it wasn't. Must have been the natives who'd selfishly decided to go on holiday ...

[Longtimer in reply to Highlandtiger]

Yes, read that too.....must still be careful....

[Grammy80 in reply to Highlandtiger]

....so says the spin doctor! Ridulous...they are counting on people NOT thinking.

I still mask....

[Highlandtiger in reply to Grammy80]

Quite. They seem to think we're complete idiots who will believe anything!!

[borednow in reply to Highlandtiger]

Sadly, in some cases they're clearly right.

[Rugger]

I don't think you're Mrs Misery Guts! I'd rather listen to you than get Covid .

[altywhite]

Not misery guts at all, and I completely agree with you. We are all still being so careful and making use of the lateral flow tests.

[whitefishbay]

I love my work. Work in two schools. People are not at great at wearing masks. 😩I wear mine. ATM what I think about is visiting Italy when term ends. Shallow.

[jinasc]

Neither me or my neighbours have changed at all - just it is good we can sit in the garden with the 3 metres.............

Next doors kids are not even allowed into the garden as Becky says. 7, 9 and 11 no way. The can look over the gate and they do and we chat. They are lovely kids and keep saying, when Covid goes can we come inside. They have been allowed to look through all the windows. Me inside of course. Becky works in a school and they have were isolated twice last year. Luckily no covid.

Here in the North East the Delta variant is on the loose and although they have opened walk-in and they are busy.

I know I should not say this - but that 'person in charge', wanted to go to India and so the borders were not closed.

BTW: you have never been a 'misery guts' realistic, caring and sometimes a B****y A***L.👼👼👼 not A****L

Stay safe.

[Highlandtiger in reply to jinasc]

Quite!Hearing ministers on tv trying to justify why Bangladesh and Pakistan were put on the red list but India wasn’t stretches credulity to put it mildly!

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to Highlandtiger]

Total lack of understanding that the numbers invoved meant that even if the Indian incidence at the time was lower than P and B - the absolute numbers arriving from India would be much higher.

[Lochy]

The Scotland v England football has caused havoc in Edinburgh. The huge amount of youngsters particularly males 18-25 that are now testing positive is rather alarming . One of my sons met friends to watch the football in a local pub and are all now isolating as the majority are positive! Youngest son is also isolating as one of his friends watched the match in a group and they’re all now positive. Fortunately my youngest wasn’t with them but had contact the following day so has to isolate. I have been ducking and diving around my boys since this all started. I want them to enjoy life but stay away from me!It’s very tricky having youngsters in your life but it does focus the mind.

A few of them were due their first vaccine last week but since positive PCR they aren’t allowed to have vaccine for another month. Not sure I understand why.

But you’re right we all need to be vigilant. I have felt ok since seeing one of my sons and have negative lateral flow tests - whether they are any good is a whole new discussion!

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to Lochy]

Think they are a bit worried about the effect on the immune system - though one grandson had his jab (he's a nurse in training) and came down with the first symptoms the same evening, he'd caught it on placement) He had several weeks of Long Covid and had to be off work - the uni doesn't appear to know how he catches up the weeks before qualifying.

This delta variant is a bit of a pig though - but only what the scientists have been saying all along.

[Lochy in reply to PMRpro]

Yes I am hearing of youngsters double jabbed testing positive and feeling unwell. One of my sons believes he had Covid March 2020 upon returning from Rome after the rugby. The illest he remembers being. He tested positive again last week again with symptoms but not that bad. Has now missed his first jab. Don’t think any of us thought he would feel unwell second time round but must be the Delta variant now in circulation.

[SheffieldJane in reply to PMRpro]

Surely he can apply for an extension? Mine got one for his Masters and just has the results now Pass Merit 69% thank you for asking. He also had some great assistance from a PHD student. This was psychology.

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to SheffieldJane]

It isn't the extension part, that is easy enough - it is how the uni secures and allocates the required number of weeks on placement with an appropriate mentor in an NHS facility. Something they haven't thought about it seems - he could have been doing it now, over the short summer break from lectures.

[SheffieldJane in reply to PMRpro]

Apparently the NHS completely failed to make provision for Student Doctors’ placements as well as nurses and others when they closed down great sections of hospital functions due to the COVID response. They are now trying to address it with proposals such as short term placements and virtual placements (eek). Then they have to see if their solutions are acceptable to the NHS governing bodies as demonstrating competence in new medical staff. I hope he gets sorted out soon.

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to SheffieldJane]

The HOSPITAL managed OK - it was the uni who didn't!!!

[Constance13 in reply to Lochy]

Wow! You have a lot of problems trying to keep away AND look after your boys!! Masks/gloves, sprays all the time.

[borednow in reply to Lochy]

But it was football so that's OK. Apparently.

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to borednow]

I'm trying to identify a link between footy and the G7 that means the virus would avoid the participants ...

[Highlandtiger in reply to PMRpro]

The largely (but not uniquely) male demographic?

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to Highlandtiger]

Link true - but it doesn't seem to work.

[Highlandtiger in reply to Lochy]

Yep. The footie has a lot to answer for...

[Bcol]

If it comes to a point of listening to you and others on this forum or certain inhabitants who work in Westminster then sadly that is no choice at all. As far as I am concerned the Forum wins hands down.

[Rose54]

Totally agree I am only going shopping if I have too, and wear a mask in town

Only concession I have made is going back to my exercise class but that follows all guidelines and limits numbers .

Went to cinema last week but apart from us only another two people in thier

No holidays for me this year I can wait

[Frewen1]

Thanks for that. But what do we do about the large proportion of population who are still refusing or resisting vaccination ... a high percentage of Londoners, for example ...

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to Frewen1]

Leave them to their own devices - but you can continue to wear your mask and take other avoidance precautions. It does seem possible to catch the delata variant very quickly - but wearing a mask works for all varieties, as does keeping away from peope as much as possible.

[HeronNS in reply to Frewen1]

I was shocked last week to discover that one of the two women I meet once a week for a sort of book club has not been vaccinated and has no intention of getting vaccinated. Claims that she has a really good immune system 🙄 At the time we were sitting outside and for the first time in ages all three of us had our masks off at the same time. I usually keep mine on. As soon as I found out I was sitting next to someone who hadn't even had a first shot (I only got my second yesterday 76 days after the first) I put my mask back on, as did the other member of the threesome, and then the guilty party did too. I didn't have the presence of mind to remind her (as Public Health keeps telling us) that it's not only about her and her immune system, but also to protect those around her, like her two companions who both have health issues that could compromise our own ability to even respond optimally to the vaccine, let alone fight off a covid infection. She said she didn't want to take an experimental vaccine. Sigh.

[_charcoal_ in reply to HeronNS]

Sigh indeed. It's this sort of behaviour that creates the need for Covid passes, etc, which your friend would also be agin, no doubt.

I've seen older ppl maskless at open air cafés, and assumed they're double-vaxxed too. But one or two turn out to be full of... disinformation. And they're absolutely unreachable by any argument because they've adopted a one-up stance -- the rest of us are sheep🐑🐏🐑, or have shares in pharmaceuticals💉💰😊

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to HeronNS]

My immediate neighbour told me ages ago she wasn't having the jabs - luckily the incidence here at present is VERY low. But it can easily go up again.

[HeronNS in reply to PMRpro]

Given the recent experience of NS where our community briefly had the highest incidence of covid anywhere (clobbered it, back to low normal again) I'm feeling very nervous about the imminent re-opening of our borders to the rest of Canada (ROC) and, when the feds deem right, to the rest of the world. I think delta variant has changed the rules of the game and I feel just as insecure as I did last year in spite of the vaccine.

Glad incidence of disease remains low in your neck of the woods. Perhaps we'll be out of this mess eventually, just taking longer than I suppose many of us expected.

[Nerak12]

Morning PMRpro 👋🏻. Hope you and OH are doing OK. Just got off the phone with my Rheumy Registrar having had my 3 monthly catch-up . I asked the question “How much does being on MTX & Pred affect effectiveness of C19 jab?” Received honest answer “We don’t know”. Basically told to keep on carrying on being very careful. By the way, MTX has been great at helping to reduce PMR symptoms and helping me get down to more sensible levels of Pred. Down to 5mgs at last after nearly 4 years and nearly 1 year on MTX with zero side-effects from the latter. 🤞🏻 Also like another lady on this thread looking forward to visiting Italy again. Hopefully, not in the too distant future. Stay safe everyone.

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to Nerak12]

Wish more of his ilk would trumpet that from the housetops!!!! Worldwide!

MTX probably does help some people so is worth a try. But not if it makes them worse ... Good to hear it has worked for you - though of course it could be coinciding with the natural fading of the disease anyway.

[Hidden in reply to Nerak12]

We don’t know, is what my rheumatologist said also. I appreciated the honesty. Still masking.

[Nightingales]

It reminds me of the Jaws tag line “ just when we thought it was safe to go back in the water”. I admit I was starting to relax a little, hugging my grandchildren, lunch at a pub outdoors. After 18 months staying home I decided maybe I should start to live a little. But now I am wondering if I should cancel my cataract operation and I will be back to being very cautious.

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to Nightingales]

I have gone for the occasional drink at the village pizzeria/bar/cafe all the way through - but only outside and away from others. I carry a mask and use it anywhere near anyone else. But we don't have a delta variant problem - YET! In fact our numbers are very low at present - but there are new cases, the odd one or two.

[HeronNS in reply to Nightingales]

Surely the hospital for a cataract op would be the safest place you could be? Recently was talking to someone about her recent cataract operation, and it sounds like, relative to what it was like even a few years ago, a piece of cake!

[Missionwoman]

I have only just managed to get back on to the forum. I'm still chuntering on with no pred but the PMR has been making little background 'noises'. I now realise you are an Ambassador. Congratulations. Markers were very slightly raised and I have decided just to let it fade by itself. It certainly is going slowly. I think the lockdown didn't help as I have not been so active. I'm glad to see you are still managing to get out for the occasional drink. I have had a meal a couple of times at what was the Methodist church by the river. They have a big marquee which is open at both ends. I have not yet been in to a restaurant and friends all meet in each other's gardens. Keep well and safe.

[Missionwoman]

I'm the person from the place in Scotland near where you used to live.

[Hirondelle]

Thank you for that link. I was surprised and shocked to get an email from the NHS last Friday telling me to shield. Is this because of steroids/ auto immune disease?

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to Hirondelle]

I have no idea! You'd have to ask them.

[Hirondelle in reply to PMRpro]

I just wanted to know if other people with PMR have been told to shield.

[MrsNails in reply to Hirondelle]

I was Shielded from the beginning of Lockdown until we were ‘released’ in May, check the date on your letter. How long have you had PMR?

MrsN

Latest Shielding Advice

gov.uk/government/publicati...

[Hirondelle in reply to MrsNails]

Thank you Mrs N. I have had PMR since start of December but steroids only since 5th Jan. I usually go to a yoga class in the village hall- is this the kind of thing I should avoid? I also have quite bad asthma and coronary heart disease…

[MrsNails in reply to Hirondelle]

Well, yes you would have been classed as Shielded during Lockdown, we are now ‘free’ but advised to take additional care, have a read of the Link l’ve attached. Do you wear your mask when you go to Yoga?

Please check the date on your letter, did it come in the post?

MrsN

[Hirondelle in reply to MrsNails]

No, by email last Friday. A shock. I do wish the surgery could have mentioned it. Nobody wears a mask once inside the village hall. We are 2 m apart though. I will now read the link you sent. I’m meant to be visiting my brother on the Isle of Wight in 2 weeks…thank you so much, what a lovely forum this is

[MrsNails in reply to Hirondelle]

From the Dept of Health or your GP’s Surgery? Sorry to be a bit Miss Marple! 😉

[Hirondelle in reply to MrsNails]

From the Department of Health , Miss Marple

[MrsNails in reply to Hirondelle]

Strange......I shall Investigate further 🧐

Shielding is Paused....

Thanks Hirondelle 🌸

[Hirondelle in reply to MrsNails]

Thank YOU!

[DorsetLady PMRGCAuk volunteer in reply to Hirondelle]

Have a look at MrsNails latest post - have replied there - healthunlocked.com/pmrgcauk...

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to MrsNails]

Didn't someone else say they'd had a letter? Maybe it was another forum ...

[HeronNS in reply to Hirondelle]

If Delta arrives you will wish you were all still wearing masks especially when exercising in a group indoors. Airborne disease. It seems the vaccines still protect against Delta, even if it's just to allow a milder case rather than complete immunity.

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to HeronNS]

But there is evidence that you may be able to catch literally in passing ... Masks rule!

[HeronNS in reply to PMRpro]

I know. I tried to find a print account of what I heard on the radio a day or two ago, of a case picked up apparently AFTER an infected person had already left the area. I don't know if it was a restaurant patio or indoors. It was confirmed through DNA analysis.

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to HeronNS]

In Sydney I think??? I'm sure I saw it in a Guardian article ...

[tangocharlie in reply to PMRpro]

Do you have a link to any article saying mask are efective as I had an argument with somebody the other day show says they aren't because droplets get through flimsy material?

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to tangocharlie]

Then you need less flimsy material! We have had to wear FFP2 masks in shops by law, now medical masks are acceptable and were all the time if you were going into the hospital. they have made a big difference.

who.int/emergencies/disease...

They are not 100% effective unless you use the sort of masks that Addenbrookes introduced for their staff. However, if everyone wears a mask, each layer reduces the amount of virus that reaches your face and in combination with distancing and hygiene the chances are reduced considerably. It's just an extension of "coughs and sneezes spread diseases" and every little helps.

ajicjournal.org/article/S01...

[Highlandtiger in reply to tangocharlie]

Very recently Israel has reintroduced mask wearing because of an upsurge in infections when they stopped being mandatory. Just happened to read this the other day...

theguardian.com/world/2021/...

I think there was a problem with UK government messaging on this at the start (Jenny Harries in particular) which has stuck in some people’s minds...

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to Highlandtiger]

Instead of telling the truth which was actually that there hadn't been any good studies because there hadn't needed to be any. And the UK message is the wrong way round: SPACE, face, hands should be what is being pushed but all are important.

[Highlandtiger in reply to PMRpro]

Well, yes I was being diplomatic saying it was a messaging problem...

[Pollyanna16 in reply to Hirondelle]

I have just restarted attending a “live” Pilates group . Only 9 allowed in huge room with all windows open. No masks whilst exercising. We take our own mats etc. To be honest it does me so much good mentally & physically I’m taking the risk at the moment. We have to live with this somehow.

[Grammy80]

Misery Guts!...NO!.... MG stands for Mighty Guru in my book🦉 😉

[Coffeebeans]

I couldn't agree more PMRPRO

Meet outdoors by default, keep indoors meetings small and ventilated if you have to be indoors and mask up.

Until we get the results of the trials - and probably further trials, we all need to be careful in our position.

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to Coffeebeans]

We are going to have to live with Covid for the foreseeable future. We might just as well keep our hands in ...

[Coffeebeans in reply to PMRpro]

Yes. It's a long game this one.

[Grammy80]

Caution is the word of the day in my book. I would love to see my family from Canada...but if the border opens on July 21, it won't be WIDE open. There will still be lots of quarantining on the Canadian end....because there sure isn't on the US end. If they came to visit on return all 4 would have to stay in an approved hotel for three days and then quarantine from everyone for two weeks at home. Covid came and changed the game...we know that and need to protect ourselves. Now...if I was in England and could meet you in your garden~~....2 metres away...I would be right there.💖 Have mask...hope to travel!