Adcal-D3 clashing

[Reethebeat]

Hallo, my doctor has prescribed Adcal-D3. I have been taking MacuShield for eyes along with Centrum multivitamin for women over 50. Any views on taking all this would be welcome, just wondering if I should drop some of them.

[HeronNS]

I keep reading that the average multivitamin is a waste of money. I used to take one (also Centrum) for years but now just take targeted supplements. I take D3, of course, K2 (for the bones) and alternate a complete E with a complete B, alternating so I don't get too much, but I feel that these two have helped my osteoarthritis so I don't want to drop them entirely. I think I get plenty of everything else through food. Your MacuShield is, I assume, a targeted supplement so I won't speak to that as I'm doing something similar, but you could probably stop taking the Centrum.

[DavidMF in reply to HeronNS]

3 years & 9 months with PMR. After a lot of DSNS I've got down to 5mgs Pred. 3.5 early morning, 1.5 eve. Over the last three months I have developed osteoarthritis, started in my right finger, now in Hands wrists, causing heavy pain & stiffness in the morning slowly releasing until, afternoon. I believe in additional vitamins and have a set which I take each day. I did ask my Doctor if I was taking too much, giving her a list & amounts. "I don't have any knowledge to help" was the reply. As for the osteoarthritis in the finger at the time, "Nothing you can do about it" was the answer. Since then with the increasing spread of pains I've first wondered if it's the PMR try to return, or the system waking up after 3.75 years. I currently give my wife B Complex for her Underactive Thyroid, which currently is under control. Is this the same as Com. B ?

[HeronNS in reply to DavidMF]

I believe it's B6 which is supposed to be good for osteoarthritis. I used to take just that, then a few years ago thought it would be smarter to take the whole B complex as they work synergistically as far as I know, and beside the variety of vitamins available at our local pharmacy had improved over time. I did try stopping the B6 at one point and quite soon I thought it must have been making a difference so I started again. This is long before PMR. I was diagnosed with OA when I was 40 but I think I'd already had it starting in my neck before then. I also learned very early on that it's not a good idea to take aspirin to relieve the pain of arthritis. This now includes the other newer NSAIDS. They actually interfere with the regeneration of cartilage. I have no idea how I found this out, there must have been an article in a newspaper or something, because this is long before the internet. Considering I've had this diagnosis of OA for over thirty years I think I've done very well, all things considered, but have had the help of occasional visits for specific issues to various physiotherapists over the years.

I also take a fairly high dose of glucosamine, 1000 mg breakfast and supper. I don't know if this is a good idea or not but again, I notice the difference when I stop. I stopped before my PMR diagnosis because at the time I thought the PMR was just OA finally raging out of control and the glucosamine was useless, but after I found out it was a completely different disease I started taking it again, I'm at a stage now where I sometimes can't tell the difference between the two pains any more, although at one time it seemed very clear. I begin to wonder whether this is because PMR is now very much in remission, whether pre-induced or real, but the low dose of pred no longer has any effect on the OA, which it definitely did in the beginning. All my pains were gone in the early days of pred!

[nuigini in reply to HeronNS]

Heron, I've been taking Calcium and D since being diagnosed 4 years ago and added K2 about 2 years ago. Just curious how much K2 you take?

[HeronNS in reply to nuigini]

I think like Vitamin D an individual's needs may vary. My supplement is 100 mcg per capsule. Daily recommended dose is one capsule, but I take two, not at same time. I took two at first to give myself a good start. Then I cut back to one. What I then noticed was that my sensitive teeth which had seemed better for a while started to get sensitive again, so I thought maybe this had something to do with Vitamin K2 making sure my jaw and teeth were getting more calcium, so I went back to the two capsules again. It took a few months but my teeth seem much less sensitive again. I think someone posted somewhere that Australia actually has a RDI of 180 mcg per day, which is close to what I take. I've never heard any other recommendations for dosage. I've read that there is no known toxicity with Vitamin K2 although I suppose it's like anything else, be sensible. The main caveat is for those on warfarin type blood thinners. It's not likely to have quite as significant an effect as Vitamin K1, but should still be used with caution.

[nuigini in reply to HeronNS]

Thanks Heron. I currently take 100 mcg with my first dose of calcium (600 mg) and vitamin D (1000 mg) in the morning, three or 4 hours after prednisone. I take a second dose of calcium and D before bed. I too have very sensitive teeth. Perhaps I'll add K2 to the evening supplements as well to see if it makes a difference.

[HeronNS in reply to nuigini]

It will be interesting to know if it helps you too. It doesn't happen overnight, though - be warned!

[altywhite in reply to HeronNS]

This is interesting! Like nuigini I take my K2 in the morning but my capsules are only 70mcg. Have a problem with sensitive teeth also so I think I'll try taking another with my evening Adcal.

[HeronNS in reply to altywhite]

I'm sure it won't hurt. It will take a while to notice the difference. Let us know how things go.

[altywhite in reply to HeronNS]

Will do

[ConventCassie]

Agree with Heron. I took Centrum also for a couple of months and read the same thing so I stopped.

[piglette]

You do need to take vit D and calcium because of the side effects of the steroids. My feeling is that one should only take other supplements if you.

are found to be deficient or told to by your doctor, otherwise you tend to just boost the profits of the Supplement companies and empty your purse.

[HeronNS in reply to piglette]

Except Vitamin K2, which works with magnesium to send the calcium into the bones. Vitamin D cannot do that.

[PMRnewbie2017]

Thirty years ago when patients asked about multivitamin and mineral supplements, my advice was usually "don't waste your money, spend on good food instead". Now however I do take supplements having changed my mind about the quality and nutritional status of our food. Farming practices are not what they used to be.....

Is there a reason for you taking Macushield? It is very expensive and contains Carotenoids. Lutein is frequently mentioned as being essential for health of the macular. Carotenoids are found in dark green leafy veg.

Personally I would stop it and take a multivitamin and mineral which contains lutein. Holland and Barret ABC Plus (with the blue label) is what I take as it contains a full spectrum of ingredients including lutein, at worthwhile levels. It also contains magnesium and vit A which are essential for bone health. It does contain vit D too but combined with Adcal won't be a problem.

Finally, mineral trace elements are needed for our enzymes to function so they are just as important as the vitamins. But as the saying goes " you pay your money and make your choice"!!

[HeronNS in reply to PMRnewbie2017]

I completely agree about the quality of food. It is quite alarming really. Some of us are still lucky enough to be able to buy food seasonally from small family owned farms, or even grow a few vegetables ourselves in the summertime, but most people no longer have access to this kind of food, at least not in North America. Food is grown in depleted soil, often soaked with chemicals for at least part of its life. No one can convince me that this isn't contributing to the rise of many modern diseases. The best we can do is avoid food which has already been manufactured, or as some now call it, "foodlike" substances. At least use fresh produce as much as possible.

One of the issues with multivitamins is whether or not we actually absorb them effectively. Testing shows that at least some varieties have very low absorbability. They also come with their own not so friendly mix of binders, flavours, colours. It really is best to find well-grown food.

[DorsetLady PMRGCAuk volunteer]

In your case, at the moment, the most important to take is the Adcal.

Unless you have anything else wrong with you like arthritis then you probably don’t need your other supplements. I take a few, but as piglette says you’re just boosting other’s profits.

But as PMRNewbie2017 rightly says it’s your choice.

You can ask doctor/pharmacist, but they aren’t always very forthcoming - pharmacist might if they sell supplements!

[xdbx]

I also take MacuSave (less expensive than MacuShield) as a precaution against macula degeneration which is hereditary. My mother, her sister and their mother all went blind with it so I'm vunerable.

Apart from Vitamin D with Calcium and Vitamin K2 Mk7 I prefer to get all my other vitamins and minerals from food and I eat a carefully balanced, nutrient dense diet.

MacuSave contains Lutein, Zeoxanthin and Meso-Zeoxanthin which are all recommended for macula health. Lutein and Zeoxanthin are carotenoids and found in green leafy veg, primarily spinach and kale but I have to be careful with these because I'm on Warfarin, although I do eat them and can monitor my INR levels at home. This is how I can also get away with taking the Vit K2.

Meso-zeoxanthin however isn't found in any foods. It is manufactured in the retina from ingested lutein.

If I could eat LOTS of green leafy veggies I wouldn't take MacuSave but I'm in a bit of a cleft stick!

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to xdbx]

Here in northern Italy they emphasise that providing you eat them regularly it is fine to eat green leafy veggies when on warfarin. It is suddenly eating a load when you haven't eaten them while titrating your warfarin dose that is a problem. I ate them every day until the INR was stable and continued to do so. When the INR went haywire there was no evidence it was anything to do with diet that caused it.

[xdbx in reply to PMRpro]

Maybe its time to experiment...the fewer meds and supplements needed the better!

Do you know if there are any tests available for carotenoid levels?

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to xdbx]

There are tests - whether they can be done routinely for the wo/man in the street I don't know. This fairly recent article

healio.com/optometry/techno...

says the blood test costs some $500 - but that a handheld scanner will also do the job. Though where you might find one ...

[xdbx in reply to PMRpro]

Thank you 😊