I ran across this report and found it interesting although it won't solve any of our issues I thought I'd share anyway. Microbes in soil not only manufacture Vitamin B12 but the whole microbe and animal community depend on it just as we do. I wonder if a microbe can have PA? Maybe only if they can find a Microbe GP willing to diagnose it!!
Vitamin B12: Power broker to the microbes
sciencedaily.com/releases/2...
Enjoy
I think I read somewhere, that b12 deficiency can cause people to crave dirt and clay. I had googled how do elephants get b12, since they don't eat meat, and it said it was from the trace amounts of dirt they ingest. I don't know about microbes, but it said animals suffer from b12 deficiency. Don't know if that was quite what you meant. But thought it was interesting.
Hmmmm, I think if I was going to crave dirt I would want to eat dirt from a sugar cane field so maybe it will be like eating candy! 🤣 All kidding aside though nothing would surprise me with this illness it pretty much affects most everything somehow. I was also curious how other herbivores get their B12. Cattle have a different digestive system with four stomach chambers that allow B12 making microorganisms to thrive so they absorb that B12 in their digestive system. Then there are Mountain Gorillas that are primarily herbivores eating mostly plants but they eat lots of insects packed full of B12. I had not thought about Elephants but that makes sense. I understand human digestive system also has these B12 making microorganisms just they are further along in the intestines' and after where they can be absorbed. None of that helps us with PA anyway as we've no IF...but was just curious.
If I were an elephant I think my dilemma would be to decide whether I should eat the B12 laden dirt or the peanut! decisions, decisions! : )
I believe other mammals get their B12 from bacteria in their guts . Sheep and cattle also need cobalt found in the grass they eat . Clover contains more cobalt than grass . If the soil is low in cobalt , the animals can suffer B12 deficiency, and not thrive . . Sheep especially can suffer badly The farmer will then supplement the grassland with cobalt , inject sick animals with B12 etc.
Thanks wedgewood. who knew! is all kind of fascinating to me. Before I was almost terminated by this PA I never paid attention to the workings of my own body let alone vitamins...like vitamin what is that never took one in my life. Now I know how so important they are.
Yes , spot on ! It’s a shameful that doctors aren’t educated more about our diets, vitamins minerals etc . Pity that Nutrition and Diet are mot important subjects at school. Children should be taught how to buy , look after and prepare good nutritious food . The proliferation of fast food outlets is a source of real concern to me . Yes i know that I sound like an old fuddy-duddy , but i don’t care . Poor nutrition leads to poor health , which costs the NHS dearly .
You have jogged my memory - thank you ! I remember Martyn Hooper speaking at a Thyroid Conference in Birmingham. He started his presentation with a lone sheep on the screen - away from the flock ! He explained this happens when sheep are B12 deficient. He then told us about the large containers of pink fluid in the shed. It seems sheep are better treated than humans. Time to make friends with your local sheep farmer .... !
Yes that’s right . Animals are looked after better than we are . I took a friend’s dog to the vet once and saw her give the dog an injection and asked what it was “. Vitamin B12 “ was the reply . .” We always give one if the animal is below par ! “ What do we have to do to get a b12 injection when we have symptoms ? —, Jump through hoops , plead with the doctor , then give up and Self - Inject if we know how .
I asked my vet to give such an injection to my dementing and collapsing dog, whom he had diagnosed with some arcane neurological disease. He said, "Vitamin B was all the rage once, but we don't bother with it much now for dogs." Instead he prescribed a krill pill daily, which seemed to help a tiny bit. Euthanasia was looming and so I took things into my own hands and injected dog with B12, and a month later with a ml of my BForte. There was quite a bit of improvement after the B12, but after the BForte the improvement was huge, and it only took a few days. Dog is nearly blind but he can find his way around the house again, can support himself in a squat to relieve himself, and trots about the house now, in and out of rooms, instead of staying in one place or walking slowly, painfully and shakily. He can also go for 40 minute walks now whereas before we were just taking him on his little trembling legs to the end of the block. It is miraculous and wonderful. I had to look at diagrams of where to inject and it was really challenging due to his wizened little muscles, but it worked. We feel as if we have got our old friend back. 
That is marvellous for your dog and you ! Well done to you for being so enterprising .👍. 🏅
Interesting, now that I read your story my dog who passed a couple years ago I realize had all the symptoms of B12 deficiency. We would watch her and wonder why she was going so literally crazy. she wobbled when she walked, she went blind. After many many vet visits and loads of cash she finally passed and to think it could have been a simple B12 shot.
Fascinating. Thanks for sharing. Lucky dog!
So interesting, why is it that doctors don't learn from farmers?? Or is that obvious!
It may be that the arrogance and ego of the doctor prevents them from learning from a farmer. I think maybe doctors look at farmers as uneducated and therefore how could they possibly lower themselves enough to learn anything from them?
Just a thought. I think farmers are brilliant and not just because I come from a family of farmers!
Yup, obvious. I also am from farming folk!!
Thanks for that article . Good to have all possible knowledge about B12 .
Thank you for the link !
Interesting. Well worth reading. Though, in some ways, why would we be surprised? Do we expect them to make it for no reason?
Note the last paragraph:
To make the findings, Wright's team created a chemical mimic of vitamin B12 that works just like the natural substance but which scientists can track more closely in living cells. Through a system called affinity-based protein profiling, Wright's group is able to tag the molecules to see precisely where they are active. Then the team uses techniques like mass spectrometry to identify and measure proteins of interest.
I'm wondering if that, or a similar chemical mimic, could be used to test for Pernicious Anaemia? Imagine taking some of it orally and then testing whether it got absorbed? Everything in urine has been absorbed - so sending some dried urine off to a mass spectrometer might just work. Even if that approach doesn't work, the mere existence of such a substance suggests possibilities.
Can PPI'S deplete b12 this much? 
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