Quite a lot of posts on here re carbs but I just wondered "can carbs actually be bad for you"? No doubt a question for our expert thereon, PMRpro).
I eat quite a lot of cabs: crusty rolls, potatoes (including chips), cake, biscuits, etc. Also salted nuts. Not in great quantities but....!
Will be interested in comments. C. 👵🏻
Good question, Constance! There's a lot I could say but having made a start on that have abandoned it as I was rambling so will leave it to others whose minds are less jumbled.In my own case, I've had to sift through lots of information as I need to balance low carb with high fibre for two separate conditions. I will say that cakes and biscuits should be seriously limited as they contain lots of sugar which is inflammatory and won't help PMR symptoms. If you must have chips bake them. My way is to peel, cut into nice chunky chip shapes, parboil till just tender, drain well and let them steam off for a few minutes, drizzle with a little olive oil and bake till golden. Restrict the portion size!
Food high in carbs like wholemeal bread, pasta and rice are nutritionally sound and low carbs found in their refined, white counterparts have most of their fibre removed are less healthy.
Rambling, so will stop now. 🙂
As 123-go says - depends on the carbs. Processed carbs, especially baked goods made with glucose fructose syrup (also known as high fructose corn syrup) are debatably not very good for anyone, They are used in manufacturing for the other properties they bring - keeping cakes etc moist and extending the shelf life, sometimes to months and months. The high content of fructose contributes to cells developing insulin resistance which can lead to diabetes and also causes fatty liver disease and inflammation.
healthline.com/health-news/...
In lesser amounts it probably isn't too bad - but once there are large amounts of processed foods in the diet it adds lots of calories as well as these claimed effects - and that really has been associated with the increasing obesity and diabetes epidemics both of which have increased in parallel with the increase in sugars in the diet over the past 70 years.
linkedin.com/pulse/sugar-co...
gives some really startling statistics about the increase in sugar consumption since the 1700s. as well as telling us that "Now, the average person consumes 70 grams of fructose each day, which is a shocking 300 per cent above the daily recommended amount."
Carbs from vegetables and nuts are a different thing altogether. Provided the foods you are eating have other nutritional pluses like fibre there is nothing wrong with them. Though you can still eat too much of them!
When you are taking pred - that is where the excess carbohydrate in your diet starts to make a real difference. If you are eating well above the recommended amount of carbohydrate and even more so when it is in a processed format then you are very likely to meet the fat deposit fairy. It isn't so much you should STOP eating carbs as reduce from a very high level of poor quality carbs to a much healthier quantity of carbs which have real nutritional value. And remove the highly processed stuff made with white flour - which turns straight into sugar as it hits the body.
Remember what we ate in the early 50s when sugar was still rationed? That was the healthiest diet that could be put together - the desire for sugar and sweets blossomed in the mid 50s with the end of rationing. And then in the 60s food manufacturers spotted a great ruse: fat was claimed to cause heart disease as a result of some very flawed observational studies. It was realised that fat in food could be cut by using sugars which were far cheaper and had other benefits for the food manufacturing world. They funded research to back it up and the low fat revolution began: eating fat was discouraged and manufactured food with far more carbohydrate, especially sugars flooded the market. And the heart disease and obesity waggon rolled on and on.
Thanks Pp. Luckily I don't like processed foods and, as I said, I eat everything in measured amounts. I'll watch a bit more carefully in future however. The trouble is I don't want to lose any more weight.
I seriously doubt you have a lot to worry about - it really is the carbs in processed foods and added sugar that are a problem. High quality cake is a different thing altogether!
Please can I ask a subsidiary question, I'm a vegetarian and anyway avoiding processed carbs, but i do eat a bowl of homemade fruit salad most days, no added sugar but will i be getting too much fructose ? 😱 (I have to really keep to a rigid diet to avoid piling on the weight, I am on 8mg pred and only have to look at a potato to get that FD fairy visit !) Many thanks for any advice
The result is what counts - is what you are doing keeping the fat fairy at bay? It is easy for me to do low carb because I love fish, meat, eggs and cheese but I'm sure there are veggies on the forum who have reduced their carbs successfully. It is the commercially produced high fructose syrup made from corn that is the problem - not the relatively healthy stuff in fresh fruit.
Barely keeping it at bay, shoots up if i sin at all. I'm healthy, apart from PMR & have plenty of energy ( on v little sleep ) breakfast = keffir + half a banana, lunch = homemade all sorts of hearty veggie soup with lentils in,
I drink 2 x coffee with vegan milk in the day, some water in the afternoon & and in the evening a sm white wine & fizzy water, which i am loathe to drop !
in the early evening on 4 nights i have a bowl of leaves & an apple sprinkled with a dessert spoon of vegan 'parmesan' type cheese, followed by a low fat yoghurt, and later in the evening the bowl of fruit salad including the other half of the banana. Same every day except two nights a week have scrambled egg on a small slice of wholemeal toast, and on a sunday I have small helping of something quorn and vegetables.
If i even look at a potato ( as i did at christmas ) the FDF knows and adds a lb or two . I think it is what it is.
I know that feeling!!! I also know the not giving up wine feeling ...
Gosh this sounds pretty healthy to me. The only thing I’d say, for what it’s worth (I’m not an expert but have read a lot lately about diet) is that having your fruit salad at night means that it’s not absorbed before you sleep and might be more likely to contribute to weight gain than it would if you had it earlier. Read good evidence lately that doing your eating in a slot like 8am to 5pm or 9am to 6pm gives you a 12 hour fast which helps with weight loss. But if you’re not bothered about losing weight I wouldn’t worry.
oh i am very bothered, its a battle to keep weight anything like steady so thanks, i'll take notice of that.
Sounds as if you’re doing okay Constance - you’re eating a healthy diet and will lose weight. You looked great on your last photo!
Wish I could lose my stomach but it’s the gift from pred and doesn’t want to leave me having upped my dose. I’m working on it.
Thanks Terrie.💥
There's no way I want to lose weight though - I'm just fine as I am.
'Stomachs' are nearly always a problem.😉 That's the only place that I have too much of. My fault as I never exercised after the births of my two children (dr did warn me)!😂 As you know can't blame it on PMR as I lost over nearly 2 stone when it started - and I've never put it on again.
Keep happy - even in lockdown.🤨 Hope life gets a little easier as the year progresses. 💐💐
I was the same after my children. Was so skinny and didn’t retain any weight so didn’t think I had to tone the muscles. I can cope with that it’s the water wings below that shocked me as they just appeared - told it was pred related. It is what it is. I never lost weight with PMR.
Just want to get through this pandemic unscathed.
Keep safe Constance both of you. 🌹
Having our first jabs 5th March. Things move s l o w l y here in Germany.🤨
At least they’re organised.
Haven’t had ours due to supply issues- been advised to call surgery midweek as expecting delivery. They’ll be coming to the house for hubby but when!!!! Fingers crossed as I have to have a procedure and consultant won’t do it unless I’m vaccinated. 🙂
Informative and interesting! Thanks very much!
PS Am getting the sense that blood glucose levels are key. And pred messes with that. I recently started tracking my blood glucose and was surprised to find that since starting pred I am pre-diabetic. I subsequently went very low carb, got my blood sugar down, feel better and have successfully tapered down pred dose by 2 mg. But going carb-free is hard, especially during lockdown.
Doesn't have to be carb-free - low and very careful selection is enough.
Blood sugar is key. My sister has gone so far as to wear a devise that reads blood sugar levels by an app on her iphone. She reads it before a meal, after the meal and inbetween. She is therefore learning what foods cause a spike and what to therefore avoid. I'm kind of wondering if I ought to consider doing that - this new medical tech I'm not yet familiar with. I know now I have to avoid sugars and gluten, and as many carbs like potatoes and rice as possible - I feel better when I do, but it is Soooo boring some days. I do cheat, a little, and I may suffer a little, but a little is OK.
I've heard a few complaining low carb is boring - and I really don't understand it! It does help to look at what I can eat as much as I like of and forget about the carbs I can't.
I've started a war here I think!?!🤪
There was a BBC 2 program some years ago “The Men who Made us Fat”kcet.org/shows/link-voices/...
It was absolutely damning about HFCS on so many fronts ( not just obesity). The sharp rise in obesity was associated with its widespread introduction.
I had thought it was banned in the UK- clearly not.
It isn't used as much - until 2017 there was a quota cap so there wasn't enough available to be used in the large volumes of soft drinks. And since 2016 the "sugar tax" in the UK makes a difference
stegriff.co.uk/upblog/mythb....
Some individual countries in the EU ban it - the countries where no HFCS at all is used include India, Ireland, Sweden, Austria, Uruguay, and Lithuania.
You can find the series on YouTube too - the BBC version is either no longer available or not available outside the UK anyway. Just use your search engine.
Or, here they are!
First episode; Sugar in food: dailymotion.com/video/x2cxvfg
Second episode; Suoer-sizing portions: dailymotion.com/video/x2cxvgs
Third episode; Is it really healthy?: dailymotion.com/video/x2cxw8e
What are HFCSs?
high fructose corn syrup - I defined it in my reply further up the thread
Thank you, my husband, an eminent cardiologist, has been saying just this for years. A low fat diet causes you to eat more sugar, and does not satisfy you as normal fat cheese, cream etc., and the best tasting meat is 'marbled' i.e., has some fat in it. But you do hav ewatch the calories, particularly when on prednisolone, or diabetic type 2. Check the sugar content in low fat yoghurt, and the like, compared to full fat, and you will be surprised
Others might, but I wouldn't be surprised - this is a crusade I have been on since the 1970s! John Yudkin was my hero then!!
You have probably seen that article in the QJM, a couple of years ago - The Cholesterol Myth.Could it be that the vitamin D is another con by the pharmaceutical industry?
Vit D? No, I think there is a lot of basis to that and it isn't the pharma industry to look at there, supplements are a different kettle of fish. It is the only supplement I consider worth the money.
I never believed the cholesterol story either - didn't fit well with the facts somehow. I often wonder how much the great statin raid also affects vit D levels.
Interesting point, all that low fat intake, and what is fit D but fat soluble, plus the sunscreen ointment. Needed to prevent myeloma, but slapped on cricketers as if they are wearing war paint?
Cholesterol is the precursor - the substance that is processed in the skin to form vit D. Not just cricketers - the use of Factor 50 or protective dry suits by helicopter mummies on their toddlers has resulted in a return of rickets in children. Only this time it is in white middle class ones. Fear of melanoma has had unintentional results ...
Hi Constance, I've just started researching the same thing! I love my white bread, potatoes, crisps, and biscuits. The site address copied below (don't know how to insert as a link) explains the difference between good and bad or complex and simple carbs in straightforward terms.
......and you are as slim as a reed. I wouldn’t worry, moderation is all.
It is a beggar trying to get it right. I have lost a fair bit of weight, my bmi is quiet good but I have high (v) cholesterol and hypertension. I walk daily but my legs are shedding weight/muscle as you look at them possibly since starting on statins. Don't know why excess can't go off my belly. I have limited my carbs and most naughty stuff but beginning to wonder if it is worth it. I'll have a glass of wine whilst I consider.........🥂 (I only said 'most' naughty things and it is the weekend)
If you are losing muscle bulk since starting statins do speak to your doctor.
Was my suspicion of it being down to statins right then? Certainly got rid of hamster look although that has been going for a while.
It can happen with statins so it needs checking out - pred can also lead to myopathy but if it wasn't happening before it is a change that needs to be looked at.
Many thanks. Next week's to do list is being drawn up as we speak!
Have a telephone appt with gp tomorrow. Anything in particular I need to cover/discuss apart from obvious statement of relating muscle mass loss? Any advice gratefully received - having a few poor days brain wise!
Don't let them try to tell you it will be the pred!!!! Not sure really - do you have any other PMR-related problems?
No more than the usual - aching calf muscles, shoulder girdle - all more pronounced as I crawl to a taper from 6 to 5 1/2. Been trying 8 weeks now - more stop than dead slow! Main issues seem to be more pred related - cholesterol and hypertension. Weight loss seems to have plateaued.
" all more pronounced as I crawl to a taper from 6 to 5 1/2."That is probably your body telling you that you need 6 and 5.5 is a step too far. Beware!
Thought the adrenals may be starting to pratt around....
Possibly - but that usually addds to fatigue rather than aches
No shortage of fatigue, probably on the whole forum!
I was already underweight when diagnosed with PMR. Pred caused my blood sugar to escalate and in spite of giving up almost all "white" carbs (I too did not each much processed food but did consume a lot of wheat) the sugar level although it declined didn't get back to "normal" until I was down to about 5 mg pred. So can't say the carbs were bad for me, but in this instance the combination of carbs and pred certainly was. I am now I think verging on dangerously thin and trying to eat more of everything including carbs.
I don't know if this will help but here goes. I didn't want to eat the keto way because I had already lost of lot of weight before diagnosis even though I was 'comfort eating' having Mars bars and ice cream. It's no wonder my inflammation markers were so high! However, after diagnosis I went back to this typical eating plan I've had for the last umpteen years. A glass of warm water and Vit D soluble tablet when I get up to get the digestive system going + a few supplements like Calcium and Vit D. An hour later, a bowl of porridge (no milk) and a prune. Mid morning, a small piece of brown bread toast with slices of cheddar cheese. Lunch can consist of a wrap with salad + feta cheese, or scrambled eggs. The evening meal is usually chicken, lots of veg, small potato. Sometimes pasta, sometimes chilli carne, slow cook casserole, etc. I have a small banana + full fat Greek yoghurt for dessert. I've cut out as much sugar as I possibly can - no cakes, pastries, no processed food, but I do have a glass of cranberry juice (with no added sugar) to warn off UTI's. That's the typical eating plan although it's modified from time to time.
Wow - that's one lot of food - even if it is spread over the day.
Strangely enough a friend told me that she couldn't survive on the small amount of food I eat during the day! However, I'm very active so I think this helps. For me anyway, the balance is seems right. Sufficient complex carbs, protein, full fat every so often. I used to love sugary desserts, cakes, pastries and I particularly missed Christmas pudding and cake but I feel so much better not eating them and after a while I didn't feel deprived. Good luck ....
I have a similar diet to you, but no bread/ wraps. I also feel it’s a lot of food but I want to get enough calcium and other nutrients. To me, that is the most important consideration until I am finished with (fingers crossed) prednisone.
Totally agree with you regarding getting sufficient calcium and other nutrients from food although I do take a calcium and Vit D supplement. I've cut down on added salt but make sure I get some through cooked veg to avoid too low sodium levels.
I think salted nuts (sodium) might be a problem with prednisone- I try to avoid salt altogether. When I was on a higher dose (60mg down to 20 mg or so), and I was eating anything I could get my hands on, I ate unsalted nuts, preferably raw. Prednisone, I believe, can make you retain sodium and fluid.
When I was hospitalised a couple of years ago they had to give me salt tablets because the sodium was so low. Was told to stop 'LoSalt'.
Oh, fair enough. It just goes to show how different we all are. Best wishes.
With advent of PMR/pred I gave up even the small amount of prepared foods (like packaged pizza) we ate. Eventually I discovered through a fortuitous conversation with a passing acquaintance that I was salt deficient. Taking in more salt resulted in the elimination of a number of apparently unrelated health issues.
Thanks for this information, I’m going to do some research as I’d always just assumed that we’d get enough sodium naturally through our diet.
Depends on the diet. I used a calculator from the internet to measure how much sodium I was taking in during a usual day. I even tried to over-estimate a bit. Double checked what I could with nutrition information supplied on package label when available, so I'm reasonably sure I was quite accurate. I had been taking in less that 1000 mg sodium per day, closer to 900, since dietary changes when starting pred. This is less than half the already fairly low recommended amount of 2000.
Symptoms included waking up with a headache which would not go away with painkiller, but did when I ate. This vanished overnight although they had been increasing in severity and frequency for some time. Other symptoms included a "skippy" heartbeat which I'd actually experienced off and on for years, even pre-PMR. My skin became healthier in that it rebounded better from the "pinch" test for seeing whether you're hydrated. My blood pressure had started to increase, with more salt it reverted to my usual low normal. I think there were a couple of other things, maybe very cold legs at night, but can't remember now, it's been about 2.5 years. These symptoms have never come back. I make sure to salt my food now, and sometimes I taste salt and if it tastes good I know I need more. If it tastes yuck I know my level is good. Sodium has since been tested through usual bloodwork and no issues at all. It was, as far as I know, never tested before.
Thank you, that’s very helpful. I like the fact that you can monitor it a bit by noticing the taste.
I was talking to a person on the same art tour we were on in the Netherlands. I said to her that once again I couldn't have any wine with dinner because I'd woken up with a headache and taken painkillers. She said I needed more salt. She told me to put a bit of salt on my side plate and take a little on my fingertip to taste it. If it tasted good, almost sweet, it meant I needed more. It tasted delicious. She said I should keep on eating it in tiny bits until it no longer tasted good. I didn't get there that evening, although I did not have a headache the following morning. But the next evening I had more salt and all of a sudden it tasted vile! So it really does work. But only with the plain salt, not with salted food. 🧂
You get far more than you want if you eat bread and other manufactured baked goods because not only is there sodium in the ingredients but they add salt when making the. Then there is bacon and other meat products like sausages of all sorts. But if you remove all of those sort of things from your diet you can get to a pretty low level - HeronNS and I both have exceptionally low salt intakes as a result. I dn't think it affects me as it did her - but who knows.
For me - bacon often - sausages occasionally - cake twice a week - half a lovely crispy roll for breakfast every day. Not a bad life.😂😂
My new goal is to consistently eat 10 vegetables and fruits (limiting fruit to 2 because I don’t tolerate fructose well), and incorporate the Blue Zone theory (5 zones with longevity) with more plant based diet while not not eliminating meat, Part of my plan includes increasing variety of vegetables which I think is good for the gut. I do have steel cut oatmeal with a piece of 95 percent dark chocolate melted and half a banana, green tea for breakfast, sometimes pumpkin oatmeal with coconut kefir. It’s easy to throw a bunch of vegetables tossed with oregano or spices and a small turkey patty or piece of fish in the oven.
My A1C was 6.5 last time I had blood drawn. My primary told me to cut down on the "white starches". so I figure they are bad. Does chocolate cake count as a "white Starch", sigh! I read a health book many decades ago. I have always had problems with portion control. The book said that a serving of food should be the size of a deck of playing cards. When I pay attention to that comparison I usually do okay. Unless it is Parmesan Oven Fries, then all bets are off. Is it a "white starch" if it is covered with parmesan cheese? Try the playing card comparison. I lost over 20# just paying attention to portion size, and getting rid of all HFCS. If I want cake I bake it myself, from scratch, not a mix. My spice cake with cream cheese frosting is to die for. After I bake the cake I freeze it, then cut it up in proper portion sizes and re- freeze it. Then I thaw one proper portion at a time. 15 seconds in the microwave makes the cream cheese frosting just the right ooziness. Right now I am having serious vascular or neurologic blood pressure issues so have lost so much weight I can eat what I want. Unfortunately I have no appetite. It's so unfair. PMR/GCA sucks!
I meant PMR/GCA the disease sucks, not the web-site. You people rock and I would be lost without the advice and support from this web site.
I've been doing low-carb for years and it has enabled me to lose weight and bring my blood sugar levels down. But recently I've been reading a lot about gut health, microbiomes, leaky gut etc and decided to add a few carbs back for fibre and variety. I sometimes eat sweet potatoes, or new potatoes cooked and then eaten cold as the starch turns into a long chain fatty acid or resistant starch. maybe every few weeks some brown rice. I still stay clear of pasta and bread apart from very occasionally. I try to avoid sugar as it is evil, but obviously now and then a bit of cake or whatever won't kill me.
I've learnt many many things on this site, but.... "sugar is evil"???😂😂🤪
Watch this!
prednisonepharmacist.com/ed...
Yes but.....? I eat all those things (or most of them)🤪 and my sugar/salt , etc etc are all in the normal range and i still lose weight if I don't watch it!!!!!!😂
My Dad seems to live on cornflakes and currant teacakes and is as skinny as a racing snake. Wish I'd enherited his genes :). He is also one of those people 'who never sit still' though, so maybe that explains it?
That's not like me I'm afraid. My recliner is my favourite friend.😂
Update on low carb diet
Weight loss and carbs for PMR
Flare at 50mg and carbs
Carbs and PMR
