Turning over in bed: I wonder if anyone finds... - PMRGCAuk

PMRGCAuk
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Turning over in bed

Trulyscrumpious
Trulyscrumpious

I wonder if anyone finds turning over in bed difficult. I find it a huge effort and feel like a beached whale as I struggle to do lots of wiggles! Is it PMR or could it be my 82 year old body, which also has some arthritis? But it is not so much painful as very difficult and exhausting. Comments appreciated.

96 Replies
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DorsetLady
DorsetLadyPMRGCAuk volunteer

Unfortunately it’s probably a combination of all three!!

Not a very helpful answer I know - but realistic!

You are not alone I can assure you. 😳

Like the Goddess says it is all three , and even in young age if our conditions give us pain and stiffness it can be the same.

I have started moving my legs and knees up into a foetal position first , then putting my hand behind me on the bed for support in the direction I am moving in , as I turn the arm that was below me I spread out in the same way as the leading arm to help the support as I finish the turn , then slowly straighten my legs again .

You get used to it and it does help take the strain off you back.

Thanks. I’ll try it.

Hidden
HiddenAmbassador
in reply to Trulyscrumpious

I use the handles on my mattress to move myself. If you haven't got them and it's a divan I ran a sheet under the bed and tied it round a book that wouldn't slide under the bed and made sure the other end was near enough to grab. I have packed pillows against one side to keep me nearer the side of the bed but you do have to be sure you won't roll off the bed in your sleep!

I struggled many years ago when first diagnosed and a lady on another forum said 'slither sheets. I used the search engine and bought 'slippery sheets' sometimes called 'easy sheets'. Slightly more expensive as they have satin as an big square insert. The bottom of the sheet is not satin, neither are the fitted bits..........That enables you to not slide out of the bed as your feet are not on satin. I still have them they are now about 10 years old and still going strong.

PMRpro
PMRproModerator

It is one of the recognised and listed effects of PMR. I used to have to turn over by numbers, planning each move carefully. And I was only in my early 50s.

Thanks . It’s interesting to know it is recognised side effect, which is what I wanted to know. I use the same sort of tactics, move by move but it’s tedious. An arthritic shoulder doesn’t help.

This was one of the main things which troubled me before I started taking pred, and the vanishing of this disability the confirmation I had that pred had worked its miracle. I was 68 at the time.

paulus65
paulus65
in reply to HeronNS

Exactly my experience also - that and difficulty with getting my arms into shirt sleeves.

Yes sleeves too. Taking a jacket off too is difficult. I grab the jacket or shirt at the back of the neck , lean forward and pull it over my head. Not very dignified in public!

Oh definitely! In the early days of PMR, I could hardly get out of bed without assistance - and if the assistance was pulling on my arms, that hurt too. I am 20 years your junior. This symptom improved greatly as the Prednisalone got to work. If it persists, I would mention it to your doctor though.

I had no trouble before I got PMR but I have been on Pred for over 4 years and no improvement, though I have learnt to cope.

Doing the very gentle ballet arm warm up exercises ( not the overhead ones) and slow tai chi basic arm movements have really helped get less pain and twinges when I put my clothes on .

Join the 'beached whale' club. It is indeed tedious that so many 'spoons' are used up in the simple task of getting out of bed, or repositioning during sleep. This effort is then doubled, as like you, I have an issue with my shoulder since I had a bone replaced at Christmas. So I really do empathise!

I am 60 so it is not age. I have some Arthritis in my knees but this is minor. I conclude therefore it is indeed resultant of PMR itself. It is a bit of a bugger though when you wake up desperate for the loo isn't it?

I find rolling onto side in fetal position and using good arm to push myself up (as mentioned by Blearyeyed) does indeed reduce back strain. Alternatively the slide under the mattress bed guard rail is effective as well and reasonably cheap to buy. I don't have one but my Mum did as she had severe Arthritis.

Thanks Marilyn1959. It’s some comfort to know I am not alone. The foetal position is problematical as I have a loose hip joint as a result of a replacement op going wrong. But I have learnt to cope.

Ooh!

You can try the same movement but by only moving one leg into foetal and then as you begin the turn putting the foot of that bent leg flat to the bed to help to strengthen and support the turn of the other one .

Allowing the weaker leg to gently lean in towards the other helps too.

It sounds complicated but I’ll try. I may stick with my own strategy but thanks for advice.

I couldn’t even pull a sheet over me, let alone move in bed until I started Prednisone. To this day (now off pred 2 years later) I remind myself when I roll over that 2 years ago I couldn’t do that! #thankfulforprednisone

Before my PMR diagnosis I was at one point using the pillow to use as a lever to turn myself over. Getting out of bed was another mission taking about 20 minutes, so I eventually decided to sleep sitting up, as it was easier. We also purchased a new mattress & pillows thinking these could be the problem! Post diagnosis and the wonderful pred, turning over & getting out of bed was no longer a problem.

Thankfully my problem turning over is not as acute as yours was and I have learnt to cope, though it is still a big effort. I never had trouble before PMR, and was put on Pred within days of the sudden onset . I was lucky to have a quick diagnosis. And the pred does not help- though it might be worse of course without. It thanks for responding.

Hidden
HiddenAmbassador

Just looking at the answers which revolve around the beginning of PMR and then your one about getting sleeved clothes off. What pred dose are you currently on. Had you been diagnosed when you joined? Just wondering if you have gone past your correct dose.🌻

Trulyscrumpious
Trulyscrumpious
in reply to Hidden

I am currently on 4mg and have come down from 15mg 4 years ago. I only discovered this forum earlier this year. I feel ok on 4mg- though fatigue still bad. I’m not going to rush into next reduction. Thanks for your comments.

Hidden
HiddenAmbassador
in reply to Trulyscrumpious

I had terrible trouble with getting clothes on and off. Panic attack inducing! I am at 6mg and take 5mg coated at night and this has helped my morning stiffness. I then take 1mg mid morning. You are in that fatigue zone. Hope things pick up. 🌻

DorsetLady
DorsetLadyPMRGCAuk volunteer
in reply to Trulyscrumpious

Rush!!! - pray tell me what that is!

As I said earlier, probably a combination of things, but it might be worth trying an extra 1mg for a week to see if that helps. PMR can be stiffness without too much pain!

just as a matter of interest do you use gel for arthritis - if so, do you apply it last thing at night? I find arthritic joints seize up during the night, so it's worth experimenting sometimes.

Do you ever use Pred for arthritis? At times I do (never more than 2mg, and not often) but my arthritis is inflammatory so??????

DorsetLady
DorsetLadyPMRGCAuk volunteer
in reply to Constance13

Doesn’t do anything for mine, but as yours is inflammatory then it makes sense it does help. Prescribed for RA and PA.

PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to Trulyscrumpious

I agree with Poopadoop - if you have this much should stiffness you are probably not on enough pred and the inflammation is lurking. It may be worth speaking to your doctor about shoulder steroid injections or trying a bit higher oral pred - anything under 7mg is not really a problem and below 5mg absolutely not. But an extra 1mg once the problem is dealt with may make a big difference.

Constance13
Constance13
in reply to PMRpro

Just asked Dorset Lady that! The trouble is we don't read all the posts through (some are far too long) before we answer.

Thanks for advice. I have appointment re my shoulder on Sept 30th. Will consider going back to 5mg- it seems to be the right level for me.

PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to Trulyscrumpious

Then that is where you belong! For now at least - you will get lower, just not yet. Try again with 1/2mg in a couple of months.

If we suddenly find we can turn over in bed easily, does that mean that the PMR has gone? Does it go as quickly as it comes? Mine came overnight.

PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to Trulyscrumpious

No - just that you are on enough pred!!! It has gone when you are able to reduce the dose steadily and get to zero without a return of symptoms.

Rimmy
Rimmy
in reply to PMRpro

Agree with you PMRpro - likely 'not enough Pred' to deal with this classic PMR symptom - which evaporated for me 3 hours after my first dose. I realise there can be other causes but I strongly suspect this as the most obvious one !!

This was one of my first symptoms with pmr

I believe it’s due to some naughty inflammatory things called cytokines which are most active between 4 and 8 am. I go to bed perfectly able to turn over in bed until around 4am when I cannot move without intense pain and I feel as though I have been kicked in the back by a horse!! I’ve had PMR for three years now and this pattern has been there throughout and regardless of dosage of pred.

Thanks. Interesting info. I will try and notice if it gets worse after 4am. Fortunately I don’t get pain just the effort to move.

My 72 yr old body has the same problem, and the cat laying on me doesn't help!

yogabonnie
yogabonnie
in reply to Marcy47

favorite comment ever. Cat laying on me doesn't help!!!

Manchild
Manchild
in reply to Marcy47

Think that’s bad, try two cats!

Blearyeyed
Blearyeyed
in reply to Manchild

They think they are trying to save you from yourself by sitting on you so you can't get up!😋😂😂

To ease moving people in bed in Social Care we use Slide Sheets they make moving a lot easier but not sure about sleeping on them though.

To move in Bed I tend to get up, stretch a bit and then lie down in a new position.

I have, also, found taking the Pred later in the day has given me less of a problem at night.

Yes I struggle as well have to get myself geared up to do it and to get out of bed in the mornings

You have almost brought a bit of humour to this disabling illness.

Not only was it a huge ordeal to roll over in bed , but I couldn’t get up off a toilet unless I had a large counter top or something to hang on to. If the toilet was a stand alone I would be stuck there. 😘

That was my first symptom of pmr. Turning over was like planning a trip to the seaside.

YuliK age 76

PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to YuliK

Planning a trip to the seaside is usually fun though ...

HeronNS
HeronNS
in reply to PMRpro

No, being at the seaside is fun!

PP Hi there

At that stage of my pmr symptoms, I have to admit, that not turning the correct way to get out of bed, was a serious situation for me.

I had to go to the loo at least twice a night. Gaud, was that a struggle. TMI. 😂😂😂

PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to YuliK

I rejoice that I have not got to that stage! I may go once - you know how you wake up and lie there wondering if you need to go? I decided it makes sense to go as soon as you wake and then I usually go back to sleep more easily ;)

Yep. Turning over, pulling the covers over my shoulders, all difficult and painful. Then, once out of bed, trying to reach behind to hook my bra became torture.!

Recent.

Recently, during a flare, I was at the doctors, and needed to ask the xray tec to unhook my bra so I could Put on the gown. She came back and hooked it for me , once test completed.

Just a few of the challenges of being 72 and PMR.

Kind regards, Jerri

PMR diagnosed 2013, age 67

The answer is "no bra". I chucked mine away years ago!!😂

If you MUST wear them tie them up in front of you and twist them to the back.

PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to Constance13

Not when you are my size ...

Constance13
Constance13
in reply to PMRpro

No comment!😀😀😀

YuliK
YuliK
in reply to PMRpro

PP, Boasting again 😂

Manchild
Manchild
in reply to PMRpro

Remember, there are men on here too!

Blearyeyed
Blearyeyed
in reply to PMRpro

Yep I'm with you , I have bed bras as well as day ones with the cross over backs and no wiring . If I didn't turning in bed would be even more of a chore , and the back and shoulder pain from going all " Women's Lib with the forward facing wobblies" wass something horrible even before PMR.

They don't 'wobble' if they're small enough!😂😂

Would chuck the bra, but I gave up soccer years ago🤣😂🤪

YuliK
YuliK
in reply to Constance13

I've been searching for a bra that fastens in the front. Anyone any ideas.

Constance dear, twisting a tied bra, is an almost impossibility over my pred belly 😂

Constance13
Constance13
in reply to YuliK

Never thought of all these difficulties. I've nearly always been relatively slim.

The mind boggles!😂😂💐

Hidden
HiddenAmbassador
in reply to Constance13

I tried the fasten at the front twist thing.....how are you supposed to get your arms under and through the straps then? I could barely put a t shirt on at the time. 🤣🤣🤣

Constance13
Constance13
in reply to Hidden

Practice makes perfect.😂😂

PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to Constance13

My usually size 34 (German size) daughter required a 30H bra during pregnancy...

Constance13
Constance13
in reply to PMRpro

Don't recognise the numbers! It MUST be a long time since I bought my last bra.

PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to Constance13

The 30 is the under the bust measurement - 30 is very small, she actually needed a 28 when not pregnant. An H cup is large enough to get your head in ... ;)

Constance13
Constance13
in reply to PMRpro

😂😂😂😂😂

Hidden
HiddenAmbassador
in reply to PMRpro

🤣🤣🤣

Blearyeyed
Blearyeyed
in reply to PMRpro

What while wearing it !!😋😂😂😂

Try doing that with PMR!!!😂😂😂😂😘

PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to Blearyeyed

Don't be silly - there wouldn't be enough room for both!!!!!

Blearyeyed
Blearyeyed
in reply to PMRpro

Silly me , you might need a bigger cup size again for those sorts of acrobatics , unless you have stretchy bra cups and a pinhead like mine!😋😂😂😂😘

Blearyeyed
Blearyeyed
in reply to YuliK

Some of my sports bras which I prefer now in general do it up with zips or clips at the front , I also have those softer pull on one's .

Z bra has a sorts version with forward clip and zip and they are also minimizers.

Triumph has a good selection of one's that reduce the pain and have wider straps some are forward fasteners ( and actually pretty!) and I think Contessa and M and S usually have some in their collections but you might need to check on line.

YuliK
YuliK
in reply to Blearyeyed

Thanks so much Blearyeyed for the info. I shall definitely look into it. 👍

I have been going 'lady commando braless' for quite a few weeks. Not very comfortable at my age. 😀

Blearyeyed
Blearyeyed
in reply to YuliK

48 and I can't do it.

PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to Blearyeyed

Are Z-bras also OK for non-post-surgery use?

Blearyeyed
Blearyeyed
in reply to PMRpro

Sorry , what does non post surgery mean exactly?

They are breathable fabric with softer seaming and without wiring using a crossover back and extra wide elastic with the clip and zip front . They are very similar in style and shape as post op bras or those used for breast feeding .

I'm going to look it up.

PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to Blearyeyed

The website that came up suggested they are for post-surgery use ...

Blearyeyed
Blearyeyed
in reply to PMRpro

The Z bra ( or medical Z bras ) as well as being a good supportive bra is the one that is recommended by alot of the sites I just looked on for post and pre surgery support .

I never knew , I was just recommended one for sport post pregnancy years ago when my cup size went up by three sizes and the weight was uncomfortable and made my straps dig in . I've been using them for sport or when I had more back and shoulder pain ever since , they are very comfortable.

PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to Blearyeyed

They LOOK comfy - not sure they come big enough but I won't know without exploring the concept.

Blearyeyed
Blearyeyed
in reply to PMRpro

I believe they go up to at least a GG , probably higher on official sites.

I buy mine via eBay , Amazon or sports shops online when they are on sale as it's alot cheaper than the main sites.

They are very easy to get on are good at night when the softer bralets aren't supportive enough when you are having alot of pain.

PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to Blearyeyed

The site I looked at seemed to suggest only DD cups in smaller sizes. Which is a common thing.

Constance13
Constance13
in reply to PMRpro

I wonder what all our male friends on here think of this post?😂😂 But, actually, it's not (completely) off piste.

Surely our "male friends" have females in their lives, and can understand this very difficult problem. I suspect some of the men have experienced painful shoulders and difficulty getting dressed. Especially donning shirts, reaching back to put arm into coat sleeves etc.

Just sayin......

Yes i’m Sure. It’s amazing how a simple question about turning over in bed has produced such a large number of far ranging topics. Thanks to all our wonderful participants.

Hidden
HiddenAmbassador
in reply to Trulyscrumpious

The "simple" questions relate to more of us....

You are absolutely right , plus conversation about bras isn't totally off the topic of the post turning in bed for females , big and small , as movement of the chest , or back pain because of it, can have a real impact on the ease we can move in bed.

Hey men, I think I need to start a jock strap post!

No offense, ladies, but it is getting a little much!

PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to Manchild

You don't HAVE to read ...

Manchild
Manchild
in reply to PMRpro

It’s like a burning building..,.,,,

Blearyeyed
Blearyeyed
in reply to Manchild

I am pretty sure we would all happily listen to and digest the replies of Men and what makes things like turning in bed hard for them , and what answers Men have to help the Male sufferers solve it.

If a conversation about jockstraps and what types were best was practical in Men's advice for helping their symptoms with PMR related pain it would definitely be worth writing and discussing and I know the Women would not object to it or would just pass the replies that don't relate to them.

And the women on the forum would actually be happy to see that the Men were giving each other much needed or useful advice .

I agree, It has gone on too long.

Thanks for this info.. i have bouts of bursitis in my shoulder, to go with PMR flares. Cant go braless, so I will be looking for these you mention. 🙏🏽

DorsetLady
DorsetLadyPMRGCAuk volunteer
in reply to Purplecrow

Arthritic shoulders have decided I need front fastening bras!

Yes, definitely PMR. When I was first diagnosed, my doctor said it’s a big indicator for PMR. He said, along with the usual symptoms, as soon as someone mentions not being able to turn over in bed, he immediately suspects PMR. I found it extremely painful before starting on Pred. It’s still not easy with stiffness etc but not painful now.

Thanks GerriMc- very reassuring.

Good Luck Trulyscrumptious! I can only change my side by sitting up with legs over the side of the bed then lie down on the other side. Simple, but definitely not simple to roll over whilst still lying down!

Gillian

I sure understand what you are saying. When PMR hit me at 3:00 in the morning-- I really thought I was dying! I could not even pull on the sheets. Not easy when you are 81 and live alone. That is my biggest fear now- another attack! As of right now I am down to 2.5 and doing ok. Itch all over- ankles sweel and hips hurt some. Hope you are doing better.

My onset was very sudden like you- went to bed ok and woke hardly able to walk. I am 82 and live alone too but have an alarm round my neck to call for help if I need it in emergency. Can you sign up to this system to allay your fears? I am itchy too - it it’s due to very dry skin and I have to use Diprobase. Have you tried that- you can get it on prescription. Dry skin is common in old age. I should see your doctor about swollen ankles- may not be caused by PMR. We tend to blame it for everything. Best wishes stonecreek.

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