Badly treated B12D(/PA?), can heart attack risk increase??

[eclilley]

A question relating to my brother this time. Can low B12 and not having it treated properly put you at greater risk of heart attack?

His B12 found at c.80, IF neg, no further investigations done, Summer 2018. Same GP surgery as me, sometimes even same GP (I have told them my bro has it too and they tune me out!)

He had 5 x loading doses, & then after 6 months onto 3-monthly injections, late 2018 & through 2019.

Injections STOPPED in 2020 (due to covid blah blah). He did mot take oral as he knew would not help & they said they would re-test during 2020. They told him ok when they did, he had started feeling rubbish again through.

He's tried getting jabs again, but they said no, but folate low so had him on 3 months of folic acid now.

Said they'd retest B12 in Sept and if low poss injections back. He has not researched and pushed like I have, has gone along with things a bit more.

He has now had a heart attack at the start of this week. I do not know much detail as yet, but I am told he had been getting a numb arm and leg for a while (no idea if he'd spoken to GP, but I suspect not knowing my brother).

He has high risk factors already : lifelong heavy smoker; stressed business- owner; not terribly healthy & active.

However, just thinking that untreated B12D can also raise your risk?? Raised homocysteine?? Am I right or am I getting muddled and seeing through the 'Red Mist' caused by the absolutely shocking dismissal of need to treat these B12D conditions?!

I feel so angry if that could even be a tiny additional 'cause'. Stopping injections that should be seen as essential!

And yet if it was his dog with a B12D he could walk into the same pharmacy to pick up a monthly prescription of the human B12 for his dog!!!

[wedgewood]

You are quite right in thinking that untreated vitamin B12 deficiency/ Pernicious Anaemia can result in heart problems . It results in high homocysteine levels which can damage blood vessels , which in turn can lead to blood clots ………… I am sorry to hear that your brother has had a heart attack. It’s more that possible that a high homocysteine level has contributed to this , plus the other life-style components that you mention . I hope he makes a good recovery . This recovery would undoubtedly be helped if he got regular B12 injections . If he fails to get them re-established , and it is so difficult to do battle with GPs when one is not well, do consider self-injecting . It’s easy and cheap . ( information obtainable on this forum should you so wish ). B12 ampoules can be obtained from certain very reliable German online pharmacies No prescription required in Germany for B12 ampoules .. Other supplies like needles , syringes , swabs and sharps boxes can be obtained in U.K. . I found a huge difference in my homocysteine levels before treatment ( 15) and after I had self injected at a regularity which kept me feeling well (6 which is a good level ) I need to inject weekly to keep symptoms at bay , but because of lack of treatment early enough , am left with an irreversible symptom .

Best wishes to you and your brother .

[eclilley in reply to wedgewood]

Thank you Wedgwood for your help, as ever. I thought that was right, but also I know that his smoking is his biggest factor.

I just spoke to my brother, & added below re left-sided tingling etc he'd been having. GP did not think B12..... just have folate.

When he is a bit better I will talk to him more. I did ask if the specialists said anything, mostly they told him that his arteries were clogged and stop smoking! They fitted a Stent (sp.?!). It is very early days so he will have more results & follow ups I am sure, but will be interesting to know homocysteine level if they tell him.

Really, it makes me SO angry. Isn't "Do No Harm" supposed to be etched on their foreheads?!

[eclilley]

Spoken to my brother & he had been getting tingling, weird, 'wet', numb sensation down his leg for ages, since starting jabs before, and then worse again & also in his arm more recently. He had seen GP this year, who didn't relate it to B12, & he had finally been referred for nerve conduction study on it (he was supposed to ho the day he had heart attack).What he described is very much what I would describe, and I'm sure lots of others, as typical B12 symptom?

[wedgewood in reply to eclilley]

Yes certainly one of many B12 deficiency symptoms ( there are about 20 - No one person gets them all of course - just a little “pick and mix” selection ! ) The great thing about B12 injections is that even if B12deficiency turned out not to be the reason for the numbness , absolutely NO HARM. will be done by them , unlike many pharmaceutical drugs ) They cost very little and take 5 minutes of a nurses’ time . ( my self- injection costs me about £1.60 everything included Beauty clinics charge about £60.00 )

If his homocysteine level is tested , then you can ask for the result , or get a print-out of it .

[eclilley in reply to wedgewood]

I know, it is very frustrating. I had/have a LOT of the pick n' mix symptons, as per various previous posts.I have been getting nowhere really, since March, with getting them to get to bottom of some things - nerve pain in head & in right shoulder/arm/hand, odd shooting, stabbing & niggling pains in legs and other places. Had been going along with them a bit to try & 'softly softly' get to the point that " well it's probably haywire B12 " (they don't think it can be, I am convinced it is).

I have a load of other symptons back since having jabs stopped & then restarted but only 3-months.

I wrote and said if latest blood tests ok, considering all these symptoms, could EOD jabs be tried as a "therapeutic trial" as a next step in trying to work out what's wrong, & that it's a "no harm" option. And if they couldn't I felt I had no other option but to consider SI.

Silence really. Told got to wait for her to hear back as already written to haematologist (I have v low hopes from that). At least have nerve conduction study requested now, but specific to wrist for carpal tunnel. I think have got them to do neurologist referral too, fibally, as I said the doctor who did my 1st vaccine last week was very surprised I hadn't already seen one (which he was).

I am going to write another letter and am going to get together for SI - but I have v stressful court case happening next Weds so need to get past that....

[Nackapan]

I'm really sorry to hear this. I hope your brother has a good recovery.

And everything done to support him after.

[Jillymo]

I am also experiencing problems and told by my Dr she needs to retest in a months time. I have Aps ( sticky clotting blood ) and have a CT booked for next week to look at my enlarged Aorta ( heart )

From my understanding but please dont quote me once on medication for B12 the guidlines state no further tests to be carried out as they would not be accurate. ( I am not medically trained )

The following might be of interest I wasn't aware B12 could cause such symptoms as the ones listed and I do not want to be put at risk so batted to my Gp ------

Untreated B12 deficiency can cause vascular disease, including stroke, myocardial infarction, pulmonary embolism, and deep vein thrombosis, because this deficiency causes hyperhomocystinemia.

[eclilley]

If nothing else, it has given me another thing to write (carefully) in my next letter to GP about me and their lack of finding out and treating sufficiently, and I think has also given me the final impetus to give up trying to get more frequent from GP & get sorted to SI !

Thank you for your good wishes. We have told him for anout 40 yrs to stop smoking... hope he now will have no excuses.

[Hidden in reply to eclilley]

Really dont know what to say only 🤞 for you both

[Cherylclaire Forum Support]

Right back at the beginning, I gave up smoking. I had really wanted to and was cutting down slowly- but knew that this might all be blamed on smoking if I did not stop. So it gave me the push to finally do it for good. It was easy for me once I had a very clear reason.

Consequently, only one person has ever tried to blame smoking for any of my symptoms - a haematologist decided that my memory and cognitive problems and my air-hunger were all due to being an ex-smoker and starving my brain of oxygen ! Even my GP laughed when I told her that.

It gives them reasons to ignore life-changing symptoms that should by now be recognisable as possible B12 deficiency. Gradually, they could all be explained away: IBS, depression, health anxiety, fibromyalgia, diet/smoking/drinking, poor oral hygiene, mental health issues,,,,,,,

or scooped up and looked at in the round, which is difficult as NHS so compartmentalised and symptoms and treatment so poorly understood, but ultimately this is the job of a GP.

Vital to get a really good one.

[prillyb12]

I just watched a medical lecture on Youtube about treating patients with complicated issues. The first and foundational things have to be taken care of....life style, diet, exercise mental attitude, nutrition. Your brother needs to consider all of these things in recovering his health.

[eclilley in reply to prillyb12]

Indeed! I am hoping he has been 'scared' enough that smoking is now a no-brainer. He has been a tricky one on that for 40+ years! He is already talking about better/right food, and his partner will make sure more of that (I think she already tried!). He says he feels a bit like he talked himself into it happening- he was well into laying plans to sell his business & property, early-retirement, less stress, smaller house, as he felt it was now or never....

I am younger -45 - non-smoker, non-drinker, more healthy diet-wise, though not an exerciser (trying to slowly start, but it is so hard when exhausted by B12D), but a LOT of stress esp right now & over the last year or so.

It's certainly a wake up for doing more of the right thing, and now for not waiting but biting the bullet to self-inject!

[Leils]

Yes.

And / or co vid va x

My Mum had low B12 and had a heart attack. She was on 3 monthly B12 but by that point had stopped eating and was smoking a lot (fed up)

I'd try and get healthy food into him. Write to GP.

Vitamin D and magnesium are also relevant for heart issues.

Meat and veg. Keep sugar low.

Best wishes