So, reversing out. Why?

[Chickens44]

I have read all about reversing out symptoms after having iron infusion and starting B12 injections. But can anyone tell me why we get these symptoms. What is the science behind it? Surely healing should get easier, not worse. Just interested to know why we go backwards before recovery.

[Teloch]

In my experience (now 7 years) reversing out symptoms are a myth , only thing I've learned from having b12 problems is that it gets worse as you get older .

[Narwhal10]

Hi Chickens44,

The science behind it is knowing about a tiny bit about the Nervous System, nerves and wound healing.

So, if you graze your knee, it will bleed, then a scab forms, at some point it may become super itchy and you scratch off the scab.

So, imagine that ‘itchiness’ affecting your whole nervous system. You cannot scratch it to relieve it. We experience, pain and burning until healing takes place.

Same sort of principle if you whacked your noggin and sustain a bruise on your forehead. These are visible wounds. Internal stuff is generally more complex. Just because you cannot see it, does not necessarily mean it is true. The outer covering of nerves are called the myelin sheath.

Sanders (1948), In the normal nerve, fibres ranging in diameter from 1 to 20μ, were present. These had axons with diameters from 0·5μ in the smallest, to about 15μ in the largest fibres. The 0·5μ axons had myelin sheaths about 0·5μ thick, while the largest axons had sheaths about 2·5μ thick.

So, the repairing of those minuscule nerves causes our brains to interpret those sensations. Throbbing, stabbing, dull, shooting, gnawing, burning, nagging or whatever. As children, we just cry, scream or say, Baddie, baddie.

🐳

[Chickens44 in reply to Narwhal10]

Ah yes, that makes sense. So it is actually our brain interpreting the signals to the nerves and the body going through changes whilst repairing itself.

[JesusMercy60 in reply to Narwhal10]

hello Narwhal,

that makes so much sense and makes it easier to acknowledge when that happens, so I hope while having it I will try to use this to make me feel good of healing now. thank you,

Rosina

[Lurcher-lady in reply to Narwhal10]

What a brilliant analogy 😊

[Wwwdot]

Hi Chickens

Great Question and great explanation by Narwhal too. I am not a medic - I have Pernicious Anaemia.

The other process I visualised when reversing out is that cell renewal is a continuous process in a healthy body and as new cells are formed, old cells are broken down and removed - it’s a continuous “conveyor belt” that can take around 12 weeks for something to go along the conveyor belt start to finish - ordinarily it’s at a rate that is a comfortable experience.

But as Narwhal says renewing damaged and repair is a more intense process and once once B12 kickstarts it there is a flurry of activity. Because there has been a lack of general maintenance (Think bin strike?), there is an additional process of removing a backlog of toxins and dead cells and getting the “conveyor belt” moving again and running smoothly. I think that’s why you feel so tired because every cell in your body is busy renewing and clearing and healing. On such a scale it’s unnatural and wouldn’t need to happen so intensely in a healthy body

I remember having a persistent horrible taste in my mouth like metal almost and I remember having a similar experience albeit briefly after acupuncture , yoga and reflexology when the body has been stimulated to remove toxins.

Drinking lots of filtered water helps and rest (fat chance for many, I know) as well as being kind to oneself and congratulating yourself for the positive things you are doing and recognising what you HAVE done - not what you haven’t. Again easier said than done but it is transitory and you will get through it.

🤗🤗🤗

[Narwhal10 in reply to Wwwdot]

Hi dot,

I heart the conveyor belt and bin strike analogy.

Plus, that gentle approach of gratitude.

😇

[HugoMinney]

Reversing Out Syndrome can be a whole lot of different symptoms, depending on which symptoms led when you first developed B12 deficiency. And it doesn't happen to everyone - we (in B12d and in the book "B12 deficiency in clinical practice") think around 10% of people suffer, and the most common symptoms are rashes on the skin.

Nerve tingling / phantom pain: if your nerves have stopped functioning ten when they wake up again, your brain gets a bit of a shock - there's this signal coming from where the brain assumed all nerves had died! The brain's default position is to assume pain, so big pain or little pain. just like when you get a 'dead' arm and pins and needles when it comes back to life, your brain interprets a recovering nerve as though it is a disaster at first. You can also get spasms (nerve sending random motor signals, especially nystagmus) and sudden weakness (nerve sending random inhibitory signals).

Skin rashes, and 'nettle skin' (lots of regular lumps): these were the first that we observed, The skin is the largest organ on the body, and also very useful for excreting stuff in a hurry. Therefore when your body has enough B12 to start getting rid of homocysteine, instead of processing it all, it will excrete some either in sweat to form a red rash on your skin, or sub-cutaneously into the fatty layer for later processing. We didn't have enough B12 to do this before, so it all happens at once. Which is why you should wipe it off with cold water on a cloth, rather than locking it next to the skin with E45 cream.

heart palpitations: the heart is a special hybrid nerve/muscle, so it's affected the same way as other nerves. But the impact of B12 might also affect our hormones (B12d does, after all) which might send a hormone signal to the heart to race. Heart palpitations can last for hours or days and are often very scary, but the reality is that they are part of the healing process for a few people.

[Chickens44]

Such helpful information, just what I was after. Thanks so much.