I have just been found to have coronary artery calcification incidentally when having a Lung Healthcare scan. This information was passed to my GP who wants to put me on statins (Atorvastatin 20mg daily). I have no idea of the severity or extent of the calcification, only that it was found. I don't think this scan even appears on my medical record.
I have asked that my D3/calcium tablets for osteoporosis of the spine be altered to D3 oil capsules. It does not seem sensible to take calcium any more, does it ?
I cannot find any advice about B12 deficiency: B12 injections and statins. Whether one would affect the other.
What to do next ? The booklets all talk about heart attacks and cholesterol, lipids, triglycerides and atherosclerosis - but no mention of calcification.
How can I find this information, so that I can make a decision regarding the statins ?
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Cherylclaire
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K2 is an important one to take to direct the into the bones, not the arteries. Also important to have magnesium, if not already. I'd avoid statins at this stage, but obviously it's your call.
Yes. Already have been taking K2 alongside Evacal D3 tablets - also Raloxifene on prescription ("This medicine lowers total cholesterol and LDL ('bad') cholesterol. In general, it does not change triglycerides or HDL ('good') cholesterol." manufacturer's user information leaflet)
So difficult to make an informed opinion based on so little in the way of initial evidence- and a bombardment of rather ridiculous videos. Wonder where my scan is and how much detail it contains ?
Also worth knowing that, in the leaflet inside the Evacal D3 pack, under "warnings and precautions": "During long-term treatment the levels of calcium in your blood and urine and your kidney function have to be monitored regularly" !
Agree ! I think it was in the book that I read about calcium being involved in the breaking down of bone cells - osteoclasts. Osteoblasts are the cells involved in rebuilding bone ....Magnesium key too.
Parathyroids are involved in calcium levels - so maybe testing of PTH Levels could be helpful 🌻
Yes, agree with your thoughts on testing of PTH levels too. Another great book is 'The Great Cholesterol Con' (the truth about what really causes heart disease and how to avoid it), by Dr Malcolm Kendrick. The main cause is stress and anxiety by the way! As if PA sufferers don't have enough stress already with trying to obtain a level of treatment to support their health!! Quite a hefty read but it tells you all about statins and their detrimental effect on health - the obvious ones but also it leads to muscle wastage which is the last thing you need when you are trying to maintain your balance when a bout of 'brain fog' hits! Again a very good read, dispelling the myths around cholesterol. The brain is dependant on cholesterol for health, so if you take statins to reduce cholesterol you are reducing the valuable cholesterol to support the brain - no wonder dementia is on the increase. A lot of information and well worth the read.
Yes a good read indeed. I met Dr Kendrick at a Thyroid UK conference and also at a B12 one at Loughborough Uni - both a few years ago. We had an interesting conversation about VitD and T3 over bteakfast !
Sorry to hear of this incidental finding. I think you are wise to learn more about the extent and scale of the calcification before you embark on what will be a commitment to that type of drug.
My husband has been on 20mg Atorvastatin for the last 5 years since he had a stent. I think from memory 20mg is the lowest dose and it appears to have steadied his condition ie at a recent check we were told his arteries were no worse and slightly improved.
I agree with you that the more facts you have to hand the better position to make an informed decision. You need to base that decision on your risks and benefits. Stopping the Atorvastatin is not an option for my husband as he has a stent so all we can do is try to stay on as low a dose as possible for as long as possible.
I am sure there are others on here with far more knowledge that I can offer.
If I can track down the scan, I will have a baseline at least.
Sometimes, there aren't choices to be made, are there ? Lucky this was picked up, and lucky to have a choice right now. Good that this routine check picks up and reports back about other conditions, and hope that primary care able to cope with the influx of 'incidentals' !
These are exactly the questions I have been trying to find answers for !
The scan: the letter, from "Lung Health Check Project Team", has no address/ contact details/ names, just tells me to take specific questions to GP.
The letter tells me that I have coronary artery calcification (CAC), and then gives general advice : that this condition "happens when calcium is deposited within the blood vessels (arteries) in the heart and can cause a narrowing of the arteries. This can also be made worse by smoking and is often related to high cholesterol and high blood pressure."
I haven't smoked for a decade, I don't have high blood pressure - and cholesterol was lowering but recently has gone up slightly, although has been higher previously.
I don't think the GPs have the scan. I did not see it when the GP found the letter on screen. She only has the same information that I have. How will my progress be monitored once on statins (if I decide to take them) ?
No, oddly I haven't been advised to stop taking calcium. That question was dismissed with "It's a different pathway" at my first appointment. So unclear what caused calcium build-up. Calcium levels in blood healthy.
The research that Technoid sent me, a 10-yr study of the effects of diet and supplement risk of CAC in older adults, finds that little from supplements is incorporated into bone but may contribute to ectopic calcification. The risk of CAC development, in those using supplements, was 22% higher than in those who did not supplement.
I now have a telephone appointment next week to discuss changing my tablets to oil-based D3 capsules. Have an awful feeling that this is with the "different pathway" doctor though ! This will be my third appointment and I'm none the wiser. Yet.
If no luck there, I can always write to my rheumatologist. She did once change my Risedronate to Raloxifene.
Hi Cherylclaire… I find Ivor Cummings very knowledgeable on coronary artery calcification also his info on cholesterol and statins. I’ll post the link on YouTube and thoroughly recommend - he’s a great watch and also links evidence in his research …. Hope this helps
^ CherylClaire, the information I posted in your previous thread goes into all this in detail. I highly recommend you do NOT follow the advice from such as Ivor Cummings. These people are infamous in the nutrition science field for spreading dangerous nonsense.
How are you feeling ? Both physically and was it an ugh situation ? What else do I have to live with ? 😫
You know your body better than anybody. You always have options. You can ‘trial’ something but only change ONE thing at a time.
My knowledge in this area is extremely poor. So, my line of thinking is along the lines of, using examples :-
1) See how you are not taking calcium for a week. By noting symptoms (use a diary).
2) Review situation. (Your body will tell you, listen to it. What do we know ? We are just random people on the internet).
3) Then once that is sorted, however, many weeks. Then consider the statin situation.
The physiological response is never to be underestimated. How an individual responds to something whether that food, alcohol, a medication, temperature, pain etc etc. 😘
A bit surprised by this. Surprised that it never occurred to me that having calcium supplements might calcify me !
A bit scared by this. My mum and dad both had heart disease.
Physically, I feel no different.
I never knew that I had osteoporosis until I had a routine Dexascan - because I broke a couple of bones.
I would not have known that I had CAC unless this Lung Health Check scan had happened.
Now feel a little like I did when I first found out that I had B12 deficiency. (WHAT ???)
So much information to trawl through. No information offered regarding extent/severity of the calcification. Statins the go-to answer from primary care. But with little explanation offered as to what caused the calcification, how can statins help this particular condition ? And without access to the scan as a baseline, how will GPs know if they do ?
I find those videos difficult to watch. Would I pick up a book with that image on the cover ? Eg young man in a white coat , gurning puzzled face, scratching chin, giant red question-mark hovering above his tousled hair.
I am so very sorry. Yes, of course, it can be daunting especially given parents. Sending a gentle hug.
It is tiring trying to learn about new conditions when managing so much already. Let your heart sink, have a cry or scream if needs be. Do something nice for yourself. Then another day slowly think about learning 20 minutes each day about what mischief your body is up to.
I searched online for "arterial calcification statins" and found articles that said taking statins reduced risk of cardio-vascular events but increased rate of coronary artery calcification (CAC).
I hope you find the information you need to make your decisions.
Do you think that calcium is the result of previous fatty deposits, a change over time ? I wonder if this means that I have had this condition for a while then. Is it more stable than atherosclerosis ? This could explain the reduced risk of events. Less breaking away, less lesions caused, less blood clots formed ?
I think I'm stuck with the calcium I've accrued so far, but you can see why I'm not keen to add to that with the supplements for osteoporosis (which did decrease to osteopenia after all - and who knew that could happen ?) The oil-based capsules of D3 without the calcium seems like a fair ask in this position.
Thanks for looking. So much info, a lot of conflict. GPs in general seem very keen on statins, and can't understand why patients so reluctant.
The advice from the Lung Health project team who scanned me was to look on British Heart Foundation website - so will let you know if I find out anything useful there.
It is like a see-saw. Getting the right balance of things. We are all so different and no, not more homework. A frazzled brain which is tired and foggy. A person has to have a shower, dress, cook, feed self and trying to run an orderly, tidy home is beyond me. So, I just do very basic. 😳
Yes, thats correct Sleepybunny, statins calcify the existing soft plaque which stabilizes it, reducing risks of plaque rupture. This is why statins "freeze" risk but cannot really eliminate risk as the existing plaque is not actually removed but stabilized.
So to decide whether prescribed statins are working well , it would be a good idea to be able to monitor effectiveness - only possible by first knowing extent and severity of the existing calcification.
How to either get past primary care to find out by being scanned again or finding the original scan where calcification was evident is proving problematic. Why the first scan could not have been sent with the letter to the surgery in the beginning, I'm not sure.
Once again, after treatment has started, this opportunity is lost.
Your thyroid is producing a very low level of the hormone T4. This is a storage hormone and needs to convert into the Active T3 - which was not tested - and yet the most important test. Every cell in your body has a receptor for T3 and it is Low T3 that can be the cause of many symptoms - including raised cholesterol. As your Free T4 is very low then it follows FT3 will also be low.
With your FT4 being so low you would normally see a much higher TSH - stimulating the thyroid to produce more of the hormone T4. Central Hypothyroidism should be considered - think we have discussed this before - where the Pituitary gland is a problem....and the TSH - FT4 - FT3 are all low in range. Maybe take a look back at earlier thyroid results....
That certainly should be considered when putting together your medical jigsaw ....
I wonder how your sisters were diagnosed with Graves ? Hopefully with the correct anti-bodies being tested. Hashimotos - which can lead to being HYPO - in the early stages - can lead to Graves type symptoms - HYPER. Yes it's a minefield....
"There are two recognized types of coronary artery calcification: atherosclerotic and medial artery calcification. Atherosclerotic calcification chiefly occurs in the intima [2], when inflammatory mediators and elevated lipid content within atherosclerotic lesions induce osteogenic differentiation of vascular smooth muscle cells [3]. Conversely, coronary artery calcification in the media is associated with advanced age, diabetes, and chronic kidney disease [4]. Both calcification types contribute to arterial stiffness, which increases the risk for adverse cardiovascular events in the general population, decreases the rate of revascularization success, and increases the likelihood of procedural complications."
from "Intravascular lithotripsy: plaque modification in preparation for stenting"
in Debulking in Cardiovascular Interventions and Revascularization Strategies, Shmuel Chen, Giora Weisz, 2022
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