Just wondering if any of you have experienced a sudden dramatic increase or return of somewhat unjustified anger when you have a challenging experience/day?
I've been doing B12 injections for a year and a few months now since being diagnosed with PA, and today, I accidentally got locked out of my house and had to shelter in my car in an unheated garage for about 20 minutes while I waited for my SO to drive home and rescue me. It was around (-10) degrees Fahrenheit.
When I got back in the house I had loud ringing in one of my ears, something that's become MUCH less frequent since starting B12 therapy. And as the day wore on and evening came, I felt fairly irrationally angry about lots of little things. It's the kind of sudden, intense, not super rational anger that would bubble up more and more frequently before I was diagnosed with PA. Since taking shots, my SO has testified my nasty temper has mellowed significantly, and I agree with him!
Feelin grumpy...Thanks for your input!
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Cobalt1312
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Thanks for replying Nackapan - I was also quite upset with myself. I struggle some with memory, where if something is out of sight, it is also out of mind. I had left my keys in the glovebox of my SO's car 3 days before, and once I put them in there and couldn't see them, they were completely gone from memory until I needed them to get to a blood draw appointment.
I thought I'd just leave the back door unlocked and hurry back quickly. Well, my extra car key was out of battery, this I discovered when trying to start the car! Then, I tried to go back in the 'unlocked' back door, and the outer door which doesn't need a key was FROZEN shut.
My SO mentioned about 4 days ago that when he went out back to take the trash, he then had to come around front because he also couldn't open the outer back door, as it froze shut .
All these memory foibles really added up to put me in a somewhat dangerous situation. Sometimes I feel so discouraged. Like I've become less and less competent as my health declined leading up to my PA diagnosis. I'm sure I was having a strong emotional reaction, in addition to the physical strain from the freezing cold!
So glad you've made enough progress to have energy to get angry!! And so glad for your helpful neighbor that day!! Thanks for sharing your experience
I believe B12 is the 'oil' for the parasympathetic nervous system, and if someone has a deficiency it can make the parasympathetic nervous system behave in a raw sort of way. I believe this includes symptoms like tinnitus and general difficulties with management of emotions or fight/flight responses.
That's maybe what you had, was an extreme fight/flight reaction of "how will I get back in" (your brain told your gut there was a problem which drained your B12 a little) followed by an attack on the nerves from low temperatures. That's a lot for a weakened nervous system.
All I can suggest is to keep going. Like Churchill said, "If you're going through hell, keep going". It will improve with more B12, good sleep, nutrition, and care and attention to your bowel and gut. The vagus nerve can be more overworked in more sensitive people - it's not something a Doctor would ever agree on though.
Also - scientific reports now prove that engaging in meditation can assist with improving the gut microbiome. So if you have a happy and relaxed gut--and enough B12--you'll have a happier nervous system. In theory, of course, I'm not a medically trained person!
Pickle500, thanks for taking the time to reply! I like your analogy a lot. As my health deteriorated more and more before my PA diagnosis, I've had quite a lot of trouble with autonomic hyper-arousal, and extreme heightened sensitivity to 'danger.' I'm still recovering and struggling with nervous system hypersensitivity. It's actually one of my most debilitating symptoms.
Like I was just telling Nackapan, as my health has declined, I've struggled with intense emotions about feeling less effective/productive/competent/independent. I really rely on my SO for a lot of things, and calling him for help yesterday was a huge blow to my self-esteem. I was definitely having lots of strong emotions about my situation! Both because of the actual danger, and the feelings of failure.
I agree with all you say! I am working really hard on my gut health currently - probiotics, bovine immunoglobulin, LOTS of fruits and veggies - recently started some meditation too! Thank you so much for that encouragement, this can be hell, and I will keep going! Thank you friend!
Lots of sympathy for you. I had bouts of irrational anger over insignificant things along with lots of other symptoms like dizziness, migraine and feelings of being a failure and unable to cope with simple admin tasks which I used to fly through resulting in a real lack of confidence which are much better/ gone since I started self injecting twice a week however if I don’t keep up with the jabs the symptoms creep back.
I also have hypothyroidism which doesn’t help. Good luck with your self help. We are all different but more frequent injections of B 12 helped me a lot.
liliz thank you for your kind words and for sharing your experiences too. It's hard when you struggle to complete tasks and feel bad/symptomatic physically. I'm so glad you're doing better with more frequent injections.
I think I probably did get depleted when I got locked out. The next time I injected I was able to breathe quite a bit deeper. I sort of associate that with my body being more deprived at the time of injecting.
Good luck on your journey as well, and take very good care!
There's a programme on BBC Radio 4 called Just One Thing. Each episode looks at one small change people can make to improve their health. Some episodes deal with gut issues.
I just realized that I needed to take extra B12 due to a high work load this week. I am on disability payment and can work to earn some extra income. This week I was supposed to work 2 days but I have already worked 3 days, and I may have to work again tomorrow.
Yesterday afternoon I noticed that my tinnitus was unusually servere after working 3 full days... Now I know why.
I have early on noticed that I need more B12 when I get sick. Unfortunately I often get so sick that I cannot muster energy to take the injection. But as soon as I can get a little energy burst I start the injections.
It doesn't take much to throw my body off the healing path. Thank God it gets easier and easier to get back on track.
Labowner thank you for sharing! You insights about your work and when you get sick are helpful for me too. I'm also on disability, and I'm trying to get to the point where I can work some too. So it's encouraging to me to hear some of your experience, and have the hope that I can look forward to trying to be more active, knowing that I may need to employ care strategy when that happens, including possibly needing more B12.
'It doesn't take much to throw my body off the healing path. Thank God it gets easier and easier to get back on track.'
Thank you for that gem! I feel like you've both normalized my lived experience and given me hope for continued increasing resilience!
To meditate you need to be able to clear your mind and focus, so not doable for me sadly. The gut biome is key though, I've read a lot about that. Dr Michael Mosley is one of those investigating that phenomenon. I'd recommend his books, especially the Clever Guts Diet, which has some fab recipies too. Very accessible way in to understanding why it's so important.
I saw another good quote with that same sentiment, at the end of a film I saw the other day: Let everything happen to you, beauty and terror, just keep going, no feeling is final (athough it feels like that atm!) - Rainer Maria Rilke
Now my neurological symptoms are improving I express my anger differently. It is a bit scarry. I found that expressing it to an empty chair helpful.Any stress increases my neurological symptoms temporarily.
Thanks so much for sharing WIZARD6787. If you feel comfortable sharing, I'd be interested to learn more about how you experience your anger differently. Not that I want juicy details, just I'm encouraged to hear that you have experienced change in this way as you've healed neurologically! I think expressing anger to an empty chair sounds very creative and like something that emotionally competent people would do!
I also feel like almost literally any stress increases my nervous system sensitivity. If I'm not vigilant and careful I end up unable to sleep literally all night, and I might end up having a huge crying meltdown as my body attempts to release the 'pressure valve.'
Hey Cobalt, This is the way I see my anger having changed as I self treat with B12 and B6. It is anything but linear, in fact it is variable. It is distressing to have it so different even though I feel the change is from healling. It might be more intense or less than it was.
I seperate how my anger affects me and how it affects others. I seldom have need to express my anger towards others.
I do not work on why I am angry rather on how to express it, the why comes after I express. I rant out loud with out restraint. It would be vile were I not alone. I never threaten rather just express how I feel. Lots of vile name calling.
I also throw things, darts at a plank, baseballs at the side of my shed, rocks and sticks in the water etc. I do it both left and right handed. I try and use my whole body and follow through. Sometimes I do not have an object to throw and do the motion to a imaginary spot in space.
The effect is varied. Sometimes I shake or shudder, sometimes I cry, sometimes I laugh, and sometimes I just shrug then laugh at myself. Sometimes I do not notice the effect until later.
I used to break glass of dinerware by throwing rocks. Cleaning up after that just got to be more trouble than it was worth.
To release general tension I walk and hum or just hum, with the thought of rattling my skull with the vibration.
It is more complicated to write down than in practice.
WIZARD6787 I really appreciate you taking the time to give so much detail and insight into your healing experience as it relates to anger! I'm so encouraged by you!
I often have the impulse to throw things at the wall or break things. Actually, I would do that more earlier on in my recovery, and increasingly before I was diagnosed. One time I was so stressed I broke my glasses (for vision) in half. In retrospect, it was not a good object to destroy, but in the moment I felt so horrible and unable to escape the distress.
I relate about the variability of how my body responds to stress can be quite unsettling. Like you, I sometimes don't notice a reaction until later, which though is progress from having a more immediate meltdown, it can throw me off because I thought I was 'totally fine.' It can make it hard to predict how big of a reaction I will have, even if I am progressing in the general right direction.
Cobalt, you are most welcome! It is helpful for me to write in general and if I know someone may read it I am somewhat more careful about trying to not be off the wall. 😀. In the four days since I commented I have come to believe that part of what is going on is that as my neurological system heals my ability to experience more emotions at once increases where before it was best to pick one. Using anger as the one I picked did not work the same and as it was new it was confusing. At first it was distressful.
When I take my food supplements I can be nervous I will make a mistake, annoyed at the expense, pissed off I have to take them at all, sad/grieve that I lived a life without them, be thankful I figured out I needed them, bored it is so constant etc.
As my cognitive abilities change that follows somewhat the same concept.
My healing and growing from having better nutrients in a form my body can utilize is a wax and wane thing. Over time it is a positive experience.
WIZARD6787, I love what you've uncovered! That's huge and wonderful about your increased capacity to feel emotions!! I mean, clearly the emotion we go through isn't always pleasant, but it really is a strength to have access to a broader range of information about what we're experiencing. It sounds like your cognitive abilities are sort of on a parallel for recovery and ability, that is so wonderful!! Sending high fives to you!!
Thank you for the high fives!!When I composed a reply in my head it was going to state that the physical part of my healing is lagging behind other progress.
I came to understand that in my head I wanted to get back to swimming half a mile a day. I still want to get back to that however I was using it as a measure improvement.
Pretty much until I can do that nothing else counted.
I have regrouped and using where I was physically when I left the United States in the end of December as my measure for now.
It's hard not progressing the way we expect or hope to, even when we make gains in other areas. I can relate to being focused on more 'physical' symptoms resolving. I've also used the ability to perform different activities as markers of progress, only to realize I needed to re-evaluate my expectations and make adjustments.
It takes a lot of strength and resilience to become aware of how we think, and then even more to regroup!
Sounds like leaving the U.S. was a significant milestone for you. Kuddos to you for your self-awareness and will to carry on when you realized you were using a measure of progress that made you feel unsuccessful. That takes a lot of courage.
A top US psychiatrist interviewed on radio 4 recommended that one of the best practices you can do is to just scribble angry thoughts out on any old paper just as they come without editing. Make sure you soak or burn it afterwards though !
Doesn’t seem much but I’ve found it really works 🤗
Thanks for that! I had heard of it before and tried it. I was missing just any old paper and not editing. I also never heard of soaking them. I am in a place where I do not have a place to burn things like I do at home.
I tended to write a letter that could maybe be sent and then have the stress of deciding if I should. I can make things so complicated they have no value. 😀
I suggested soaking as this is what I do but, I suppose could also just cross it all out or tear into pieces, before throwing in the bin …...
I hadn’t quite realised quite how important this whole exercise of writing down was until I happened to be on the receiving end of a terrible over the top tirade from a close family member with PA/B12 def. after she’d been given various medications for infections, which on reflection had most probably negated the benefit of B12 injections 😱😰
Polaris thanks for this tool! I am adding it to my kit!
Wow, so sorry you were on the receiving end of a B12 deficiency tirade!! I hope your family member is doing better now. Are you saying antibiotics can drain B12? I'm relatively new to PA and am curious about this!
Thank you so much Sleepybunny! I'm going to check this out! I bought his auto-biography and I was actually really encouraged (strange as that sounds) to read that he got to the point that he had to stop teaching because his anger and sensory stimulation were so severe.
To be clear, I am so very sad by how devastated his life was, and how horribly he was treated medically. But I could relate so strongly with that he described that it was just like "Oh my gosh, I'm not crazy!" and I felt like crying with relief.
PA is so invisible. It can be extremely disorienting! Thank you again for your helpful reply!
Onlyme75, that was me this morning to my SO. Just like saying super negative things and feeling like poison was coming out of my body. It's become much harder to 'get rid' of stress as developed B12 issues. Often it seems like if I accidentally pass a certain stress threshold, the only way back down is intense crying and or venting really negative thoughts.
Yes, when I got so angry the night I wrote this post, several times I was like "Wait, why am I SO angry about this issue?"
Glad your husband is helpful in catching your deficiency/anger creep up. Mine notices somewhat too.
I understand feeling like injecting is a BIG chore. It is!! Sorry about your poor arms, PA is a real challenge and I wish you relief in this area of it!!
I can empathise with intense crying. I used to have crying fits and strangely sometimes I didn't know why I was crying....sadly sometimes it was the experiences I had with doctors that made me cry.
Thanks for sharing Sleepybunny, it's nice to hear when other people have similar experiences. Makes one feel less of an oddity. I relate to not always knowing why I was crying. For me, it seems like stress can kind of gradually creep up, and then my nervous system says "Too much! Time to dump some energy!" and the thing that triggers that response might be something I'd think was fairly innocuous.
I'm so sorry you've been mistreated by doctors. They really do have a lot of power, for good and bad. Hugs!
Yes to both: memory problems and angry irrational overreaction, and both worse when stressed.
In fact, at my worst, I actually felt as if it was only the anger (adrenalin-fuelled ?) getting me through a working day still on my feet. Often then at my most angry when on my way home - involved a crowded tube and bus journey. Dragging myself through my days the best way I could.
So Nackapan - when you said that you didn't previously have the energy to be angry, that makes some sort of weird sense to me. Congratulations : in your case, anger= improvement !
Cherylclaire, amen! Stress makes everything harder to balance - UGH!! My memory can be horrible when I'm stressed.
I really appreciate you sharing about the adrenaline-fuelled anger at your job. I think I was probably experiencing and harnessing that to get through the day too! It never occurred to me. PA really is pernicious and sneaking. Thank you for that insight, and I'm sorry you went through that ❤️
Nackapan - you're recovering enough to have energy for anger makes sense to me too and I'm so glad for your healing!!!
I totally relate to that. I think it's my anger that keeps me going. Otherwise I'd be depressed and not fighting the system, so if that's the price I have to pay for justice, so be it.
Anger is an extreme response after all, not a rational one that comes with calm and reasoning. Fortunately, or possibly not, I vent and erupt alone and don't inflict it on other people. I guess in the end I'm the one who suffers most from the high levels of stress
Nackapan, that sounds so frightening what you went through. I agree with you about emotions taking so much energy. Sometimes, when I'm worried about something or I know I'm about to get important news, I will get a big drop in energy to the point that I experience dizziness.
I think the autonomic damage can be really hard to manage. Good on you for your amazing perseverance and continued healing! You inspire me!
Thank you so much SigNi! I'm encourage that you forgot rage and intense anxiety were some of your symptoms. It sounds to me like you must have improved a lot!! 🥳❤️
Hope it improves. Have to say though, as a woman of 60, I think I have a lot of "justified" rage (and it more enraging when it's attributed to hormones!). Just saying, sometimes it's hard to tell the difference between B12 issues and suddenly remembering something some arse got away with saying 30 years ago. 😂
I don't relate to anger being 'justified' or not - it's a way we can react and is valid, as are feelings in general. I try not to judge them. I'd be very upset if I'd done the same. I can be quite reactive and anything could trigger irritation, rage even. I have zero tolerance right now and can get extremely impatient. My own stress levels have shot through the roof. I'm sure that much of this is down to neurological damage and feeling like shite. I struggle with being around people as a result - it makes me really anti-social and not much company.
Mixteca, you're absolutely right about anger just being a natural reaction. When I mentioned 'unjustified anger' I think I was really meaning that I was having anger to a level of intensity that didn't fit what was going on. Like getting really mad that someone was sitting next to me on the couch, or things I normally would tolerate well.
I like what you say about not judging your feelings. That's a really good mindfulness practice!
I'm sorry you're having such a rough time right now. I relate to not wanting to be around people. Especially when I'm already depleted, I feel like I'm absorb other people's energy, and it can feel enraging, even when those other people are happy. It's like too much electricity running through a fragile, frayed copper wire. Their energy dominates my power grid. Overload when I'm struggling to get my own internal messages sent.
I hear you. Just the sound of my neighbours going about their lives is trigger enough for me - even the tap dripping drives me bonkers. It's hard too as people don't seem to get it, to relate to the extent of my illness and symptoms, not that I've given them a rundown of my ailments of course. I don't want to have to explain everything, just for them to trust me when I say I'm unwell and cannot do things I did very easily before. Me rarely being ill normally isn't a red flag for them it seems.
Mixteca I am so sympthetic to the neighbors bothering you. We have moved twice for that reason. I just can't handle the noise. I don't care if it was my very dearest friend in the entire world, if you're making 'too much' noise (I'm sure my threshold is a lot lower than most people's) I hate you with a passion!! It gets exhausting trying to relate how completely pernicious anemia affects our health, especially when people seem to lack a basic grasp of how something 'invisible' could really be that devastating. I struggle with feeling like I have imposter syndrome. I'm ill, but not in the way that's traditionally acknowledged, visible, or understood. Even illness and disability seem to have a hierarchy of 'privilege'.
Totally agree. My threshold is lower than anyone I've ever known. I'm noise sensitive anyway, but the PA has made my tolerance level non-existent. The 'invisible' issue is spot on - if people cannot 'see' your struggles, they find it very hard to relate to them. That's the thing that creates so much stigma, a hierarchy of disability as you say. I've lost count of how many times I've had to move home over the years, and I still have a few more to go as my current home doesn't meed my needs. That's the hardest part but absolutely crucial when you need to control your immediate environment. Carbon-neutral homes are the way forward! I cannot bear the feeling that I'm living with total strangers, there's that little privacy.
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