I have a few professional contacts in my network who promote veganism for children.
When I looked at the small print, they suggested children can get their B12 from toothpaste...!
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/306...
Curious to know if anyone has or uses B12 toothpaste as an effective way to increase levels. Perhaps with PA it's not going to be so simple, but curious nonetheless.
Never heard of it.Can't imagine a fortified toothpaste delivering much B12
Am however very concerned veganism promoted for growing children. .
Should be an adults informed choice
It was a new one on me too. Ive searched online and most of them contain Cyanocobalamin. Sometimes its not clear how much. This is the reference: proveg.com/uk/
Agree, with Nackapan, YES, veganism for children is rather abusive for children even some adults. An adult member of my church was a strict Vegan for years, she became very, very ill and nearly died, B12 depleted, and a host of other life threatening issues. Veganism for children is nutritional child abuse. IMO
Can I ask what issues besides b12 deficiency that you thought were attributed to veganism? I am simply curious. And am also sorry to hear that she went through all that.
Hi Litatamon:
This is rather lengthy, but has a lot of helpful guidance for vegans and those considering veganism web site at end.
5 potential drawbacks of following a vegan diet. Like with any diet, veganism comes with some potential drawbacks. Those following a vegan diet may want to be extra careful to ensure they are consuming enough iron, zinc, vitamin D, calcium, and omega-3 fatty acids.Vegans are also at a high risk of developing a Vitamin-B12 deficiency that, if untreated, can potentially cause neurological effects that are irreversible.Following a vegan diet can be unsustainable for some individuals, so it's important to remember that it's not a diet that works for everyone. Visit INSIDER's homepage for more stories.Top editors give you the stories you want — delivered right to your inbox each weekday.Like with any diet, veganism comes with benefits and drawbacks. And though veganism can be a healthy, sustainable diet for some, it's important to learn about any potential risks associated with this popular eating pattern before choosing to adhere to it. Here are some of the potential drawbacks of following a vegan diet.When following a vegan diet, you can develop certain micronutrient deficiencies if you're not careful You'll want to keep an eye on which nutrients are in your foods. Vegan diets tend to be rich in many nutrients, low in saturated fat and cholesterol, and also higher in dietary fiber. But there are many nutrients that those following a vegan diet oftentimes do not consume enough of. If you're not careful, following a vegan diet can cause you to develop some deficiencies in vitamin D, calcium, omega-3 fatty acids, and zinc.These deficiencies can impact your body in a variety of ways, possibly causing you to have a weakened immune system, a higher risk of experiencing bone fractures, high blood pressure, rashes, or fatigue. When following a vegan diet, you'll want to keep a close eye on your iron levelsIron plays a crucial role in transporting oxygen throughout your body but it can be difficult to get enough of it when following a vegan diet. There are two types of iron: heme iron and non-heme iron. Heme iron is found only in animal sources. Since those following a vegan diet do not consume heme iron, they must rely on non-heme iron, which can be found in plant sources, including fruits and vegetables. Unfortunately, it is not as readily absorbed by the body as heme iron is.In addition, certain plant-based compounds can further inhibit iron absorption, making it more difficult for those following a vegan diet to consume enough iron, per a paper published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition in 2010.Read More: 10 signs and symptoms you may have an iron deficiencyNot consuming enough iron could cause you to feel lethargic and it could put you at risk for developing iron-deficiency anemia, which is a potentially serious condition that occurs when your body isn't making enough red blood cells. Vegans are at risk of developing a vitamin-B12 deficiency, which can have irreversible effects if left untreatedUnfortunately, this deficiency can be tough to detect. According to the National Institutes of Health, many vitamin-B12-deficiency symptoms can be mistaken for other conditions such as weight loss, appetite loss, constipation, fatigue, weakness, and anemia. Some neurological symptoms of this deficiency that are potentially irreversible include numbness or tingling in the hands and feet, issues with balance, and even dementia.Read More: How to know if you're not getting enough vitamin BAiming to eat a varied, nutrient-dense diet and potentially taking supplements that contain B12 and other vitamins may help you to avoid certain deficiencies. Getting enough protein can also be a challenge for some vegans — but there are plenty of plant-based proteins that can helpChickpeas are a great source of plant-based protein.iStockAmong other things, a protein deficiency can cause fatigue, hair loss, and swelling. Since this diet does not include meat, a popular protein source for many, those who follow a vegan diet must be careful to consume plenty of high-quality, vegan-friendly proteins."Vegan protein sources include but are not limited to tempeh, soy foods (such as tofu, edamame, and soy milk), legumes (such as chickpeas, black beans, and lentils), nuts (such as almonds, walnuts, cashews), seeds (such as flax seeds or chia seeds), seitan, and quinoa," said Jessica Jones, MS, RD, CDE and cofounder of the healthy-living website, Food Heaven Made Easy.Read More: 10 vegan foods that are packed with proteinThe vegan diet isn't sustainable or practical for everyone
What's really scary is the risk of mental health issues.
Children these days are isolated and on social media or gaming constantly. They don't have the same connections and families are more disaparate than before. It's not like pre-digital age, when we would ride our bikes or kick a football around or just turn up at a friends house to play on a computer.
Now we're all locked inside. So that's a big burden on mental health and then a lack of nutrients isn't going to help.
I'm a bit scared about the popularity of pro-vegan and veg lifestyles. Not only is it B12 but Iodine, Calcium, Zinc, Selenium is far less. Zinc and Selenium are needed to protect the gut and mucous lining in the gut. So quite a lot of nuts and beans will be needed to replace that.
I see it a bit like smoking. Some people can smoke their whole lives and never have any major health issues. Others will get cancer or some kind of lung disease.
Going Vegan is a risk if your body relies on certain nutrients to be OK. And sometimes we don't know what we need.
So much about our health cannot be measured .
This feels a bit like the studies in nasal spray and sublingual delivery which report a raising of B12 levels. I guess the rubbing action might slightly increase the likelihood of it being absorbed through the skin but I’m concerned that the test measured only bloods and there was no mention of how the patients felt. If you can absorb B12 from the stomach then this will almost certainly work as some will be swallowed but so would a tablet. If not then it might affect the bloods but like many on here, I tried a number of forms of delivery before self injecting and they all had little or no affect on my symptoms.
Yes I wonder if the premise is the same as sublinguals? That its absorbed through the mucous membrane in a toothpaste form?
The problem we have is that ProVeg probably have no idea of the effectiveness of B12 toothpaste. But the research does suggest it can work for people as a way to avoid deficiency.
"Provided an additional daily intake of approximately + 7 µg oral B12"
Scientist, not medic.
I despair when I read things like this.
I know that some folks have very strongly held beliefs regarding Veganism and Vegetarianism, but it's worth noting that we [humans] are omnivores, and as such, we get what we need from a vary varied diet. If we drop a range of nutrients from our diet, and then rely on getting supplements from well-known outlets to make up the difference, well, I think that's where the answer lies.
Enforcing veganism on children worries me. Enforcing veganism on cats and dogs, ditto.
But it's not something I can be bothered to argue!
I think the noise is getting louder with the view that a reduction in farming is better for the environment. In many cases it isn't, but the message is infiltrating well-meaning people who think it's the right thing to do but don't really know how to plan and prepare the correct diet.
More work should be done to study nutrition in general. We need some B12 experts, evidently, but none to be found. Just a couple of well meaning medics (Chandy, Pachalok etc) who have subverted the system.
Think we're headed for some trouble if we don't start getting better educated on diet and nutrition. And we may have to simply accept that, as omnivores, we can only survive by farming animals.
So the only answer seems to be to reduce the population by stemming reproduction. I can't see any other way out of it all. We simply need fewer mouths to feed to sustain life as it is.
VeganHealth did a review of studies on B12-fortified toothpaste:
veganhealth.org/vitamin-b12...
They found it effective in raising B12 levels, but in my view that's far from proving it would be safe as a sole dietary source.
I wouldn't regard it as a trustworthy B12 source on its own and I never tried it , actually I've not come across it in health stores but perhaps I need to look harder.
I'm not concerned per-se about the popularity of veganism (I am vegan...) but what does concern me is the low quality and inconsistent message about what a safe minimum dosage of B12 is and how to get it along with lack of advice on the need to pay attention to getting the other nutrients mentioned and supplementing them where necessary. This extends as far as messages I have seen from nutrition courses from US Ivy League university courses that Nori is a viable source of B12 (its not). Poor supplementation advice from medical professionals is something that caused huge problems for me and that other vegans may likely face too.
Although you can get plenty of Selenium from Brazil nuts the amount seems to be quite variable but one a day (might) be adequate so not a huge amount need be eaten. Its easy enough to meet the RDA for Zinc but reduced availability of Zinc indicates the probable necessity of a small supplement (6-10-mg).
Iodine is not impossible to get either but I suspect many vegans either do not eat sufficient seaweed or do not take a supplement which can easily put your thyroid in jeopardy.
Calcium definitely needs attention from both my own research and testing via cronometer. Calcium fortified plant milks are important there as are leafy greens. But I still think a small extra supplement of 200-300mg is a good idea.
Omega 3 EPA/DHA could be useful too and something many people take already. Vitamin D obviously but thats true of everyone.
Iron is kind of overrated in terms of how difficult it is to get enough on a vegan diet, especially if the diet is rich in Legumes, Vitamin C and beta-carotene sources. I make no special effort to get sufficient Iron but I get 2.5 times the RDA. Yes its non-heme Iron but thats still more than enough and non-heme iron is less inflammatory (and the body can control absorption of it better) than the heme variety.
Protein is also a bit overrated in terms of how hard it is to get sufficient amounts or quality on vegan diets. Just making sure to eat 2-3 servings of legumes a day and some whole grains should be sufficient. For older adults or very active people some protein powder may help.
There are custom designed supplements that cover all the above which are convenient for those who dont want to stress about figuring out how to get them, dont like seaweed or Brazil Nuts etc. They may not be very well known yet unfortunately but hopefully growing growing awareness.
I wanted to mention to Taurine because although its not essential, I do think its useful/helpful as a supplement for many reasons.
lovecomplement.com/products...
eimele.com/products/simon?r...
hippo7.com/collections/supp...
In general I agree that following a poorly planned vegan diet can get you into big trouble nutritionally speaking and there is some learning and skills needed in terms of both nutrition and cooking. For those with allergies, FODMAP issues or significant time constraints on food preparation it can definitely be a challenge to stay healthy and not rely on "vegan junk food".
Thanks for these insights. I guess the well planned diet is the key message regardless of your affiliations. Even a poor meat eating diet will lead to problems.
For me it was certainly too many carbs, which put strain on my B1 supplies as well as B12.
Carbs in themselves are not the problem, the issue is with finding, preparing and eating the right kind of carbs (whole grains, legumes etc). And not that so called "wholegrain" sliced pan via Chorleywood process in the supermarket with 25 ingredients. Just wholegrain flour, water, yeast and salt and ideally a sourdough. Those might take a bit more effort to find, even though its a much simpler food than some of the supermarket concoctions. Legumes and Grains are also decent sources of Thiamine which helps process the carbs.
Legumes and whole grains are staples of the longest lived cultures in the world. The Okinawan diet from Blue Zones contain the Okinawan sweet potato as 67% of the diet. Thats a lot of carbs but from a very nutritious food. You need to look at the type and form of food consumed not just the fact that the diet is high in carbs etc.
Sure, absolutely. I suppose I used the word carbs as a pejorative - the really bad carbs. Pasta, pizza, white rice. I was eating alot of sushi thinking I was getting my fish and protein and B12. And I was, but I was also asking my body to use that up quickly to process the white rice.
I also wonder if local nutrition plays a part. I.e. I'm British and grew up on a British diet of farmed animals, dairy (alot of milk), roasts, etc. Also my mother is Scots/Irish so we had potatoes with EVERYTHING !
In my adult life I've survived off convenience foods alot of the time. And as I say, ingested all the bad carbs due to work stress - it's comforting and convenient.
It reminds me of the signs they started putting up in my little British village I grew up in to 'please don't feed the ducks.' I wondered why, as we always did it as kids, and they said the ducks fill their bellies with white bread and miss out on plankton and other nutrients in the pond. So they were getting ill and not surviving.
So is it something to do with environment? And how we evolved? My genes may be very British/Irish in that sense and introducing alot of pasta, white rice knocks it off it's tracks. Whereas Japanese have evolved out of sweet potatoes for centuries? So their DNA is comforted by that?
I hear so much about mediteranean diet as the optimal. But what about all the Vitamin D they get from the sun? And all the sunshine their tomatoes get? Their food may just be more nutrient-dense surely?
I feel like we need a University of nutrition set up somewhere!
Yep. To my knowledge the traditional mediterranean diet is one of the best but you cant discount all that nice sun-derived vitamin D they get that we dont get enough of in these cold northern climes.
Theres wholegrain pasta too you know? but yeah best to stay well clear of white pasta, white rice etc. Its been robbed of all the good stuff leaving only a straight sugar spike to system. Only useful for setting oneself up for diabetes....
For sure, I did usually go for Wholegrain pasta too.
I think in the end it was more that there was just pasta and cheese and tomato on my plate with not alot of protein. So I guess it mediterranean in the sense of westernised pizza, pasta - tomoato sauce and cheese. And possibly an upset gut from a very unvaried diet. Who knows, but I've certainly changed how I eat since then!
Harvard Health blog : A practical guide to the Mediterranean diet :
I absolutely love the input from everyone regarding their views about eating meat or not and if the toothpaste is suitable or not.
Our belief systems are what pave the way for our lives and I feel that what we believe we shall receive.
I have been a meat eater, veggie and vegan to then a meat eater again. I honestly feel we should listen to the body and do what's best for us and not a society as a whole.
I have been at my sickest when I drank alcohol in any amounts. Sugar in any amounts. Gluten in any amounts and dairy in any amounts. I also only eat meat when I absolutely crave it. I like to eat a mixture of fruits and veggies to feel at my best.
Oh, and to throw a spanner in the works I don't believe in fluoride toothpaste and only use fluoride free and I have never had a filling at the age of 43 
Do what's best for you at the time of life you are in.
Love to you all ❤️
B12 self injecting advice
Advice on testing for B12
B12 treatment progress advice
