I m in London, taking care of Teo, I woke up to this news! GP's are going to see groups of 15 patients at a time.. got me thinking how any of the GPs in Spain I've tried out would fare under this new scheme.. Hahaha
Interesting NHS news: I m in London, taking care of... - PMRGCAuk
Interesting NHS news
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Gaijin
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Thank you for the link, interesting. Isn’t that exactly what we do here? Discuss our shared medical conditions, help one another with tips, shared information, sympathy and some human compassion and encouragement. The NHS is catching up.
Enjoy you time with Teo.
Actually CT is right when he says we do that here on this forum. The report mentions ninety minute sessions led by a facilitator who has had only one day training?? Facilitating a meaningful session for participants would be no easy task methinks!
So could this be construed as GP's passing the buck or might it genuinely help to free GP'S to focus on patients who really need their specialist help.
At my surgery we now see a nurse for minor ailments such as UTI and other infections. This is efficient use of resources and is cost effective. Maybe the group approach to long standing conditions isn't such a bad idea as it first seems?
Still only 2 minutes with the doctor then!!!
Eventually, GPS will become redundant.. When I was diagnosed with PMR, I got absolutely no information on anything related to the disorder from the GP.
• in reply toGaijin
Same here Gaijin, my doctor didn't have a clue what was going on with my symptoms. So I managed to see a rheumatologist after a junior locum (female) suggested I might have PMR. When I told my registered doctor the diagnosis of PMR his comment was "I'm surprised" 
Not as surprised as I was that my registered doctor didn't have a clue!
I was one of the few lucky ones. On diagnosis, I was told all about medication for PMR, possible side effects and to be aware of the symptoms of GCA should it arise and how important it would be to seek urgent treatment. I was so grateful to this lovely GP when ten years down the line I did develop GCA but unfortunately was no longer with him. He even used to phone my monthly blood test results to me!
I thought that too, that it could be like having a support group such as this one, and it would benefit people that aren't connected to the internet for whatever reason. Maybe if the GP had, say 15 PMR patients, the GP would "prepare" for the group consult. better.
PMRproAmbassador
Yes - heard that in the "what the papers say" bit on Sky. Having worked for marketing companies as a translator - sounds like a focus group to me! What will happen to "patient confidentiality"? Think too how long it might take to collect 15 patients with the same problem to attend a group?
But really - I attend the doctor because I have exhausted all my own options that don't require skilled input and have done the waiting game. The thought of spending 90 mins waiting for my personal problem not to be dealt with really doesn't appeal.
They said they were going to ask people to sign a confidentiality agreement. I actually think it would be quite good to have a very local group of people with PMR getting together, even though I was sceptical when I first heard the idea. I am sure the patients would be able to train the doctor even.
It could be an interesting group with patients reporting 'erectile dysfunction' maybe it would be a show and tell group! oh no matron
• in reply to
Stiff upper lip required to attend that one!
• in reply to
Indeed!
I heard this too Gaijin. Interesting concept and, as PMRpro says, it sounds like a twist on the Focus Group idea to me. Mmmm...
How about this as an alternative: 1 Patient seeing a group of 15 GPs at a time? Not a very efficient use of NHS resources (what's new?..), but at least the Patient would get a more balanced medical opinion.
And if the panel of 15 GPs don't agree about symptoms and treatment?
Formal Resolution Procedure: FFIIGGHHHTTT!!! 
Out of 15 GP's I wonder how many would know much about PMR,would they all say it's a 2 year condition!
I saw five different doctors in the six months it took to diagnose PMR! The physiotherapist realised what it was in the end and wrote to my surgery to suggest blood tests! 🙁
It took over 18 months ,and an optician s letter to diagnose mine ,Gruelling time working with it in a terrible state . Another self employed worker !No apology just one of the doctors slapping them selves on the back after the optician alerted them . Maybe group discussions of similar symptoms would help them to see past the end of their own noses and stop being so afraid of being wrong therefore being vague to protect themselves .
Hahahaha.. I had a panal of rheumies decide whether I was a candidate for a very expensive, radiation- loaded test (PET-CAT) to rule out LVV when on this forum, I was correctly told that it would be a waste of money and an unnecessary risk as it would certainly be negative after my prolonged prednisone treatment... Sure enough, it was negative..
• in reply tomarkbenjamin57
I would think that, perhaps the group would come up with a better answer than the doctor. That would put the cat amongst the pigeons
piglette• in reply to
It seems people are going to be allowed to chat amongst themselves during the sessions and perhaps train their GP!!
• in reply tomarkbenjamin57
Well balanced comment Mark! Will end up like "Gardeners Question Time"! (More civilised!) Or worse like Question Time! The security firms already looking at this one!!!
I've been volunteered to NHS expert patients programme.It is meant to help with various aspects of long term health conditions.Its a 6 week course where you meet with other patients with different health issues....
I really don't want to go...its the long term bit that I don't want to accept and would I feel any better attending.??
The idea is the courses help you manage the condition to avoid hospital admissions/excessive GP visits. A study found that the healthcare professionals expert patients encountered did not accept their status. In the case of diabetics, for example, they had their medication confiscated in A&E and not administered then in a timely manner. The whole point of expert patient training was to avoid that!
I did discuss it with Prof Mackie - and the conclusion we came to was it probably was a waste of resources for PMR/GCA patients. There would have to be more training for medical staff than for the patients and really - how often do we need recourse to non-expert healthcare professionals?
If my GP could find 15 other patients with GCA, I might be tempted to give it a go!
It was actually a max of 15, so presumably they will have smaller groups. I assume they will go for larger groups initially though of the more ‘popular’ illnesses.
Smaller groups? Probably just me on my own then!!
It would be interesting to see if there are any others with GCA. As you say probably unlikely. I just have PMR and live in a small village. My GP gave the impression she had dozens of patients with it, I then discovered I was the only one.
Dozens of patients? She makes it sound like treating coughs and colds.
My GP admitted that he had seen three patients with GCA but never treated one except me. So he has let me treat myself really.
I have pretty well given up with my GP so they will learn nothing new about PMR in my case. This was her first job as a GP, I think she did not want to admit that she did not really have much experience even of coughs and colds.
Personally, hearing a GP say "I'm not sure/I don't know - but I know someone who does..." makes me have more faith...
I agree 100% PMRpro..
Absolutely, there's no shame in not knowing and very often we learn from not knowing.
As I've said before my doctor told me that he was gutted because he missed the GCA.
Totally agree. Doesn’t matter how much experience they may have, to actually say I need help here is to be admired. The neurologist Henry Marsh (Do No Harm) was on radio the other day saying that when he was younger it was considered wrong to ask the more senior surgeons for advice and you just staggered on, he said he had probably let a lot of people down because of this.
"Reports that say that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know. And if one looks throughout the history of our country and other free countries, it is the latter category that tend to be the difficult ones." Donald Rumsfeld.
Me too ,it's the vague non committal I worry about . I don't object to I don't know . Thats fine it means they are still interested enough to find out .
I was diagnosed within a week of seeing a locum at my GPs surgery when I couldn't walk, after he ordered blood tests. Thru the forum I asked if there was others locally with PMR and within 2 weeks 2 ladies private messaged me and we started meeting for coffee and support which continues 3 years later. I met a new neighbour socially just 1 year ago , and I said about PMR and she had it too! And lives next door but one. Was I lucky to find others locally. We certainly help each other. Valerie
We already have local support groups which I do find very useful. Should we suggest that the groups occasionally have a knowledgeable speaker? Having suffered NHS coffee I’ll pass on that.
Not feasible in rural areas except possibly for one or two of the more common conditions.
PMRproAmbassador
According to the senior GP-person on Sky at the moment - it's aimed at the likes of arthritis, diabetes and obesity patients to discuss what to eat, how to exercise and so on and to try to reduce the repetition of advice.
Well folks - how many of us got useful advice from our GP? The first I saw couldn't diagnose PMR without blood markers and the second, who could and did, had the script written before I sat down - I never had any opportunity to ask any questions. Which is why I'm here sharing what I know that I never learned from my doctor...
• in reply toPMRpro
Keep doing it PMRpro, your a greatly respected resource! IMHO
Initially I was a bit sceptical, but thinking about it, I think it is a good idea in that you meet other people with your problem and can give feedback to the GP, so it may be helpful to them too, as well as getting together with other local people who have your problem. They were talking about 90 minute sessions.
Can you imagine 15 of us being done and dusted in 90 mins?
Apparently it is more of a chat session, I wouldn’t mind meeting people locally with PMR. My GP gives the impression there are dozens of them, I am pretty sure there are not even 15. The groups are supposed to be 10-15, so there may still be a problem in my village. I am not sure it is really aimed at us anyway, more things with lots of people affected such as diabetes, back pain and arthritis. People can put forward ideas on diet etc. I think the GP just sits back and listens or goes to sleep. People may just get together afterwards for coffee rather than visiting their GP all the time. I think it may work. I used to run a local group for arthritis when I was much younger and we had over forty people coming every month. I am not sure what effect it has on GP appointments, if any, on the other hand.
You'd think if there are dozens they'd be better at looking after you...
That is why I am suspicious. My official GP who made out she knew everything about PMR it turned out the only patient she had with PMR was ME. The good thing about her was she was always 100 per cent wrong so I just had to do the opposite. It would have been a bit of a problem if she were inconsistent.
I'm sticking with this forum thanks
It might appeal to older people who do not have a computer, they still exist! The fact we like the forum, having these groups may also be a good idea for people to get together. It seems a doctor may not even be present for most of the time there will just be a facilitator, so basically a chat for everyone.
I think confidentiality will be a big problem. I don’t see the need for advice re obesity when last year G.P.s were referring people to weight watchers and handing out vouchers. What happened to being treated as an individual? A lot of sufferers have more than one condition that can affect how they are managed. We have paid for the NHS and deserve 21st century care not this .
It seems that they are really going to be discussion groups and a doctor may not be there all the time. It will just be run by a facilitator who could be non medical. I personally would quite like to join a small group of local people with PMR so I can talk to them face to face and even get together for a coffee or whatever. They are going to ask people to sign a confidentiality agreement re security. Also they are looking at single conditions it seems such as diabetes or arthritis. I suppose it may be a better way of getting obese people to do something who may not want to go to weight watchers or are unable to get there.
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