Vegan diet PBC/AIH overlap

[ZiggyBean]

I was just diagnosed with PBC/AIH overlap in December. I had my gallbladder out in October. My acupuncturist put me on a vegan diet...has anyone else tried this and had success?

[janey_babs]

Hiya, I'm not really sure what you are asking. What are looking for the vegan diet to achieve. I have actually done the opposite and reintroduced meat a year ago for the first time in over 20years and feel quite healthy. I have spent some time reading up on healthy diets and decided to drop soya and other meat substitutes. I now make most meals from scratch and avoid most processed foods.

[Gemma01]

Hi,

The past few days I have developed a rash all over my arms its really itchy, has anyone else had this? Also I was told I had PBC last year through blood tests but my consultant has confused me because the last time I seen him he said my bloods we slightly rasied on the otherside amd he would check for AIH but my doctor said he tested me for that through blood test ages ago and it was negative. Could this have been missed and would my consultant knpw through my lft's that I had AIH aswell?

[Hidden in reply to Gemma01]

Hiya Gemma.

I think you have mistakenly posted this on the wrong section. Nevertheless I only have PBC but there are others on this site that I know of who have AIH and also PBC who may be able to respond.

Click on the Questions and then the Ask a Question and re-post.

[Gemma01 in reply to Hidden]

Ok thank you

[janey_babs in reply to Gemma01]

I have overlap syndrome and both pbc and aih.

[Mcinnel2]

Hiya - My view is that becoming a Vegan is a life style choice rather than have health benefit and there is no evidence to suggest pbc improves by being on such a diet. My dr told me a heathy diet which included meat, fish and dairy was important to help maintain the nutrients your body needs so I am no longer a vegetarian although won't eat processed food and cook everything from scratch. Good luck with the diet although personally I would need to be convinced that becoming a vegan won't be detrimental to your health.

[Julez1961]

I have become malnourished with PBC and was told to eat whatever I want in the way of protein, cakes, soft drinks, anything that I want whether I like it or not!

[Hidden]

Hello ZiggyBean.

I started itching in early 2010 and was fatigued at the time. I ended up having blood tests and by the end of Dec 2010 I started on urso after being diagnosed with PBC.

The consultant who I saw prior to diagnose did say to me to continue to eat normally when I asked. (Alcohol to me is common sense. Was never a big drinker and rarely went out at the time and after my first abnormal LFT early 2010 I haven't bothered with alcohol since.)

Back in the late 1980s I did decide I would cut out meat as not that partial to it anyway (for more ethical reasons) but continued to eat fish and chicken. I felt fantastic at the time but I was only in my mid-20s then with 2 young children. Can't say that lasted overly-long though I would often choose to eat fish and chicken as opposed to red meat.

The one thing I would feel concerned about with regards to a vegan diet is that now you have PBC you do need to make sure you have a good balance of essential nutrients as certain ones (ie fat soluble vitamins like D, A and K) can be that bit harder for us to absorb. Vitamin D in particular can be one that we can be short of at times, moreso if you are in the UK like myself and we seem to get less and less of sunshine to manufacture it via our skin these days. By lacking Vitamin D it then has that throwback with regards to calcium as certain vitamins and minerals go hand-in-hand. By being vegan I imagine lack of certain dairy products would make you a bit less likely to absorb certain vitamins and minerals. Calcium is present in certain vegetables of course and certain beans and pulses.

On the whole my personal opinion is to eat quality as opposed to quantity with PBC and to only have certain treats at certain times. My main concern with regards to fruit and vegetables even though I eat a lot of them myself is the modern farming methods. Organic is supposed to be the best but it can be affording these of which I find I cannot do a lot of.

From experimenting myself over the years and trying out different foods, some items that are considered vegan and also gluten-free foods (I had to for my son for awhile and find we still use gluten-free self-raising flour which we do like) I think you do then find what you really do and do not like. I always thought I had a pretty decent diet and not a lot has changed since being informed I had PBC. I do tend to make more and more meals from scratch myself these days and find that most do not take a lot of time to prepare and cook. We just try to cut out all the nasties in foods that we can.

[fruitbat1]

Hi Ziggy, I've been on a vegan diet for 2 years now (mostly raw, high carb, low fat) and I feel better than I ever have in my life. My bloods are all excellent and my PBC seems to be reversing and I have no symptoms at all. I think there is a lot of misunderstanding out there about nutrient availability on a vegan diet. A vegan diet is very alkaline as opposed to a animal-based one, which is acid forming. When your body is acidic you body leaches minerals like calcium from your bones and muscle tissue in order to stabilize your blood pH at an alkaline state. This is how diseases like osteoporosis begin and develop. I can personally recommend this type of diet and can say you absolutely will get all your needs met nutritionally provided you eat loads of fruits and veggies and steer clear of processed vegan foods. I've cleared up gastritis, IBS, reflux, asthma, eczema, acne, chronic fatigue and all sorts of other problems on this diet. Best of luck in your decision.

[Hidden in reply to fruitbat1]

Hello fruitbat1.

I have to agree with a lot of what you are stating with regards to certain nutrients in a vegan diet. I've never been a vegan but did once try being a vegetarian (which as we know does contain dairy). It didn't last long as I was brought up with my father having his own chickens so got used to eating chicken and eggs frequently.

I think there is a lot of debate for vegan versus an omnivorous diet. I think we have more choice these days than our ancestors had.

I still believe in a good balance of allsorts of food and I have red meat to a bare minimum myself, have for a long time.

The one thing I have noticed which I had before but was brought to the fore-front recently when a friend of mine was mentioning this time of year and her husband's hands, how they were split and cracked as I used to suffer dreadfully too up to a few years ago. Since 2010 when I started itching and watched even more carefully what I was eating (never had problem with drinking, never a big alcohol drinker of which I ceased totally early 2010 and I don't drink fizzy pops that are loaded with artificial sweetners, chemics., etc), I've found that my hands are quite pristine even in winter. I still do what I always did but do think it is more due to the fact that I do eat a lot more carefully than I ever thought I did before.

At the end of the day there is definitely no harm in giving something a go, I'm all for trying certain things if you feel that may help.

The one thing we all should make sure of is that we get adequate intake of food as I've found since 2010 I actually did lose some weight and I now find myself seemingly stuck at one needle point on the scales when I get on them (under 9 stone) - I tend to use clothing as a better gauge - and I think more quality than quantity.

[LouWooda]

I could never be a Vegan, by choice. I enjoy meat, fish and dairy too much. I applaud people that can lead this lifestyle, as I do vegetarians. I am a meat/fish eating hypocrite as there is NO WAY I could take a life in order to eat. If I had to get food by my own hands rather than from a shop, I would be a vegetarian in a blink. Like I say, hypocrite.

[Yvi1960 in reply to LouWooda]

Yvi1960

I have had PBC/AIH overlap type for about 8 years and initially my consultant said not to change any lifestyle factors including diet. I am now at the stage where my weight has gone up helped by the use of steroids and I am having some difficulties with fat digestion! and other symptoms including fatigue. I am in the process of changing my diet and whilst I never ate a lot of processed foods or drank a lot of alcohol I have taken them out altogether (well almost for the alcohol) but eating out is soo difficult: Hidden high fat dairy, hidden fried foods, I would find a vegan diet too difficult to source and stick to as I work full time. I am trying to find out what foods trigger symptoms, has anyone else gone down this route to help with any problems?

[ZiggyBean]

Thanks everyone! I mostly eat vegetarian to begin with. We have a small farm in the US and we grow a lot of our food. I cook

75% of our meals from scratch. I guess I am just having a hard time with giving up dairy. Not because of calcium concerns as I eat enough vegetables loaded with calcium...its giving up cheese.

[fruitbat1 in reply to ZiggyBean]

Totally relate, Ziggy. I was a cheese addict. In fact the protein casein in cheese is actually addictive. But once I gave it up and my health returned I could never go back. Cheese gave me such terrible sinusitis, acne, asthma, eczema. Once you get used to eating loads of fruits and vegies your taste buds will change and you will begin to crave more of those foods. I have found that much of my cheese cravings were actually cravings for calories or salt. As long as I kept my calories up from fruits and mineral-rich veggies up (to stave off salt cravings) I no longer wanted the cheese (or chocolate, or sugary pastries, or alcohol). Best of luck with it.

[Junolee]

Hi All. See a little pattern here of previous vegetarians. I too have introduced meat back into my diet. My iron & nutrients were Ver low when I was diagnosed. Personally a balanced lower fat diet works for me in every way. I don't drink alcohol or fizzy drinks. Lots of water. My weakness is chocolate :).

[mrspiggy in reply to Junolee]

Oh yea me too! but I've seen articles relating to dark chocolate and liver disease and it seems to say eating good quality dark chocolate is a good thing! The ones in the know (those science boffins) are not sure why it helps but it does. Think coffee was another one on the list. Know caffeine may not necessarily be a good idea but I decaf my own tea so I can benefit from the antioxidants and have a good quality decaf coffee.

[Dollyhenriquez17]

Yes, I have been under veganism for almost 8 months and my liver enzymes are regulated so function of tha liver is under control the itching stop.... I feel good...

[doublewhammy]

Hi. I have AIH and pbc also but am only being treated for the hepatitis at the moment - azathioprine and steroids. My specialist and Doctor have recommended a normal balanced diet. Also with calcium/ vit D on prescription.

[alpha3]

I was diagnosed with PBC in August 2013 and have just continued with my normal diet. The majority of our food I make from scratch, and try to include as much fruit and veg as possible. Does anyone think it is a good idea to take a Vitamin D and calcium supplement. In view of the weather we get a lot of the time in the UK, lack of sunshine, it is easy to see how we could be going short on Vitamin D. I don't think I would like to try being a vegetarian, as I enjoy meat, chicken and fish although I don't eat large amounts of any of these.

[Sunny_snowflake]

Hi! I just read while ago from Finnish sites that one woman's liver function tests became normal, when she started to eat gluten-free products only. She has AIH. She was just wondering is there some kind of link between celiac and AIH. Who knows.

[JennerLayne in reply to Sunny_snowflake]

I can say from personal experience (DX last spring with AIH/PBC) via + AMA, liver biopsy, elevated IGM, and elevated LFTs, my doctor suggested going GF and losing weight to see if my numbers would reduce. Short answer: Yes! They have returned and stayed in the normal stage for 6+ months. To date, I have not started Urso or Corticosteroids and my 'clean eating' has helped me to feel much better and a little more energetic. That said, my SED rate (inflammation) continues to remain high and I was informed today that I continue to be low in vitamin D in spite of taking a recent 8 week course of 50,000 IU's weekly. So, I do suppose there are overall improvements, yet some issues remain unresolved.