Betaine HCl (hydrochloric acid) for autoimmune atrophic gastritis low acid pain (have PA as well)

Happy Sunday to you... I was wondering if any of you use or have used Betaine HCl (with pepsin) for low acid stomach pain and discomfort. I have tried all the acid reducers per gastro doc which didn't work well or not at all for me, and my stomach continued to get worse. While researching I learned about HCl and asked her if I could try it - she wrote back to me saying that in atrophic gastritis, the pH is elevated so there is less acid and that HCl is not something she generally recommends but didn't think it would hurt me to try. So...I ordered some from Amazon today. I am a little nervous about it since it's such a powerful acid. Any insight you can give me would be appreciated.

[Polaris]

Like you, I thought I’d try it but not for long as quickly found it didn’t agree. This was some years ago so I don’t remember exactly why.

I later read more about the importance of probiotics and the biome. Kefir every morning, a tablespoonful of sauerkraut after meals, together with a gluten free diet, has since worked effectively for me in reducing long term gastric and acid reflux symptoms.

Vogel’s Centaurium, lemon or lime (anything bitter) could work equally well?

[Hidden in reply to Polaris]

Thanks so much for your reply, Polaris. I have read about fermented foods, like kefir and sauerkraut, helping with acid reflux. I tried it for a couple of days one time but it didn't work well. I will try again if HCl doesn't work. I have read that the acid will hurt if you do not truly have low stomach acid or maybe not low enough?

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

I’ve actually just chucked mines in the bin.I have p.a and really suffer badly with gut issues as I also suffer from recurring HPylori.

I decided to start a course of symprove but also sent for hci betaine from Amazon along with some lactose tablets as I’m lactose intolerant.

I’m not sure which has been the worse reacatant for me as I stupidly started all three things within days of each other but my gut and more my rib area pain ,right sided,has been awful again.

I did some more reading on the forum,older posts about HCI and came to the conclusion it wasn’t a good idea at all for me to be taking this with atrophic gastritis and so made my descision to dump it because I didn’t like the feedback I read so it may be a good idea for you to look at some older posts on the forum and get some opinions on this and like Polaris says there are other natural ways to increase the stomach acid but I’d suggest you go very slowly with it unlike myself who jumped in feet first as usual lol.

Best of luck but read some more before you decide, I’m def not a fan of it now I have so much pain in my ribs,I’ve had two ultrasounds in the last 4 weeks and a negative HPylori test so nothing sinister going on in those areas but my gut and rib area are on fire so it’s going to be a fasting day the light diet for me this week.

Take care .

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

Thanks for your comments, and I'm so sorry you're feeling poorly. I will definitely read some old posts. In the meantime, my order came in just before dinner tonight so I tried it. It worked pretty well. I didn't have nearly the discomfort after eating as I usually do - but I don't feel perfect (I didn't expect to). I will for sure try it again tomorrow. Thanks again, and have a great week - at least try to. I know how bad you must feel.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

I have PA and gastritis, plus a hiatus hernia and I have been advised by my gastrologist and GP to take PPI's. They all just assume we have high stomach acid but I've said all along I know mine is low. I tried Somac for 3 weeks. I had agreed to give it a one month trial but pulled out because my indigestion and reflux was much worse. It took me a couple of weeks of taking apple cider vinegar and swedish bitters in water first thing in the morning and 2 HCL and Pepsin capsules after a heavy (or protein) meal to start feeling better. I was told HCL would burn and make gastritis worse, but that's a fallacy. Sometimes I only need one capsule but I have also taken up to 4 after or during a very heavy meal without any burning.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

PPIs were the first thing my gastro doc put me on! I promised to stay on them for two weeks - I did and it was hell, pure hell. From there (not knowing anything about hcl or probiotics, etc at the time) she put me on H2blockers and they were almost as bad. On my own I tried eating tiny meals every two hours. That helped a bit but wasn't great. Then I started researching and learned more about low acid and probiotic foods and hcl. I was flabergasted when she said I could try hcl. She has yet said to me to eat probiotic foods. Thanks for your sharing, it's helpful.

[tough_mother_runner]

I have PA and AMAG. I take betaine HCl with larger meals and I find it to be helpful in having less bloating and discomfort.

[Hidden in reply to tough_mother_runner]

This is a great idea! I tried it for the first time tonight and it really did help. I eat small meals during the day - mostly fruit and vegetables. My instructions say not to take it if you're just having fruit or salad - I guess you should be eat protein before taking it. Thank you.

[wedgewood]

There are instructions on the internet on how to use Betaine HCL . Or you could consult a dietician .

[Hidden in reply to wedgewood]

Hi Wedgewood...yes, I am being very careful and following the instructions on the bottle as well as in the book I'm reading, Why Stomach Acid is Good for You by Jonathan V. Wright, MD and Lane Lenard, Ph.D. This book has been very helpful and is why I started researching HCl in more depth. I'm also interested in how other folks are using it, how they feel on it and any tips they may have.

[wedgewood in reply to Hidden]

That is an excellent book . Good to get as much information about stomach acid as possible . Doctors are only too keen to prescribe PPIs ( Proton Pump Inhibitors )They can cause a lot of trouble if used over a long period . I know that some members on the forum use the Betaine HCL. I hope that they see your post and give you tips

Best of luck and best wishes !

[Hidden in reply to wedgewood]

I have a friend who has been on PPIs for over 15 years. She is unable to get off them and the doc knows she's on them as she sees him/her regularly. I wonder what it will be like for her even after more years on them.

[wedgewood in reply to Hidden]

I know someone who had been on PPIs for a similar length of time . Yes her doctor prescribed them year after year . She eventually got numbness in her feet which spread up her legs . A consultant suspected a problem in her spine . 2 operations later - no improvement . Numbness irreversible . Ended up in a wheelchair. Got out of her wheelchair whilst on holiday , fell over and broke both ankles .— brittle bones . All this caused by severe B12 deficiency and poor absorption of other minerals and vitamins . Culprit ? PPIs causing annihilation of stomach acid which is so very important in the breaking down of our food enabling absorption.

[Hidden in reply to wedgewood]

Yikes! I've told my friend that it isn't good for her but the pain she has when off it is unbearable. She doesn't have acid reflux but something else. But even so I would think the pups are still doing damage.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

Most of my friends (all in our 70's) take PPIs and have for many years. Most also take statin drugs which has always been a no-no for me (after doing a lot of research). I don't think most doctors nowadays think outside the square and question what long time usage of these drugs can do. The drug companies fund most of the research and doctors have just become glorified drug pushers.

[Popoff]

Hi, I use Betaine HCl (with pepsin) whenever I have low stomach acid and works quite well for me. Of course, it is very important to determine the precise dose that you need to take. I normally take one tablet just before lunch/and or dinner. An alternative to Betaine HCI is apple cider vinegar.; one tsp before going to bed should help. I hope that this helps and good luck.

[Hidden in reply to Popoff]

Thank you! I tried ACV a week ago and I literally hurt myself because I think I took too much for the first time (1 T in glass of water). It scared me and didn't do it again. I may try again in a smaller dosage and use the hcl for heavy meals as you and others have suggested. I have read that you should always be eating protein when you take hcl. Is this true for you? I don't eat a lot of meat but rather fish/poultry but not everyday. I wonder if protein from beans and other foods would count when taking hcl. I can't seem to find anything on that.

[Popoff in reply to Hidden]

Any kind of protein is fine. It does not have to be meat based protein.

[Hidden in reply to Popoff]

Thanks! I'm really glad to hear that. (I also responded to you in private chat).

[Littlelodge123]

I have been using Betaine HCL with Pepsin for 4 years. I have PA and Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency.

I would not be without it. I take 2 with a main meal and take them mid way through to simulate the body’s normal process for gastric acid secretion.

I also use ACV with the mother if I run out. Does pretty much the same thing.

[Hidden in reply to Littlelodge123]

Hi. I've only used ACV with the mother, but like I said earlier to Littlelodge I think I over did it the first time and it was a bad experience. Do you take your hcl with any kind of meal or only meals with protein? Thanks for getting back to me.

[Littlelodge123 in reply to Hidden]

Nearly all food has protein in it (except for obvious things like a piece of fruit when I don’t use Betaine then) so yes I have one with breakfast if I have porridge or toast for example. I take two if I have chicken or fish for supper.

[Hidden in reply to Littlelodge123]

Very good to know...thanks.

[JanD236]

I have PA and I’ve been using Betaine HCL with pepsin for a few years and find it helps reduce the bloating, constipation and general digestive discomfort I’d been suffering.

I’ve also had a few courses of Symprove and other probiotics which helped enormously at the start.

I can never fully get rid of the discomfort unfortunately. On occasion it gets worse and I find that the only thing that helps is to eat very lightly for a few days, preferably having bone broth.

[Hidden in reply to JanD236]

Yes, I can see that happening as some days are much better than others for me - no matter what I'm doing. For example, I have a lunch date later today (I'm in US) and I'm worried about what to eat or if I should even bring something with me if we decide to go to a place that is not a better restaurant. I have been known to do that - especially in the beginning of my diagnosis - to bring my own lunch of bland stuff. I've only used hcl once so far (just got the capsules yesterday) so I am hesitant to use them yet in public.

[Rexz]

I take the following before each meal as prescribed by my doctor (although you can purchase these OTC from Amazon) after they figured out what my issue was:

1 Capsule: Betaine HCI 1.3 gram with pepsin 260 mg (1 capsule before each meal) from Integrative Therapeutics.

two tablets: PanPlex 2-Phase - each tablet contains:

Phase I: Betaine HCI 320 mg; Pepsin 220 mg; L-Glutamic Acid 200 mg

Phase 2: Pancreatin USP 168 mg; Amylase; Protease; Lipase; Ox bile 130mg

We've all heard of Betaine HCI is a synthetic plant based acid form

Glutamic Acid Hydrochloride is the hydrochloride salt form of glutamic acid, a non-essential amino acid. Used as a gastric acidifier, glutamic acid hydrochloride releases hydrochloric acid into the stomach, thereby lowering gastric pH. (NCI)

Amylase Protease and Lipase are pancreatic enzymes needed for digestion

Ox bile is just what it sounds like bile from an Ox. ox bile is chemically similar enough to our own bile that our bodies do not have a problem using it to supplement our own bile production.

Low stomach acid depending on how low causes issues with your ENTIRE digestive system. And yes, one of the biggest causes of acid reflux is low stomach acid not too much. especially in the elderly. GI doctors when they see Gastritis automatically think it is caused by high stomach acid so they prescribe PPIs one of the most overprescribed pharmaceuticals.

Low (hypochlorhydria) or no (achlorhydria) stomach acid wreaks havoc on ones digestive system.

I was not able to hold anything down when I ate. My food would just sit in my gut and not move. It felt like I hugely over ate each time. Then about 30 to 45 minutes after eating I would vomit. I lost 90 pounds before we figured out I had zero stomach acid. I did have my stomach PH measured through endoscopy and it was a PH of 6 which doctor said is effectively zero stomach acid. Your stomach PH needs to get to around a PH of 2 highly acidic in order to sterilize and start the digestion process. Very low or no stomach acid wreaks havoc on your entire digestive system. Stomach acid PH of 2 helps activate pepsin and other enzymes in your gut. It turns off the G-cells at the lower part of your stomach to stop producing gastrin (those with PA typically have high levels of gastrin in their blood since these cells never get turned off). High acid level also is what causes the Pyloric Sphincter at the bottom of your stomach to open and release your digested food or now Chyme into the small intestine. That is why my stomach could not process food and I would vomit because with no stomach acid my pyloric sphincter was yelling no way I ain't opening! Then in a normal persons stomach once that high acid chyme enters the small intestine it interacts with the I-cells in the walls of the duodenum and they release a CCK hormone that causes your gallbladder to contract thus releasing bile into the small intestine. So if none of this is working right you may end up with gallbladder sludge. just old bile caused by your gallbladder not contracting. you may end up with SIBO (Small Intestinal Bacteria Overgrowth) where the BAD bacteria takes over your gut biome and just destroys your digestion, you may end up with constipation and or diarrhea.

I had all of these things in spades...I lost 90 pounds and was shriveling away...also had the associated stomach cancer. since I started taking Betaine HCI and the digestive enzymes before meals I can eat again. I had to go through a couple rounds of antibiotic treatments to kill the bad bacteria in my intestines. btw that kills ALL bacteria so for some time you're messed up until you build the good flora biome back. But now I have gained 25 pounds back and doing well

OK sorry I wrote a book again 😂 just thought that may be helpful.

But just to make a point, for many of us Pernicious Anemia - it ain't just B12.

Please note that "anemia" spelled correctly. just not sure what we are going to do with you British! 🤣 Just teaz'n ya...you're a good lot!

Maybe read at night before bed and it will help you fall asleep!

Rex

[Hidden in reply to Rexz]

Oh Rexz, what a mess for you!! I'm so glad it got figured out finally. Your post will be printed out for the edification of my doctor and for me to keep from getting to the point you were. While my doc basically tows the line in conventionality, she does listen to my ideas (thank God as my other specialists do not). Thank you for the great information! I'm ANEMIA as well...in US...but I love how our British friends spell many words differently than us.

[Rexz in reply to Hidden]

Yes, I had a tough go of it for awhile but now I am definitely on the mend. Just took some time to sort things out and a lot of research on my part. If you need any source reports from NLM to present to your doctor let me know I will be glad to help.

And yes, our British friends are wonderful. Only if we could get them to go back to the British Imperial Measurement System and God forbid we ever get them to drive on the right side of the road! 🤣 Oh my teazing is going to get me in trouble! but my humor is what got me through the toughest times.

Rex