No antibodies for covid 19: Hi everyone, I have... - PMRGCAuk

PMRGCAuk

13,527 members24,603 posts

No antibodies for covid 19

2013mayo profile image
2013mayo

Hi everyone,

I have an interesting thing going on. I have been asked to take part in a trial for a company which is checking antibodies for covid 19. I have had both vaccines and yet it showed no antibodies. Does this mean I can still get covid.

I’ve been shielding for the whole year do I have to continue. If you read up on the Astra vaccine it does go on to say that the vaccine should be 3 weeks apart for maximum protection and for you r immune system to fire up antibodies, they have no data for the 12 week wait.

I’m left very confused over this now.

X

53 Replies

I haven't got an answer, but I think many are confused 🤔

Did they tell you which sort of Covid antibody they are checking?Regarding the timing, between doses, the three weeks is what they did in the trials so the data was for that. Then the powers that be had the idea that it was better to vaccinate more people with a first dose than try to get two doses dose in the 3 weeks. So began the live trial whereby 12 weeks was the new interval and vaccine makers said it was probably ok but their data couldn’t say for sure. I believe the Astra Zeneca is a bit more flexible than the Pfizer but it is looking like it’s ok.

wellcome.org/news/what-happ...

No vaccine is 100% and an individual’s response is unknown so while it was ‘sold’ to the public as the key to freedom everything back to normal, the small print was that we still need to take precautions because we don’t know what our actual protection is. It is thought that if you do get it, it won’t be as severe as it would have been if you were not vaccinated. In the UK the rollout has occurred under lockdown conditions so the next bit of the experiment is to see what happens to transmission and the disease process once people start to mix in a big way. The tricky bit is that the most active people in society are still yet to have the vaccine or are only just starting.

There is still uncertainty about new variants that pop up and there is a concerning one from India that has been found in South London that is more likely to sneak past the immune system it is thought.

So there are so many unknowns still that I’ll be following advice and not changing my behaviour. I do feel for those who have been shielding but I guess there is some comfort in that the numbers are so much lower than they were for now and the vaccine is likely to have given some protection.

2013mayo profile image
2013mayo in reply to SnazzyD

True, I’ve decided to have another test in a few weeks to see if it takes a while for antibodies to get into the system, (I will have to pay for this) but at least it will put my mind at rest, if it’s still negative I’ll see what my doctor suggest.X

yogabonnie profile image
yogabonnie in reply to 2013mayo

Let us know your result!

2013mayo profile image
2013mayo in reply to yogabonnie

Will do. X

I’d like to know the answer as would many of us. Maybe someone can clarify to some extent

2013mayo profile image
2013mayo in reply to Rache

I’m going to have another test in a few weeks.Xx

This sounds very worrying. I have been concerned myself as I have had to postpone my second AZ jab, partly because I am so unwell at the moment and partly because one of the two antibiotics I am taking days not to have anything with PEG in it - which is a component of the AZ vaccine. We already know that those on steroids have a ten fold reduction in protection from the vaccine.

I will be terrified of going anywhere having shielded for so long!

2013mayo profile image
2013mayo in reply to Songbird69

I was on my second round of antibiotics, this was after my second vac, maybe that’s why, but it should of shown some response from the first vac done in January .X

Hi in your post you say peg is a component of AstraZeneca, but isn't it the Pfizer that peg is in, I'm allergic to peg, so I'm not going for the Pfizer.

HeronNS profile image
HeronNS in reply to Elizcarroll

Yes. immunizebc.ca/ask-us/questi...

Yes - sorry. I was getting confused with propylene glycol which is in the AZ vaccine - not the same. Apologies.

Hi Songbirds Thanks No problem, I thought I got it wrong😭 are allergic to peg?Kind of concerned that we might not have much protection.

Not allergic to PEG as far as I know but one of the antibiotics I am taking specifically says not to mix with PEG!! I am concerned too. Just going to carry on being as careful as I can - no flights for me for a long while I think either!

Worried about doing the normal things I love to do and miss.

It's been a rough year, we never could have imagined this in our wildest dreams. I remember the movie contagion, I would never watch that, because I felt it was so far from the truth, but proved me wrong🤔I've held off on vaccine for a while,

It's all so scary, but hopefully we will get back to doing the things we like🌞

Hope you get well soon, take care

HeronNS profile image
HeronNS in reply to Songbird69

Four vaccines are approved for use in Canada at present, and here it says which ones have PEG and which don't:

immunizebc.ca/ask-us/questi...

Songbird69 profile image
Songbird69 in reply to HeronNS

Thanks Heron. That’s really useful. I have been told I shouldn’t have the second vaccine whilst on heavy duty antibiotics for an infection which landed me in hospital for three weeks. Not good news. ☹️

HeronNS profile image
HeronNS in reply to Songbird69

Hope you are recovering well now. 💐

Songbird69 profile image
Songbird69 in reply to HeronNS

Thank you. It’s work in progress!

Elizcarroll profile image
Elizcarroll in reply to HeronNS

Thanks for HeronNS my doctor didnt have a clue, he had to look it up, I had a bad reaction to penicillin years ago, well it nearly kill me, so I wouldn't risk taken Pfizer, hopefully we all come out of this soon and get back to normal living, take care

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador

Antibodies aren't the whole truth about immunity, there are two types of immunity that are important and the t-cell/b-cell memory is not measured in antibodies.

One study has found that immunosuppressed cancer patients didn't show much response after the first Pfizer shot but it recovered after the second - when it was given at the correct interval as recommended by the company. Another study has found that rheumatology patients on corticosteroids developed about a tenth of the response shown by control subjects - but it was a small study and there is a massive variation in response even in controls. And we have no real idea what that means yet.

The figures they claimed were obtained under clinical trial conditions - a perfect situation in many ways where anyone with potentially poorer responses were excluded. That doesn't happen in real life and the result is likely to be less good. Even under perfect conditions, the protection was not 100% for not getting Covid, it was potentially 100% for not developing severe illness, a very different thing, Mild illness for the healthy is one thing - it may be entirely another for someone with underlying conditions.

Being of a very realistic persuasion - others might call me a doomsayer - I confidently expect the figures to be on the way back up by mid-May, It has happened with each of the relaxations so far almost everywhere - and places who didn't get hit as badly last summer are in a poor state now. Why? Complacency. Look at the packed outdoor pubs the other night - no masks, young unvaccinated people close together, and even in areas where variants are already on the rise and the variants seem all to be more infectious. Which is, after all, the end of a virus mutation, to make itself more successful in some way.

I've written a few times - despite our vaccination we must assume nothing and continue to take the precautions: SPACE, face, hygiene. Hand washing is good - but not half as good as keeping away from crowds, people in general, and wearing a good mask. I got through all of last year without shielding to the extent it was pushed in the UK - I had to go to supermarkets or we've have starved. But we have been made to stay in our own communities and masks were mandatory very early on. Opening up here is being a lot slower than in the UK - and some of it is still scary.

Don't be misled - the current fall in numbers has been due to lockdown rather than the jabs but all over the world this current wave is swelling amongst younger people, 30-40 year olds who according the medics, suddenly get really sick on days 12-14 rather than day 10 and are in ICU in hours not days. If you can't trust your neighbour to be Covid-free it is up to you. It may not be the neighbour's fault - they may have no symptoms at all but still be shedding virus until suddenly they develop symptoms days later.

That said - I go out and go shopping and don't feel as scared as this time last year. Though every day I can look at the number of cases for each community in the region and I can see that although numbers were falling in our village - there was a new case the other day. And there are clusters of new cases in other places.

Pastit profile image
Pastit in reply to PMRpro

Correct in all you say! Who am l you might ask. Just someone with common sense.

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to Pastit

Unfortunately, common sense does not appear to be that common a commodity these days ...

Bcol profile image
Bcol in reply to PMRpro

Sadly that is really true. 😭

Pastit profile image
Pastit in reply to PMRpro

It was Dead and buried years ago!

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to Pastit

Terminally ill maybe - but I'd say there are a fair few of our generation with a fair helping of common ...

I'm not dead yet ;)

Pastit profile image
Pastit in reply to PMRpro

Nor me, require a replacement heart valve though😱

2013mayo profile image
2013mayo in reply to Pastit

Again, very interesting, this should be brought up with Mat Hancock as to what we do next.X

2013mayo profile image
2013mayo in reply to PMRpro

On bless you.😍

Exactly the same happened with me when I took a test for the ONS. It was the finger prick version, which showed no antibodies a number of weeks after the first Pfizer jab.Paddy

2013mayo profile image
2013mayo in reply to Charlie1boy

Very interesting 🤔X

If it’s the UK Biobank study (which I think you said elsewhere) in their FAQ section they state that just because the test for antibodies is negative it does NOT mean that you are not protected by the vaccine. There was a video from one of the professors involved in the study which tried to explain it. As PMRpro says it is not entirely straightforward. My Covidence antibody test in January (pre AZ jag) was negative. That didn’t surprise me. My Biobank test in April (post AZ first jag) was also negative. I was disappointed but went in to FAQ and read what they said and watched the video and was somewhat reassured.

I agree but if you read further down it explains no vaccine is 100% and a negative test for antibodies proves the vac is not working.Well that’s what I read from it, maybe I’m worrying over nothing and I’m ok 🤔 x

Hi I would say for anyone who is immune suppressed changing from being extremely careful and avoiding numerous people is like playing Russian roulette, regardless of vaccine status. The only way to stay safe is to continue to assume that others could be asymptotic with the potential of passing the virus on . Sorry if this sounds like we will never be safe to mix but I definitely think it’s the case at the moment

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to Devoid

Couldn't agree more.

Highlandtiger profile image
Highlandtiger in reply to Devoid

Agree 100%.

Pastit profile image
Pastit in reply to Devoid

Agree

2013mayo profile image
2013mayo in reply to Devoid

Oh dear, how sad, we have all been so lucky pre covid, how sad for the future .X

pigeonCl-HU profile image
pigeonCl-HU in reply to Devoid

Devoid, I totally agree with you, the virus does not read nor abide by the calendar....on the contrary, it only ramps up its virulence by producing new variants.

So yes, caution is definitely in order, and no, you do not sound like doom and gloom.

In my book shielding is still in order.

pigeon.

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to pigeonCl-HU

I heard someone on TV the other day claiming it does improve in summer. I have NO idea how they came to that conclusion - it got worse in SA's summer, it's rampant in India where by our standards it is summer all the time. If it does look better it is because we spend more time outside and not huddled together in stuffy rooms.

pigeonCl-HU profile image
pigeonCl-HU in reply to PMRpro

oh yeah, that "improve in summer" lark, they come to that stupid conclusion because the flu eases off in summer.

Hasn't anyone told them that the flu and covid are two different animals? Obviously not.

But then, you know, people will buy it, because that is what they want to hear.

pigeon.

I was just going to ask this question. Here in America Kentucky they have a case where 22 vaccinated nursing home patients have contacted Covid (one died but the rest are not so sick) from an unvaccinated aid. So now I am very concerned about my immunity. Thanks for posting this. I will be curious to hear any follow up you learn. thanks. (I had Pfizer and might pay for an antibody test as I intend to go to Stockholm as soon as I am allowed in the country=)

2013mayo profile image
2013mayo in reply to yogabonnie

Oh how sad that so many people got covid even though they were vaccinated, at least the vac done it’s job helping most of them, I really think all health care workers must be vaccinated to be able to work in care homes.I’m on 4mg pred but have been on a much higher dose.

X

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to yogabonnie

The headline figures you see in the media of over 90% are ideal results in clinical trial conditions, in healthy subjects and, above all, relate to protection from serious illness. 95% protection still means that 1 in 20 can get serious symptoms, about 1 in 10 will get less serious illness. It also doesn't mean that the 1 out of 10 is evenly spread - there will be clusters because of the environmental and social conditions.

If you end up being the 1 in 10 - it is 100% for you. We have to still assume that everyone else might be infectious and that we might be the one who gets it ...

pigeonCl-HU profile image
pigeonCl-HU in reply to PMRpro

Well said as usual, short and to the point.

pigeon

May I ask how much prednisone you are on and for how long_?

Hi just saw this post. Please indeed let us know when you have your second test. It is for the spike protein? Apparrently the only accurate one. Thank you!

2013mayo profile image
2013mayo in reply to bluegirl7

Hi I’ve decided to wait the 35 days after second vac, that will be in a couple of weeks, I’ve ordered my antigen test from nhs so hopefully it will show I’ve got antibodies. I’ll let everyone know.

X

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to 2013mayo

The antigen test doesn't show antibodies - it shows if you have virus. Different things

2013mayo profile image
2013mayo in reply to PMRpro

I’ll check it out, thank you 🤔

bluegirl7 profile image
bluegirl7 in reply to 2013mayo

It has to be the antibody test that looks for the Spike Protein - the only reliable way

2013mayo profile image
2013mayo in reply to bluegirl7

I’ll check it out, thank you.🤔

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador

But even if you have an antibody test that works for the vaccines we have - it still doesn;t tell you if it will work effectively against the mutations. In that context, not even the perfectly healthy recipient of a vaccine can be 100% sure they are protected. Only time will show that - and as long as the spread is as it is in India, there is a lot of scope for further mutations.

You may also like...