British story vaguely about B12 and dementia

[WiscGuy]

I ran across this recent news story while looking for something else, and since it's in (I think) a British publication, some people here might be interested.

express.co.uk/life-style/he...

[Nackapan]

Yes.Thanks.

Any short stories out there for awareness is good.

Recently my husband overheard two school children talking about b12 as one was tested.

The other as corrected as thought iron deficiency and was told its different .

It certainly wasn't in my vocabulary at their age .

[Technoid]

"The patient was asked to modify her diet and to add beef liver daily."

🤣

What is this the 1800's? I was also told by my idiot GP at the time to add meat to my diet 2 years after being told to take 1/30 of the minimum B12 supplementation. What absolute nonsense.

[Polaris in reply to Technoid]

‘ The Vegetarian Myth’, written by Lierre Keith, a vegan for 20 years, is a very sensitive, honest and intelligent book. “Lions and hyenas and humans don’t have a ruminant’s digestive system. Literally, from our teeth to our rectums we are designed to eat meat. We have no mechanism to digest cellulose.”

and , “the lesson is profound………..we need to be eaten as much as we need to eat”.

A very close vegetarian member of my family has been in a nursing home for seven years after very many years of wrongly diagnosed ME/CFS. I wish this book and the internet had been available many years ago.

Dr Terry Wahl, had severe neurological problems, but now promotes her paleo diet.

[Technoid in reply to Polaris]

The Vegetarian Myth is crammed full of nonsense, like it's author:

m.youtube.com/watch?v=oMuxg...(Not working as expected?)

I would be the first to admit that a poorly planned vegan or vegetarian diet (and that means one that doesnt include sufficient B12 from fortified foods or supplements) has severe health consequences. It is unfortunate that many vegetarians or vegans do not have good information on the importance of supplementing B12 and other nutrients and the correct dosage/frequency etc but that's a matter of getting good information out there about that whenever such diets are promoted. Veganhealth are doing an excellent job here and have some of the best information on B12 on the internet : veganhealth.org/daily-needs... .

[Polaris in reply to Technoid]

You’re entitled to your opinion Technoid and I was not wishing to start an argument ! Just pointing out from a ripe age, that I have seen from family and friends on a vegan/vegetarian diet that it is not generally healthy long term for women, especially after age 60……

PS. Would just say from his rather bombastic attitude that he not someone I would personally trust. I’d read her book - you cannot condense the information contained in it into a short video !

[Technoid in reply to Polaris]

He's a bit over the top I would have to agree but makes valid points. From the conversational extracts with Lierre Keith its pretty clear she hasn't a notion what she's on about.

[Polaris in reply to Technoid]

youtu.be/0TIf_CsNgo8(Not working as expected?)

[Technoid in reply to Polaris]

"A very convincing chart" 😂 "Ivor is going on the science isn't he" 😂 its no wonder Dr.Greger burst out laughing.

[Polaris in reply to Technoid]

You only have to look at the comments to see who was more convincing and respectful. Shame that Dr Greger looked so anaemic.

Can’t help noticing either that Lierre Keith looks so much healthier since she changed her diet to meat !

[Polaris in reply to Polaris]

PS. The Truth about Red Meat :

chriskresser.com/review-on-...

[Technoid in reply to Polaris]

Rather than getting into an endless back and forth on specific claims, this video might be more helpful as it explains well how to to validate these kind of claims. Think about Ivor's graph in relation to the "ecological" data that Gil describes in his video. Dr.Greger also noted it was ecological data but why that actually matters is hard to explain in the very time-limited TV debate format.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=nJPcL...(Not working as expected?)

This one is also excellent :

m.youtube.com/watch?v=uc-fD...(Not working as expected?)

I've been vegan for most of my adult life now so trust me, there isn't an argument against veganism I havent heard and I long lost the interest in getting into endless forum debates on it. Hell I'm willing to argue against poorly planned vegan diets myself and wouldnt advocate that someone try veganism long-term without a good knowledge of how to get your macro and micronutrients right - its by no means impossible but it does require some thought and planning along with correct supplementation - information about which is all thankfully now easily available.

But its good to keep things in perspective and not throw the baby out with the bathwater like you see with those advocating carnivore diets etc. There is a lot of excellent nutrition science out there and it makes sense to use that to guide your own dietary choices. Otherwise you are risking your own health or those who you convince that your particular dietary pattern is "the right one" and this other one is poison and will destroy your health. It's really not that simple.

You need to look at the overall dietary pattern and of course individual food sensitivities, taking into account the best current nutritional science, and based on that, you can start to see whether a particular diet is likely less or more healthy than another in the long term.

A vegetarian or vegan diet is not necessarily healthy or unhealthy in and of itself - there is a massive difference between for example, a junk food vegan diet based on refined carbs, deep-fried foods, processed fake meats, soft drinks, sweets, chocolate, sugar, saturated fat and no supplementation whatsoever, versus a whole food plant based diet with careful attention to adequate protein quality and quantity, fruits + berries, nuts, legumes and protein powder as needed, plenty of veg + greens and beta-carotene sources, and supplementation of the vegan nutrients of concern in regular, adequate doses.

This is a good interview with an author of a book : "The Irrational Ape" about human psychology, flawed logic, skeptical thought and reasoning : podomatic.com/podcasts/skep...

[Technoid in reply to Technoid]

An excellent balanced take on the that TV debate from Gil Carvalho:

m.youtube.com/watch?v=3Xjmv...(Not working as expected?)

[Pickle500]

Just my take on the debate - I believe it is a matter of balance.

I don't anyone can really say they're an expert in B12. Not even Dr. Chandy or Sally Pachalok.

B12 is involved in so many bodily functions - toxin removal, sleep regulation, blood cell formation to name a few. But Dr Chandy also suggests it is the default deficiency when protein stores are low and is the 'Master Vitamin' when other meat based nutrients are low including zinc, magnesium, and other B vitamins.

With the gut and thyroid playing a role too, its likely that some people need more B12 than others. People who are stressed, have a more sensitive gut, exercise hard, live in stressful polluted cities or drink alcohol may need more B12 or B vitamins in general. But no-one is talking about that regarding veganism because they don't know about it.

On the other hand, excess processed meats and refined carbs are very likely to lead to disease and there are papers to back this up.

So, I believe it is a balance. One way is not better than the other. Its just that we do live in polarising times and want to say we're right and they're wrong. Perhaps that process is needed so that we find a bit more peace in the middle ground. Hope so.