AN EXPLANATION OF PMR AND GCA - A why and how of ... - PMRGCAuk

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AN EXPLANATION OF PMR AND GCA - A why and how of steroids

PMRpro profile image
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A question was asked about whether steroids were just hiding the disease and this is the reply I wrote to try to explain the background in easy to understand language:

GCA (Giant Cell Arteritis) is the name given to the process in the disease that gives rise to the symptoms. The arteries are inflamed - the inflammation isn't significantly different from any other sort, like that with an insect bite. When tissue is inflamed the blood flow increases to the area to remove the problem and that makes it swell up. In GCA special types of cells (very large ones, the giant cell bit of the name) develop in the layer of the artery wall that makes the blood vessel stretchy so that the swelling may become enough to restrict the blood flow THROUGH the blood vessel (rather than TO it). Inflammation often causes fluid retention around the affected area, another part of the body's attempt to get rid of the cause.

In the case of PMR the name is just a description of the symptoms - poly = many, myalgia = painful, rheumatica = to do with muscles - which are probably due to a similar restriction of the blood flow but in other parts of the body. GCA that causes blindness affects the temporal artery which is part of the pathway of blood to the optic nerve. GCA can be in many other arteries but the temporal arteritis bit is the common image we come across, apart from anything else the temporal artery is easy to get at and biopsy to see what they can find. However - only about half of patients with GCA symptoms actually have these cells to be found in the temporal artery.

No-one really knows the exact reason for the giant cells developing in the first place - it is assumed by most authorities that it is an autoimmune action by the body where it attacks its own tissue thinking there is something wrong. On the other hand - the body may well know something we don't and is attempting to rid our body of something that is hurting it that hasn't been identified.

Once you are on steroids the inflammation is reduced - the more there is the higher the dose you need or the longer you need to be on it before it is fully under control. Since in this case you can't SEE the inflammation you have to look at things that might be related to it to see how it is being got under control. It is accepted that ESR and CRP measurments represent that - high when there is a lot of inflammation present in the body and falling as it gets better. Unfortunately, they are very non-specific - that means lots of things affect them, including pregnancy in fact! More than a fifth of patients with GCA and PMR never have had raised levels of either, others have an abnormal reading for one and not the other. So the real situation is that the symptoms must be taken as the guide as to whether you are on the right dose - ahead of any blood levels.

Yes, you are quite right in thinking that the disease is only hidden by the steroids. The steroids deal with the effect of what is going on in the body, if the autoimmune process hasn't died away all that will happen if you reduce the steroids is that the inflammation is allowed to re-emerge and the symptoms start up again. This is a disease without any known cure - it can be managed to allow you a relatively pain-free and normal life by taking steroids, nothing more than that. It's like high blood pressure - just because you have a normal blood pressure when taking your medication doesn't mean you don't have a problem that would cause high blood pressure. The cause is being controlled as long as you take the tablets - stop taking them and your blood pressure will rise again. The tablets just stopped what was causing the symptom of raised blood pressure - it is a sign that something is wrong, it could be one or more of many things.

The difference between people who have it for a long time or a short time is that the underlying thing may have gone away and so the inflammation is no longer being caused. I have also written an analogy to try to explain how it works - it's on here too. I likened it to a forest fire. You can deal with that in various ways that are similar in effect to using steroids. If you spray the fire with enough water the fire will go out eventually when everything is too wet to burn. If you use other substances and remove the oxygen the fire will die away on the surface and maybe go out eventually when there isn't enough oxygen right down deep. If you don't use enough or you don't wait long enough the embers of the fire may still be hot enough to burst back into flame if you scratch at the surface of the covering and expose live embers.

It is possible that you could get rid of GCA altogether by giving a massive dose of steroids, no-one knows as that sort of dose would do so much damage to you. You could cure almost all cancers if you gave enough chemotherapy - but the patients would die of the side-effects. The trick is to get the balance right.

In PMR, there is little risk of you going blind and it is also very unlikely you will die of PMR - so you get a lower dose to start with and then look for the lowest dose that keeps the symptoms under control so you can keep taking it for a long time if necessary without the total dose you take being too massive.

In GCA the stakes are higher: if specific arteries are affected there is a risk of you going blind and so the initial doses are much much higher, especially if you go to the doctor already complaining of visual symptoms or headache. They can't tell how bad the situation is except by the blood values if that applies to you - so once you start to reduce the dose you need to be very careful to note any return of the symptoms that sent you to the doctor in the first place.

If you reduce in very small steps you are more likely to have only very minor symptoms if the dose gets to a low enough level to allow the inflammation to start up again - which is why many of us say to try that so you can remain on that dose for a while. If the step was too big, the inflammation can really get going again - after all, 35mg may be enough to deal with it but 33mg isn't, but you dropped to 30mg so the wind really got up again - just like with a forest fire.

It may be that if you then remain on that dose for a month or more you can try a reduction and get lower, the amount of inflammation has reduced further in the meantime, it just took longer to get there.

Many doctors are only used to using pred for shortterm use - in asthma or exaccerbations of other diseases. They give a highish dose for a few days and then get the patient off quickly. They find it difficult to adjust to these 2 illnesses where the need is for much longertem use with very small adjustments to find a longterm dose.

Hope this helps explain some bits better,

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35 Replies
Mimievie profile image
Mimievie

Thank you, very helpful

123-go profile image
123-go

Thank you!

Mcdurmott profile image
Mcdurmott

Hi PMRPro—The best explanation I’ve read anywhere! Thanks again, PMRpro, for helping us cope with this medical mess.

sondya profile image
sondya

Very helpful. Thank you. Having a bit of a roller-coaster PMR, not helped by covid lockdowns and access to the rheumatologist. Also to help a friend in the same boat whose doctor is not familiar with the disease.

Grammy80 profile image
Grammy80

Thanks so much! So much clear and valuable information. It is like whipping the curtain away from the Wizard of Oz....just clear facts. I feel I understand what is going on in my body better. 💖

Sally001 profile image
Sally001

Thank you PMRpro, that was very helpful.

anniekins1 profile image
anniekins1

Thank you for posting this. A really useful article and very informative.

FRnina profile image
FRnina

Explained in plain every day English. Perfect!

Buzybe profile image
Buzybe

Thank you, struggling with reducing steroids and now taking blood pressure tablets, and wondering if I should take steroids in the morning and bp medication in the evening.

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to Buzybe

Discuss evening BP meds with your doctor - it depends on the type and in some cases it may suppress your overnight BP a bit too much.

Buzybe profile image
Buzybe in reply to PMRpro

Thank yo, I will certainly do that.

Frewen1 profile image
Frewen1

This is brilliant, thanks so much PMRPro

BrawScot profile image
BrawScot

Can I copy and share this post to a PMR Facebook group? Best explanation I've read yet. I'll also put up a HealthUnlocked link too, to make the FB group members aware of this group hub. Just joined yesterday but it feels like a great place for information and support.

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to BrawScot

Of course - all my posts are done for public viewing, so to speak.

We can go into much more detail here on the forum - and because the forum is sponsored by the charity everything is monitored and moderated for reliability and scientific basis.

BrawScot profile image
BrawScot

Thank you. I was only diagnosed with PMR in January, and still don't really understand what's going on in my body, but this has really helped regarding the steroids and the long-term implications. Much appreciated.

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to BrawScot

Are you in Scotland or merely an exile like me? You know there is a dedicated and very active Scottish charity for PMRGCA?

Hildalew profile image
Hildalew

Thank you PMRpro. I especially like the forest fire picture.

BrawScot profile image
BrawScot

Yes, I'm in Scotland. I came across this hub as I was looking for PMR charities. Saw there was a small Scottish one, but it looks pretty active. Reason I was looking was I did a fundraiser last November for Alzheimer's UK (my dad had dementia, passed away in January) - I cycled 500 miles through November, mix of indoor and outdoor, and raised £630. My leg muscles were painful before I started it, but I didn't know I had PMR at the time and thought it would put some strength back in my legs (I've always been a cyclist and hillwalker). I am desperately needing to get my exercising restarted, but not sure what to do and how much to do. So I was thinking of doing another months cycling fundraiser as an incentive, though maybe not as much as 500 miles! Had been looking at Prostrate Cancer or similar, but think I'll do it for PMR now. As an invisible condition it needs more awareness in the general public.

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to BrawScot

The Scottish group is extremely active and actively funds research as well as members participating as patient advisors. I "attended" the Zoomed AGM to hear the lectures they started with - superb stuff!

Where are you?

pmrgcascotland.com/

BrawScot profile image
BrawScot in reply to PMRpro

I'm Mid Calder, just outside Edinburgh. Think there's an Edinburgh group? I need to take another look, I just had a quick scan before finding the UK one and the HealthUnlocked hub.

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to BrawScot

My daughter lives in Rosyth - drove through Mid Calder last time we visited her after lunch at the Bridge Inn at Ratho - but not quite sure where we were going!!!!

SheffieldJane profile image
SheffieldJane in reply to BrawScot

Clearly a strong Scottish angel.Sorry for the loss of your dad, I know the pain of that slow devastating loss (my mum).

Please take care of you in all this, PMR is a significant, systemic disease that doesn’t take kindly to over exertion. 🌻

BrawScot profile image
BrawScot in reply to SheffieldJane

Thank you. So far all I'm doing each day is my morning dog walk - some days longer than others. I feel my body will let me know when enough is enough with the exercising, but I've always been someone who pushes myself on cycles and walks. I need to re-tune my brain to 'slow it down' mode. :)

Frenchduck profile image
Frenchduck

Excellent, thank you!

Gardening2811 profile image
Gardening2811

This is really helpful. Thank you.😊

Bagadash profile image
Bagadash

Very helpful explanation. Thank you.

Frewen1 profile image
Frewen1

Just read your “ how and why” of steroids ... excellent, thank you, I really value everything you write

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to Frewen1

:)

christi48 profile image
christi48

Thank you. That was really helpful!

Kittymom7 profile image
Kittymom7

Pretty good explanation. I was recently reduced to 15mg, then 10mg. My CRP has remained at 3 but my symptoms are with me. I have headache, claudication, neck pain. GCA was confirmed by temporal biopsy. I mentioned to my Neuro Opthamologist that my sed rate increased from 10 to 21 but the CPR remained at 3. He has lowered my pred to 5mg/day. Symptoms are still here. I’m confused.

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to Kittymom7

I woud suggest your neuroopth. doesn't understand the concept that rising sed rates is a signal that inflammation somewhere in the body is increasing. It may not be the GCA, it could be something else, but the correct procedure is to stop tapering and repeat the tests in a week or two to see if there is a rising trend which might suggest it is the GCA. If it is something else it would probably be falling again or you might have symptoms. If it is rising AND you have GCA symptoms, it is a no-brainer, there is a risk your pred dose is now too low. And you absolutely should NOT be reducing the dose and, at under 10mg, NOT at 5mg at a time in any case. From 10mg it should be not more than 1mg at a time because the adrenals are about to have to recover to produce cortisol after a long period of suppression and that takes time. And you aren't heading relentlessly to zero - you are looking for the lowest effective dose.

I think it is very likely that you are at too low a dose and you are running the risk of a proper flare and needing to go back to a much higher dose to avoid the risk of losing your sight.

Kittymom7 profile image
Kittymom7 in reply to PMRpro

Thank you. My neuro opthamologist doesn’t talk much. Thinking of switching to another. I really appreciate your response. Everything I’ve learned has come from my neurologist and online. So hard to find someone familiar with GCA.

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to Kittymom7

I never quite get why a neuroopthalmolgist - it isn't a neuro problem, it is a vasculitis, inflamed blood vessels, and that is the specialty of rheumatologists, They can be a tad variable too but they ARE the place to look for people familiar with GCA.

Kittymom7 profile image
Kittymom7 in reply to PMRpro

Recently saw a rheumatologist for the first time two weeks ago. I hope he will be more forthcoming and communicative. Thank you for your response. I appreciate your reply very much. It confirms my thoughts a rheumatologist is the way to go.

NinnyB profile image
NinnyB

wow I love your explanation, better than the medical articles I have read, thanks

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