Does endoscopy replace colonoscopy?

[25092]

Hello beautiful PA fam, I wanted to know if any of you guys with PA also have gastritis from it and therefore have to get upper endoscopy and colonoscopy periodically. The reason I'm asking, my doctor did a upper endoscopy on me and told me I didn't need a colonoscopy for the next 10 years and it sounded a little off to me. I was under the impression you needed a colonoscopy every 5 years. So does endoscopy replace a colonoscopy? Searching the internet it says the cameras take pictures of the lining of the bowel to look for any problems or signs of disease. This test can be used instead of a colonoscopy. Is this true guys?

[Jillymo]

Hi,

The answer to your question is no.

An endoscopy is a camera that looks at your esophagus, stomach and the beginning of the small intestine for signs of gastritis or hiatus hernia ect, I was found to have both.

A colonoscopy looks at the large intestine, rectum and ilium for inflammation, chrohns, polops, ect. I had both proceedures carried out in January. It is important to look at the ilium because this is the part of the bowel which plays a large part in our absorbtion of B12.............

The vitamin B12-intrinsic factor com- plex is carried down to the ileum where it becomes plastered onto receptor sites on the brush border of the ileal mucosal cells. 7, 33, 34 The intrinsic factor (IF) -B12 complex fits into these receptor sites just as a key fits into a lock.

I hope this helps albeit your in the states........

Guidelines Uk.......... nice.org.uk/guidance/ng239/...

[25092 in reply to Jillymo]

Thank you so much Jillymo. You explained it well. I am so tired of these incompetent, dismissive doctors I want to scream. They are putting so many of us at risk! GOD help us PA people!

[Jillymo in reply to 25092]

We pay a high price at their hands that's for sure. I have been persueing gastrology for nearly 2yrs with an initial wait of another year to be seen by a consultant ? I have waited yet another 6mnths for a capsule swallow ( a camera you swallow which goes in one end and out the other ) and still waiting !

I feel exactly the same.

[25092 in reply to Jillymo]

I'm sorry they are putting you through this. Why on earth would they wait on testing like this? Please excuse my language but your story and other like it just pisses me off. I just can not stand it. I'm rooting for you Jillymo. Best!!!

[Jillymo in reply to 25092]

I had the colonoscopy in January. They wrote me with the out come explaining I had an issue with the ilium which would explain my B12 deficiency. It went on to say they had seen somthing they could not identify and that they would like to do a capsule swallow to which I agreed. I am still ruddy waiting, some damned odiot hadn't actioned the proceedure. It was only put forward on the3rd of June !

And you think you have problems over there. 🤔

Honey your not alone. 🤬

[25092 in reply to Jillymo]

It's just a shame. A shame! You going to be okay though?

[25092 in reply to 25092]

Absolutely no? After that thought. So that was a typo

[25092 in reply to 25092]

You are going to be okay . PERIOD

[Jillymo in reply to 25092]

At this rate who knows ? If it were a bloody cancer I wouldn't stand a chance. Years ago something unforseen would have taken top priority but not these days.

You can delete or edit typo's by clicking on more next to report.

I am like you pissed off with it all.

[25092 in reply to Jillymo]

Please don't think that Jillymo. I know it's hard not to think like that when we go through testing or lack of. I just said a prayer for you.

[Jillymo in reply to 25092]

Darling if it were I wouldn't give too hoots it's the waiting and hanging around that gets me down.

Bless ya for your prayers. 💐

[Marz in reply to Jillymo]

Smile Alert 🌹 Whilst reading your response above I missed the 'g' from gastrology !! (Eye problems) I immediately thought studying the stars may well give us more answers at times of frustration. 😂 Hope you soon receive the care you deserve...

[Jillymo in reply to Marz]

You made me laugh. 🤣

🌙⭐ 🔭

Keep studying hun.

[25092 in reply to Marz]

Lol

[Cherylclaire Forum Support in reply to Jillymo]

Camera up and camera down - and never the twain shall meet !

I had 2 polyps removed during colonoscopy, nil else and biopsies okay.

I had "flattened mucosal pattern at D1 and D2 "(duodenum) and "patchy gastric metaplasia" noted after endoscopies. Once Coeliac disease was ruled out, that was that.

And that really was that. No answers and no repeats.

The gastroenterologist had an MRI of small intestine on her plan - but that never happened.

The communications problems between departments seems to add stress to an already stressful situation where further investigation is required. How do you know if you are waiting a long time but are still on the waiting list - or waiting a long time needlessly, because you have been forgotten about completely ? We all understand that the NHS is short of funding and staff are very overstretched and don't like to complain unnecessarily, but when do you stop waiting around to be contacted ?

I had a transfer in August last year to another department from Oral Medicine, having already signed a consent form for a biopsy. It was explained that the other department would be doing a procedure anyway, so sensible to do the biopsy at the same time, and save having stitches twice in the same area. It made sense to me too.

But I waited so long that I went there to discuss my problem: I got an appointment given to me on the spot for July - but no biopsy on that date, as they had not done an initial assessment ! Getting an appointment so easily by standing in front of them would suggest an element of being forgotten - or a computer error. Waiting a year for a biopsy that I could have had in August '23 (and haven't got yet) frustrating.

The second department is a swing-door away from the first, so I was able to talk to both departments - since they seemed unable to talk to each other. No, I don't think anything serious is going to be found - but would like to have that confirmed.

Maybe the only way forward is to look to the stars - by rolling your eyes in exasperation, you might come across your answer !

[25092 in reply to Cherylclaire]

Absolutely frustrating they have you waiting for so long. It makes no sense.

[Cherylclaire Forum Support in reply to 25092]

I'd thought I was getting a transfer from one department to the one next door, a continuation of treatment that I'd already given consent for.

Long waits bring up the cost as assessments have to be repeated, conditions having altered, worsened. Doubling of workload for an already overloaded workforce. Doubtless frustrating for all concerned.

[25092 in reply to Cherylclaire]

Not to mention the unnecessary stress of it. I'm rooting for you Cherylclaire! Best!

[Cherylclaire Forum Support in reply to 25092]

Thanks.

Also thanks to Jillymo for sense of humour, perspective and stubbornness (definitely a superpower).

[wedgewood]

You ask if PA patients get gastritis . …

The NHS NICE department (National Institute for Health and Care Excellence ) now refers to Pernicious Anaemia as “Autoimmune Gastritis “. in their latest guidelines on B12 deficiency. published in March of this year. They also say why they do that . I don't actually like its change of name very much . as the term “ Pernicious “ really does emphasise the seriousness of the condition. which it really is, if not treated swiftly and correctly .

So yes , all P.A. patients have Autoimmune Gastritis . And we do not all z a get endoscopies and colonoscopies . which would be ideal. We all know how difficult it is to even get a diagnosis of P.A. I was lucky and received a positive result from the Intrinsic Factor Antibodies test ( IFAB) but didn’t get any colonoscopy or endoscopy. Couldn’t even get sufficient B12 injections. ( only 3 monthly ) But, That’s another story .

Sorry I can’t answer your other question . .

[25092 in reply to wedgewood]

Thanks Wedgewood, I certainly appreciate that information. I had no idea it refers to Pernicious Anaemia as “Autoimmune Gastritis “. Since that's the reality, wouldn't it make sense to order endoscopies and colonoscopies for all P A patients? This lack of concern for our condition is just baffling. WHY IS THIS? Is there something else to this?

[Jillymo in reply to 25092]

In answer to your question to wedgewood - there is something else, lack of funding ! It all comes down to money.

Logic simply doesn't come into it but in the later stages of our lives the NHS will be picking up the bill !

[wedgewood]

I believe that’s it’s probably to do with the fact that Pernicious Anaemia is not treated with a pharmaceutical drug . Doctors like to prescribe pharmaceutical drugs ……… plus the fact that B12 injections which are the only solution to treating P.A., have to be administered by nurses which adds to the expenses of running a surgery…………………………………………….

There is very little research done into P.A. The diagnostic test ( IFAB) is unreliable and will give a negative result for about 50% of P.A. patients . So many PA. patients are told that “It’s all in your head ,” and are prescribed anti-depressants.

The fact is that P.A.patients are mostly capable of self-injecting . They could use I.M. method or Sub-cutaneous ( very short very fine needle into fat layer ) but NHS only sanctions I.M. goodness knows why . because sub-cut is equally successful and advocated in Germany ( written on the B12 ampoule packets ) Then B12 ampoules are only obtainable with a prescription here in U.K. so we have to obtain our life -giving ampoules from online German pharmacies ( an over the counter item in Germany )

Mind you , if you have the financial resources, you can get a B12 injection in a beauty salon or even a hairdressers , because it’s quite legal if it’s administered for vanity reasons ( weight loss , ageing etc) Unbelievable isn’t ???

So we have to look after ourselves . I am so pleased that we have this forum and it’s wonderful members.

Best wishes .

[GoneWithTheWind1972]

I’m fortunate here in Australia, that I have a good gastroenterologist (under private insurance though) who is very thorough with my treatment. I’ve had an endoscopy, pill camera and colonoscopy. My last endoscopy was in February with a good outcome for which I’m relieved. She supports my SC daily B12 and listens to my concerns. Her protocol is an endoscopy every two years and a colonoscopy every five years (but can change if I’m symptomatic due to my Crohn’s diagnosis) and treats according to my overall health and general wellbeing. I have a consultation with her every six months and prior to this I have a referral for a pathology and calprotectin test. She reviews this and we discuss any concerns or issues. This suits me well and I stay on top of any gastrointestinal concerns. I wish all specialists could be as empathetic to their patients concerns and needs as this doctor is but, unfortunately this is not the case. I recently had a bad experience with a haematologist who insisted I reduce my B12 SC injections to monthly instead of daily…….no chance ever!!

I sincerely hope you all can find just one specialist/doctor who is willing to listen to their patients concerns, we would be in a much better place health wise.

An endoscopy and colonoscopy are both special procedures required two to five years (more often if there are gut concerns) and with a PA diagnosis there’s even more reason for these procedures to be performed more often also. Good health to you all on this forum.🤗🥰

[25092 in reply to GoneWithTheWind1972]

Thank you so much for explaining your treatment and yes your doctor is very much on the job. Mine is not! It's settled, I am going to look for another gastroenterologist immediately!

[elr_ctr]

My experience in the US -

Colonoscopy is routine preventative procedure at age 50, repeated ever 10 years if clear. My insurance fully covers routine preventative care like colonoscopy, mammogram, yearly exam.

I was 47 when diagnosed. My doctor wanted me to get an endoscopy only, not a colonoscopy. He said I could just wait until I got my colonoscopy since it would cost less and wasn’t urgent. I chose to go ahead and do it. While finding issues that were typical of pernicious anemia, it was clear of anything serious. I think he said repeat in 10 years. He was pretty vague about this and sounded more like he wouldn’t necessarily want another one without stomach symptoms.

At 49, my brother (age 52) was diagnosed with stage 3 colorectal cancer. Due to current recommendations, my doctor wanted me to have my colonoscopy asap and scheduled about 2 weeks out. Pre approval with insurance I was denied due to age. Since it was only 8 months until my 50th birthday, rather than argue with insurance, I decided to wait and scheduled it for the day after my birthday. At some point about a month after the original insurance denial, I saw that they doctor had submitted to my insurance as routine. I asked them to send it back through with the actual reason. It was approved, but not as preventative. Due to out of pocket max and a lot of other medical bills it was going to be really cheap so I scheduled it for 5 days later. All was clear and I was told to repeat in 10 years. However, one of my other doctors has since told me the current recommendation is 5 years with family history.

So based on my experience, I would wonder 2 things - are you 40 so 10 years before 50? And might the doctor have misspoken? Either accidentally telling you the standard for colonoscopy or accidentally saying colonoscopy instead of endoscopy. The place I had mine done were like procedure factories one after another all day. There are a bunch of GI docs who each have a day of the week that the do these procedures. I would think that, although not acceptable, it would be easy for a doctor to misspeak when reading out the sane results from the same tests all day long.

[25092 in reply to elr_ctr]

First let me say, thank God all was clear and you made a good call to ask for the test yourself instead of waiting for these unreliable doc's. Best elr_ctr

[yorkshiregirl4]

Hello 25092, You have already received some thorough comments from members but I just wanted to add that during a colonoscopy if polyps are disovered they can be removed and tested appropriately, and this obviously cannot be completed with the camera process.

The endoscopy camera takes photos of the oesophagus and stomach and these photos can be compared when a subsequent endoscopy takes place. This is a live look at these areas with the photos taken for comparison later. You are governed by your health insurance rules in your country and we either pay privately for the endoscopy or have them undertaken at a recommended schedule, decided by the NHS, which I understand is currently every 3 years. Yes, it is a constant battle when you have PA which starts before you even manage to get a diagnosis and continues thereafter, which can become pretty exhausting, but these procedures are clearly important. Good luck sorting this out.

[25092 in reply to yorkshiregirl4]

Thank you Yorkshiregirl4. Have a peaceful day