Hello, can anyone help me with the following? My son was at a therapist this afternoon. He was given a prick in his finger there, and it came out with this, among other things:
Test item: B12
Normal range: 6,428 - 21,396
Actual reading 2,587
I am not familiar with these types of values. Everything is in English. What does the result mean?
For your information: My son has a demonstrated B12 deficiency. I am completely aware of everything around B12, but this, which is on the form he was given, I don't understand.
Thanks in advance!
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Holland72
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Fresh capillary blood analysis using darkfield microscopy as a tool for screening nutritional deficiencies of iron and cobalamin (vitamin B12): A validity study
I understand. She saw also a parasite in his blood. And my son got B12 injections from june 22 till last month. Every 72 hours and later every 48 hours. No improvement at all. We know it takes time but this was not normal. My thoughts: his B12 should be much higher because of all those injections.......
LBA (live blood analysis)Live blood analysis (LBA) offers a whole new perspective on blood, usually with surprising results. What a standard blood test does not show, an LBA can reveal. Through a finger prick, a drop of blood is taken. This drop of blood is then analysed under a microscope.
A microscope is used to examine a number of aspects of the blood including: white, red blood cells and platelets. In this way, the quality and activity of the blood is looked at. Therapist and client can interactively discuss what is seen.
A number of aspects can be detected in this way:
- Anaemia (or functional status of folate, vitamin B12, iron, vitamin C).
- General functioning of intestines, liver, spleen, kidneys, immune system and blood production.
- Quality of fatty acids (especially with regard to cell membranes).
- Presence of (excess) waste products, toxins and heavy metals.
- Presence of pathogens such as viruses, bacteria, parasites and fungi
- Indications of various conditions, such as gout-affliction, allergies, oxidative stress.
Hi Holland72, this is really interesting, may I ask a couple of questions please? Could you tell me please what is the meaning of the word functional in 'or functional status of'? Would an LBA show B12 deficiency in a person who had been supplementing? Thanks
Interesting to learn of such a test. It seems pretty new and I'm unsure of how seriously the results should be taken. In any case, testing B12 levels after treatment has started is not useful since levels do not reflect efficacy of treatment.
Lack of any response at all to the B12 injections for a whole year seems very unusual. Perhaps Cherylclaire can speak to it, but I would have thought some change in symptoms was likely after such a time.
Unless the deficiency was extremely severe and long-lasting (multiple years) and neural damage was irreparable? but I haven't heard of something so severe - even severe SACD usually responds to intensive B12 treatment. With severe cases I would expect symptoms to worsen for some weeks to months but then to slowly improve. With such an unusual case I would actually consider transcobalamin or other more unusual issues, which I wouldnt normally consider getting into but this seems quite strange.
I presume that other possibilities as a cause of his illness were exhausted.
Standard treatment in the Netherlands is I believe cyanocobalamin. A trial of hydroxocolamin could be tried. You can also get that form in the Netherlands. Genetic transocolabin deficiency and the other genetic cbl disorders use exclusively hydroxo. That could potentially explain lack of response. A genetic methylmalonic acidemia and homocystinuria panel will reveal such issues.
And in extreme cases you may try daily or even twice daily hydroxo. Along with sufficient folate. Any folate deficiency or metabolism issue will affect the body's ability to use b12.
But i would have expected you notice something. No change in symptoms *at all*, whether improving or worsening?
Thank you. Worsening. See my answer to Technoid please. Also folate is a different story here in the Netherlands. He got 400 mg folic acid every other day. He is tiered of everything around injections. He thinks it made his head crazy. So he quit everything on june 4th, Waiting now to see the endocrinoloog. He always told me he felt vetter before the injections. His level before was B12: 166
I read through your symptoms. That is indeed not usual and I understand his wanting to stop.
Has he tried cyanocobalamin instead of hydroxo? I can't remember exactly the reason but we have a member here clivealive, he can't tolerate hydroxo.
Have you tried other forms of folate? Folinic acid, methylfolate? Are his folate levels good?
The problem may not be all B12 . I hope the endocrinologist will test other hormones. All tests should be fasting, first thing in the morning: TSH, FT4, FT3, cortisol, DHEA, testosterone, etc, as well as an iron panel, vit D.
Out of balance hormones will also cause the mental symptoms you mention. The snake around his neck sounds like a thyroid symptom.
He got Hydroxocobalamine injections. Professor Wolffenbuttel send him to an endocrinoloog. Even the professor said he got no improvement. We have to look further. My son is exhausted, and on top of that he got ocd in the form of reversal thoughts, intrusive thoughts. He never had it before. And extreme moodswings. He feels agressieve etc. He is almost 21 years, and stuck in our house since 3,5 years. It is so so sad, horrible
I briefly translated your piece. I understand what you are saying. That is the reason he was referred to an endocrinologist specialising in metabolic diseases. He is still young, and has always been a healthy Dutch boy. Sporty, a footballer. In hindsight, the symptoms started in 2016/17. Blurred vision, feeling agitated, palpitations. GP just sent him home again. In 2020, suddenly itching all over his body, especially after exertion. Patches looked like hives. In 2021 He collapsed through his legs, lots of anxiety and panic. Very tired. And also tight neck muscles. He says as if a snake is tight around his neck. Most crazy complaints. Seeing himself differently, different dimension feeling. And so on. His whole childhood is gone.
I briefly translated your piece. I understand what you are saying. That is the reason he was referred to an endocrinologist specialising in metabolic diseases. He is still young, and has always been a healthy Dutch boy. Sporty, a footballer. In hindsight, the symptoms started in 2016/17. Blurred vision, feeling agitated, palpitations. GP just sent him home again. In 2020, suddenly itching all over his body, especially after exertion. Patches looked like hives. In 2021 He collapsed through his legs, lots of anxiety and panic. Very tired. And also tight neck muscles. He says as if a snake is tight around his neck. Most crazy complaints. Seeing himself differently, different dimension feeling. And so on. His whole childhood is gone.
There is little foundation in good science here, or I could be less polite and suggest that 'you've been had'! What is described as 'Live Blood Analysis' does have some validity in very rare [for us, anyway] circumstances. However, that term isn't used; we would refer to a 'wet preparation' where blood under a coverslip is examined for the presence of filariae, when investigating for a range of tropical diseases. This is not common, routine practice.
In a UK Teaching Hospital Haematology laboratory I've seen less than a handful of positive cases in over 40 years.
Venous blood tests are infinitely more reliable, although they require bigger samples, typically 5ml-10ml to cover a very wide range of tests.
I wish him well, and hope he gets the support he requires.
Thank you for explaining and your kind wordt. My thought was also; if there was a parasite in this little bit of blood, how many are there in the rest of his body? Has it anything to do why injections not work?
Hi ,last week I searched so much online. I'm sure there's a link between my son's physical symptoms and mental symptoms. I think that these compulsions and repetitive sentences arise because one does not look further. It me off that a psychologist is the first word they say. Our gp doesn't know anything at all. I'm on my own for everything. Let's get the facts straight: vague complaints since 2018/19: blurred vision, palpitations, rushed feeling. He was 17 years old at the time. In 2020 suddenly itchy red spots all over his body, hives. He wasn't feeling well. The hives passed later. He has various allergies, including hay fever. In January 2021, he literally collapsed through his legs. He couldn't take it anymore. Our gp didn't know either. All year nothing wiser. He's been home all the time. In 2022 I found out for myself that it had to be a vitamin B12 deficiency. And indeed it was. Hoping he would get better through injections.First every 72 hours, later every 48 hours. No improvement whatsoever, no matter how small. Nothing! The mental complaints became worse, more frequent. He thought he was going crazy. Anxious, very anxious. He's surviving. BUT...... last week I came across the word SIBO during my search. I had never heard of it. The link with B12 deficiency was correct, and to my surprise also the link with mental symptoms. Literally it said that someone can have repeating sentences in the head in a not fun way. SIBO, overgrowth of bacteria in the small intestine. I immediately thought there was something in his drop of blood from the finger prick. I have his stool examined. The doctor thought that was good. I hope my feelings are right on this. We need clarity. 20 years and 4 years at home. This really can't be, they leave him to his own devices, and I'm watching out for that! What do you guys think? Thanks!
In my personal opinion, the finding of 'a parasite' in such a sample, when there's no concurrent investigation for parasitaemia, it's vanishingly unlikely! The 'parasite' is far more likely to be an artefact.
A parasitaemia is more likely to generate a blood reaction, such as eosinophilia, which would not be picked up in a wet preparation.
Thanks again. Yes, i can imaginaire that. She showed it to my son , he never saw such thing before. We have to wait what the endocrinoloog has to say. End of this month.
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